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USA ... DC ORGANIZATIONS 2025 PRINCIPLES FIRST SUMMIT Principles First: Checks, Balances, and Breaking Points: Can the Constitution Hold? George Conway with former Congresswoman Barbara Comstock and Gregg Nunziata of the Society for the Rule of Law Original article: Peter Burgess COMMENTARY This was a fascinating conversation. Peter Burgess
Checks, Balances, and Breaking Points: Can the Constitution Hold? Principles First Feb 25, 2025 1.87K subscribers ... 3,377 views ... 211 likes This panel was held at the 2025 Principles First Summit, featuring George Conway and Gregg Nunziata of the Society for the Rule of Law, and former Congresswoman Barbara Comstock. Support our work: https://www.principlesfirst.us/suppor... Transcript 0:00 good morning I was going to ask you if you're all pumped up but I think the dog did that for me so um my name is Robert Benton I have been at three principal's first uh conferences and I'm he I originally from Texas you always have to say that but about 20 years I've lived here in DC um today I would like to introduce our next panel um first of all we have Barbara comto a former um congresswoman from the 10th District of Virginia um and and then we have a slight replacement judge lck's plane did not take off this morning so um well you can't say that one so we have Greg so Greg nun who is the executive director of the um I was about to say it wrong the society for the rule of law is here with us and [Applause] U uh and then also we have a very um sedate and um measured person to kind of fill in for judge letic um noted 1:04 constitutional lawyer George Conway take away all right well so I'm I'm moderating this supposedly and uh I'd like to thank all of you for coming out here it is just amazing to see the crowd here and how numerous it is and how excited it is and and how vifer it is vifer it is and I've spoken to some of you I want to speak to more of you and I just know how what good people you are and I'm so proud to be part of this organization so I want to just briefly introduce um Greg Greg is the president of the society for the rule of law uh which is an organization that we originally called checks and balances which is actually the title of this panel um and it you know we're we're the we're the conservative and libertarian lawyers who took the fork in the road 2:01 and went the right way okay and Greg I mean Greg is a perfect example of somebody who took the fork in the road and went the right way he he is a longtime member of the conservative legal movement he served as Chief uh councel a chief uh nominations counsel to the Senate Judiciary Committee under Senator Arlin Spectre he was count was an advisor to the Senate policy committee the Republican Senate policy committee he was uh a councel to to Senator Marco Rubio um and and now he you know and he and he and he's been a a Washington he's he's a recovered lawyer like all the rest of us on this panel and we recruited him desperately to run the society for the rule of law because the rest of us know nothing no know nothing about running anything other than our 3:03 mouths so um Greg is is here he's filling in for judge ludig but um so you have to be a little more pessimistic than you normally are I'll try I'll try Okay Doom Gloom okay and on my right is the um unmatchable Barbara comto and Barbara kto you know I I've known barbar since the 1990s when we were both part of a very small group that wasn't really a group and wasn't really cohesive but it was called by someone whose name I forget the vast right-wing conspiracy and it wasn't fast and at that time Barbara was the Bete Noir of the Clinton administration because she was Chief counsel of the Senate government off house house house government reform and operations committee or something like that right 4:04 yeah the Burton committee we all knew it as and they were continually investigating weird goings on over at the White House and she drew the enmity of many people over there because she was so such a staunch fighter and then she went on to do greater things she she ran she decided to go into electoral politics she became a member of the Virginia House of delegates and she's the same same she was the same person then that she was in the 90s and then she went on to represent the 10th congressional district in Virginia uh for a number of years and she was considered to be one of the most productive and and legislators in the house of United States House of Representatives until the current uh debacle came along and it was no longer good to be a solid conservative you had to um Kiss the Ring of the then president of the United States during what I call show one and so she 5:04 failed to do that and now she's here with us and that's our great benefit and I want just want to say I mean she and I were it's like I feel a kinship to Barbara I didn't know really know her that well in the 1990s but um you know our views have not changed right we we on policy matters if you go check check check check check we believe in the same things we believed then and we believed in the reason why we became such you know I I ended up kind of spurring the impeachment of Bill Clinton by representing Paul by writing briefs for Paula Jones we you know we thought he was a bad guy because he was a liar Clinton and because he was he forced himself upon women and then he was just you know this was not proper content for the president of the United States he's an angel okay we did not change we are the two consistent people in this country supported all the we support yeah I support like you got an impeachment I'm 6:01 there um so anyway um it's really great to have this panel and and we also have Clyde flyde the Corgi uh we heard we had a little incident yesterday with the proud boys he is our security he will he will lick them to death and he is also so he is our um our mascot Doge I mean dog and and he is 50 times smarter than the president of the United States and you think it's more than that don't you yes all right so our panel is about American constitutionalism and where it's going where it is how bad is it going to get and will the checks and balances hold and that's a very very disturbing topic um I it's a very difficult topic and I just want I'm 7:04 going to start with uh our former member of the of of the article one branch here where are we how bad is it and where are we going and what are we going to do about it and you've got 30 minutes well uh listen uh article one branch needs to do a little bit of its own you know do some homework uh recently there was a member I believe he's a member from a freshman from Alaska and he said something to the effect of I can't do anything you know kind of remarkable um in you know the House of Representatives only has about a three vote margin and he's telling his constituents I can't do anything as doge is coming in here and just you know the guy is using a uh chainsaw you know the the glasses with the chainsaw blindly cutting everything now certainly we you know there's always 8:01 room to cut and to do things and you can do that but the article one branch should be involved they should have a role in this they actually set up a doge committee which they voted not to have the Doge guy come and testify in front of them so you have this guy who's unelected you know they used to complain about unelected bureaucrats so you have the unelected Doge guy who they're now saying isn't head in court they actually said oh no he's not the head of it even though the president said he is the head of it and then they have these kids uh like what is you know one of the 19-year-old Big Balls um who I think is the grandson of a KGB agent they recently found out um and they say oh don't worry we vetted them but we know from Trump one they really don't vet people because John Kelly found when John Kelly the chief of staff the second Chief of Staff came in nobody was really being vetted and he had to kick out a 9:05 lot of people and we know there's no John Kelly there anymore so who knows how they're vetting people basically if the president just wants to say I bless thee and you're vetted that's that's the vetting they're doing so we can only you know who knows how they're being vetted probably not being vetted but at any rate the guy saying I can't do anything is wrong um so let me just give you one example of how um they could be doing something and fortunately the State Attorneys General are doing something um they had this NIH you know they're across this going in and saying we're going to cut these NIH funds um back when I was still in Congress 1718 um The Heritage uh F Foundation uh they came up with this idea this is one of these project 2025 things where they think we can just go in and cut how they do the NIH funding and they came in and gave a big pitch on how they should do this they thought they knew it all and 10:05 all of these various institutions came into Congress and explained why Heritage was wrong and why there's different ways that different institutions do their funding and we had about 240 plus Republicans in the house then and obviously had the Senate and we looked at that very carefully and realize that different institutions and different universities have different ecos systems because there's large universities there's small universities there's whole you know uh businesses and ecosystems built around them for example in Alabama Senator Shelby who uh was the chairman of the Appropriations Committee he had built up a huge ecosystem in Alabama around NIH funding and had lots of money in there and lots of jobs and was building up all of this and in two you know since 2014 um when n ging said hey we need to double NIH funding because we want to 11:04 cure things like diabetes and Alzheimer because they are huge drivers of the federal budget and if we cure diabetes or get you know better treatments for diabetes and Alzheimer's the things that are driving the budget and busting the budget you're going to have a huge you know it's going to come down and of course those are the things you know if you have diabetes those are the amputations that's what's you know right now Alzheimer's is just set to explode and if you have somebody with Dementia or Alzheimer's in your life you know what a burden that is so we said we want to double the cost of Alzheimer's funding so at any rate we looked at all of that pitch that Heritage gave back then and not only did we say no to that we said hell no we aren't changing the funding and we put into law you cannot 12:00 change the funding without Congress coming in and specifically changing the law and guess who signed that billal Donald Trump and you think he read the bill yeah well he of course he didn't know what he was signing you know but useful idiot signed the bill and every year since then they've signed the bill saying you cannot change that in law so eight years since then it has been signed into law that you cannot change that formula so when they come in and Chainsaw Massacre guy with his Shades not knowing what he's doing says we're going to do that he doesn't know what he's doing it's right so all the Democrat AGS filed their you know uh in court and it's already been stopped so it's been stopped but they they're the only ones who did it the Democrat a g s 13:00 and in their briefs they said okay we're going to stop it but if you don't file it it's only stopped in the Democrat States so in my state of Virginia the Republican AG who certainly doesn't want to cross King Trump it's not been stopped in Virginia so our whole ecosystem and all our NIH funding is at risk and down in Alabama their funding is also at risk because they're scared to go up against King 13:29 Trump I hate to interrupt but this is what I do um we have ecosystem 13:36 level but we have a more Global level or Universal level the universe of 13:44 democracy couple questions there I mean I I I hear what you're saying about members of Congress Bas saying what can 13:50 we do and and I and we saw Chuck Schumer 13:55 the other day saying Congress should do this it's like oh yeah you know anybody in congress 14:02 yeah you should talk to them but fortunately the AGS know and actually like Jeff Jackson in North Carolina was 14:08 a member of Congress so he knows this and if you're in North Carolina you've got an awesome AG let me defend the 14:15 supine article one branch how can okay so what does Artic 14:21 what what does Congress do they pass laws if Trump decides hey we're not going to obey those laws does it really 14:27 help to pass another law saying Thou shalt obey the laws that we have previously passed so what is it can that 14:32 they can do seriously well they I mean everyone who's there who is there last year no they passed this particular Bill 14:40 and there's well just law well well you as the people need to remind them 14:45 because there's there's example and example of this where we've actually discussed these bills do you have any 14:51 people in mind yeah so you need to go back and talk about so all a lot of these things 14:57 have been discussed and debated like NIH funding and we've decided we want to 15:03 cure these diseases and this is something we want to spend more money on so that in the long term we can save 15:09 ourselves a lot of heartbreak and save our fam's heartbreak this is what we want to invest and spend money on so Mr 15:17 crazy guy why don't you go take care of the children you aren't you you aren't 15:23 spending your money on and uh deal with that let's um let let let's have Greg 15:28 come here and and I want to just focus you in on do we have a constitutional system 15:37 where the president has decided he can ignore statutes of Congress and appoint 15:44 somebody who doesn't even read the statute of Congress doesn't care about that 15:49 um and what can what can what can they do and what is do it come down to the courts and then that raises the question 15:55 of will he this man who has basically running rough shot over any every 16:04 statute you can imagine everything from you know uh the constitution in fact 16:09 Birthright citizenship Appropriations bills what happens when the courts tell 16:14 him you can't do that and he's going to say well why should I listen to you I don't listen to our I don't listen to to 16:20 Congress yeah well thank you George first thing uh and I think you you're both getting at this we need to continue 16:26 to make just a fundamental case for the basics of our Constitution and the rule of law and American democracy because 16:33 people are forgetting it members of Congress are forgetting it but more importantly the voters who send them there are forgetting it it's part of our 16:39 project of the society for the rule of law I was speaking at a a prestigious law school just this week and a law 16:45 student these are these are young kids now uh whose kind of entire Consciousness has been in the Trump era 16:51 uh asked me a question which seemed pretty simple to me but it was sincere he said conservative student he said 17:00 it seems today that politics is all about winning and the legal part is 17:05 about getting the winds to stick how do we convince people that the law or the Constitution matters for their own sake 17:13 and that they should be restraining principles on our desire to win and it's all well and good to worry about 17:20 Alzheimer's funding and this funding and that funding but we can't spend money on everything how do we decide is it just a 17:27 unilateral you of a dictator or is it a process where 17:36 you persuade people who get elected to congress to compromise or to turn around 17:43 and change things what what do we do congress makes the laws and it's a it's a divided country and to make a law you 17:49 need to convince people on the other side to come at least part of the way with you and that's a good thing uh for America and we should all believe in it 17:56 and we should get voters to vote on it uh to where that's a longer term project 18:01 right now we're not there uh but we need to kind of recover our first principles as a country uh in the near term yeah I 18:08 mean I think we are heading to a situation where we're going to have to depend on the courts uh I'd love to have 18:14 your thoughts on this George I mean I'm still reasonably optimistic about our Judiciary I think okay that you're not 18:20 filling in no I mean look I I've had criticisms but for the most part let me 18:25 just say let me just do my judge luding it's 18:30 over okay there we go for the most part the first time Dr Trump nominated normal 18:36 conservative judges and I hear from very conservative federal court judges all 18:43 the time that are Greatful for the work we're doing the St for the rule of law and have real concerns about where we're 18:48 headed I think you're going to see a different kind of person nominated by Trump this time uh so I'm very worried 18:54 about that Justice Eileen Cannon yeah but because they won't have hearings here's the problem you know they set up 18:59 this Doge committee but then they won't have hearings you aren't seeing the discussion of what should be cut because 19:06 if you had a discussion you know I mean every day they stand up and say things like oh we're spending $100 million on 19:14 uh condoms in in Gaza which of course is false it the the money that was spent 19:20 was spent on condoms in Africa to stop AIDS now you can decide whether you 19:26 think that's valuable or not that's money that um has been spent uh you know over the past 20 years to prevent AIDS 19:34 and that is you know we again we debated that and we have supported that on a bipartisan basis and Republicans have 19:40 supported that if they want to have a discussion in a hearing and decide whether they like that or not have that 19:46 discussion Trump has also been standing there saying we are giving Social Security payments to people who are 150 19:53 years old that is absolutely false but he keeps standing at the podium with the 19:58 chainsaw guy making these claims that we are making payments to people who are in 20:03 the system who are you know 120 or 150 and we know that is false if we had 20:10 hearings the adversary process where you have Democrats and Republicans but you actually had to show receipts and facts 20:18 that's what I did when I was a chief counsel people actually had to sit there and you'd say to somebody okay margorie 20:25 Taylor green show your facts you don't just get to stand there at a Podium with 20:32 you know our our latest press secretary who makes claims and and doesn't have 20:38 any facts to State it these guys won't have hearings when they had the hearings 20:43 for our the the secretaries that they've now put in there they wouldn't even have 20:49 a second round of questions they did five minutes and then like oh who boy we are not going to have a second round of 20:55 questions with these clowns we cannot survive a second round of to the question the bigger question because I'm 21:01 trying to elevate it that's what Congress is for aate is 21:07 terrified to have a debate they don't have debates they cut off debate they're 21:13 try they are just you know giving up their authority to Donald Trump we have 21:19 an abdicating yeah they're abdicating abdicating so if they don't want to be there then maybe the first thing that 21:24 should be cut is their budgets because I think Adam kininger has pointed out if you look at his uh TW his Twitter 21:31 feed they have increased their budgets tremendously under Republican control 21:37 Congress has their budgets are a lot bigger than when I was there and I can tell you our budgets were fine when I 21:43 was there they have increased their salaries they get another they get a big allowance to be able to pay for 21:49 themselves to have a bigger allowance while they're there and because they were they weren't making enough money 21:54 folks they said they didn't have enough money to live on and now they're getting bigger salary allowances bigger staff 22:00 allowances but they're not doing anything let me Farge in again with two follow-up 22:06 questions one is in the past we have 22:13 seen part uh Congress people of the president's party democrat or republican 22:21 push back on the White House because they're an independent Branch the framers believed that having independent 22:29 legislative branch independent from the executive not a Westminster system would 22:35 result in conflicting power centers so that you could push back on the executive question first question is 22:43 what happened to the Republicans why don't they have spine why are they so afraid of even raising the smallest 22:49 disagreement with this President that's point one and question two 22:55 is where's the opposition and what can the opposition I do to hold it they 23:01 can't hold hearings of their own can they but what what can they do to 23:07 restore the debate that is supposed to happen in the article one instit um 23:15 Trump has put out Story I mean made it very clear as as Elon that he they will primary anyone who disagrees with them 23:22 anyone who gets out of line and a few who at the beginning a few Senators who 23:28 weren't to support the nominees um Heth was one of the first 23:33 that they were maybe not going to support for obvious reasons um Trump 23:39 made a very public showing of announcing hey who would like to primary this 23:46 particular senator who was maybe going to vote against and that Senator got in 23:51 line and it wasn't good enough for Trump that the senator got in line Trump then 23:57 went out to the press and put out the story that he had gotten the senator in 24:02 line by going out and making this very public showing so that is how they do it 24:09 not only do does he go out and say hey who wants to run against this Senator 24:15 who's up in two years but then he has to go humiliate them in public by putting 24:21 out that story and that's done by Trump it's done by his henchmen campaign 24:27 people and um then it's done by Elon by threatening he'll put the money out 24:32 there what can the Democrats do then well the Democrats should highlight that um they can highlight that in the 24:38 hearings but of course the hearings are truncated so Democrats probably should have some hearings of their own they 24:45 should democrats should definitely have more Town Halls themselves and they should highlight these kind of issues um 24:53 I know in Virginia my Senators well they they did a tet Town Hall 24:58 but they've also started doing town halls and they're they're huge and they've pointed out that they're much 25:04 larger than they've ever been before and uh they should be just telling these 25:10 stories and they should be telling the stories of these issues that they've voted voted on before and how this is 25:17 and and get local and how this is impacting no yeah I just I I wanted and they should also tell about the things 25:23 that they're willing to cut because there are things in government that can be cut the things that Republicans 25:28 aren't cutting because Republicans are now going to keep the things that they want for their districts but then not 25:36 you know so not cut their favorite things while they're going to go after you know things in republ in in Democrat 25:45 districts and I don't want to let Republicans off the hook for sure but this the the weakness of Congress is a 25:51 bit of a bipartisan problem one of the most tragic things of the last several years to me in this whole area was after 25:57 the Trump term there was a bipartisan effort to put some limits on Presidential Power and to restore 26:04 congressional powers uh a couple bipartisan team of former White House councils teamed up former White House 26:10 former executive branch lawyers teamed up to do this Bob Bower Jack Goldsmith uh there was a package of bills that 26:15 Democrats were champing in Congress called the protecting our democracy act as soon as there was a democrat in the 26:21 president they lost interest they had a democrat in the White House and Democrats were all of a sudden opposed 26:27 to to strengthening Congress again and putting checks in the presidency Americans need to stop thinking about 26:33 politics as just a team sport I know all of you in this room understand that we need a strong Congress we need a limited 26:41 executive didn't Marco Rubio uh he did the he did the bill um about not being 26:48 able to pull out a NATO right did he what was was that bill yeah they he led an effort to to pass a law saying the 26:54 president can't uniformally unilaterally pull out of NATO without congress's support okay so let me let's let me move 27:02 the subject to the third branch to you think I'll ask you third 27:10 branch I believe I'm going to throw this out there because I I've been beating this drum for a few weeks now is that 27:17 due to this man's and president musk's um you know 27:25 psychology and president co-president Trump's or assistant president Trump's 27:31 mentality they don't think they're subject to rules they are disobeying laws why do we have any reason to 27:39 believe and right now it's very likely that they are evading court 27:45 orders by saying one the right hand doesn't know what the left hand is doing we're trying to do this and it turn 27:51 they're making representations to the court including the representation about what Elon is and what whether he is the 27:58 administrator of Doge and whether he's just an Anita Dunn who just sits in her office in the West Wing okay it 28:06 doesn't what do we do you think he's going to obey court orders when he 28:11 starts losing some of these cases he win some of them he's going to lose some of them yeah no I think he is going to lose some of them uh 28:18 and so I don't in my judgment this president has done some imprudent 28:25 things uh you mean's he's ALS the the the the the 28:33 convicted criminal who's in the White House yeah so he's also he's also doing unconstitutional and probably legal 28:39 things and I think it's really important for us particularly the lawyers among us to try to tease those things out it's 28:45 not to say that you shouldn't oppose the president's unwise things or bad policies feel free but understand what 28:51 is really a challenge to our system or what is really a a a legal problem or a constitutional problem and there's a 28:57 host of them here uh and I and I think the courts are going to see that uh problems the legal 29:03 problems morph into constitutional problems absolutely because if the president decides you know the statute 29:09 says X you shall expend money on Y and then then it also says and you can't 29:15 change that unless you get Congress to change the law which it shouldn't have to say anyway 29:21 but why what that's a constitutional problem yeah that the president is for 29:28 forsaking and abating the very first thing he's told to do in Article 2 which is to 29:36 Faithfully execute the laws so where's is the Constitution 29:43 over not yet uh not yet no and how close are we I mean I think we're close right 29:49 I mean I think that the president and his allies are trying to delegitimize the courts uh they are trying to 29:56 condition the public and their supporters to accept the White House defying a a court order and we can't let 30:02 them do that and I think it's really important to get look here's the thing we say at the society for the rule of 30:08 law that we're a group of conservative lawyers who put the Constitution and the rule of law American democracy above our 30:16 partisan or policy preferences that shouldn't even be that controversial it's like a minority position now I mean I think if you talk 30:21 to conservative lawyers 10 years ago and you laid out that statement they say of course that's what conservative lawyers do of course those things President 30:28 Obama from doing just that exactly exactly so I mean we need to to to be 30:33 out there and uh uh get people engaged and make the case and draw red lines now 30:38 uh because they're going to try to get away with whatever they can get away with and and I I think it's important to get people and groups and leaders and 30:45 institutions on the record about those red lines now uh before we get into a fight where partisans go to their 30:52 Corners I mean we ought to be saying loudly how destabilizing and dangerous it would be for a president to defy an 30:58 order of the Supreme Court but haven't we and all these executive orders they aren't law so if you're a conservative 31:04 and you want conservative policy all these things that are being done by executive order you're not getting the 31:11 policy changes you want and these so you're you know if you're concerned 31:17 about having things change like and then give you another example like I mean I've worked on anti trust law and I've 31:23 been I the past four years I was bashing the Biden Administration on their bad antitrust laws I thought 31:31 Gary Gensler um and uh at the SEC was bad I thought the justice department and 31:38 what they were doing and Lena Khan at the FTC I thought they had horrible policies I think uh Mark Cuban yesterday 31:45 was saying that he told Gary Gensler you're you're gonna elect uh uh Trump 31:51 because of you know what what he was doing um on I guess with uh crypto and I 31:57 I agreed with that because they were doing you know anti-free Market things so I agreed on that but guess who just 32:04 endorsed the uh uh what is it the the new merger guide the new merger 32:10 guidelines that Biden Administration put in place just last year right they just got put in place last year um I went to 32:17 the Scalia Law School uh just last year to a uh whole you know program on how 32:24 awful these merger guidelines were and the Trump Administration has now said 32:30 hey we're keeping the merger guidelines so if you care if you care about 32:36 conservative policy which the antitrust policy that was in place before the 32:41 Biden Administration before the Trump Administration was bour antitrust consumer welfare policy I'm getting a 32:48 little nerdy here but judge bour who we all love here who for years we had get 32:54 from the 80s forward through the Obama Administration that was the antitrust 33:01 policy consumer welfare standard which was very good free market policy that 33:06 allowed all the tech policy that you know we live with and that thrives that 33:11 was the policy that we had that was conservative all that doesn't go to the checks and balances well the check and Balan let me let me Mr Conway may I ask 33:19 the real world question no not yet well but I was just going to my 33:24 point was going to say that everybody thought with Trump you were going to have more mergers but now what's going 33:29 to happen is the only way you're going to get mergers is if you it's going to be transactional with Trump and he wants 33:36 you to it's going to be you have to the extortion aspect that's let me just say it's generally 33:44 within this the the authority of the executive branch to decide well we want 33:50 to do more on merger enforcement you want to do less on merger enforcement we want to tweak the merger guidelines it's 33:58 part of their job to do that but what I'm what I want to get focused on is 34:06 Mike when when what I want to get focused on is what happens when they go 34:13 beyond or refuse go beyond what they're legally authorized to do or refuse to 34:20 carry out a duty that is statutorily or constitutionally imposed on them what do 34:28 we do then I mean this is this is all nice I mean but this isn't this isn't the Republic doesn't you know the the 34:36 the Republic isn't going to survive or fall on whether or not people are following Bob bork's um thoughts on the 34:44 in in his book The antitrust Paradox it's like the least of our problems well that's true but I just from from a 34:50 republican standpoint just pointing out you're not getting Republican policy with Donal Trump they don't care about policy that's true okay 34:57 thoughts that's a little sideline but look I mean it's just ultimately a test to the American people right I mean it should not be acceptable for the 35:04 president to defy an order of the Supreme Court and do about it I mean we got to be I mean that's I've been trying 35:11 to get to that what are we going he's going to do this okay I'm I'm just going to say he will violate court orders and 35:20 once he violates court orders what the do we 35:26 do we have to what do we do we have to hope there's a five to majority it 35:32 doesn't matter he's going to tell the Supreme why should he obey the Supreme Court 35:37 why I mean I think it's ultimately it's ultimately right that that that there need that people need to be in the streets people need to be uh strongly 35:44 reacing against and we really do need conservatives and Republicans to be in that number for this to work right I 35:50 mean you uh so well and you are going to have midterm elections and you are going 35:56 to have that's the check and balance it's going well yeah well you are going to have congression you're going to have 36:02 a Virginia election this year you're going to have a check and balance and that is what happened in his first term 36:08 already he is as as Sarah and Longwell pointed out last night he is he is down 36:15 he is doing the worst of any president except himself be in his first term um 36:21 and he's he's down in the mid 40s and so he's going to start dragging people down and when he starts dragging all the 36:27 other people down with him that's when they that's when the members of Congress start panicking they're starting to see 36:35 their constituents get upset those Town Halls start scaring people now I can tell you they won't really get it until 36:44 sometime next year I can tell you these guys they they all live in a red bubble they don't really get it what'll happen 36:51 is you know if if Virginia goes blue again they'll be like well that's Virginia they never voted for Trump 36:58 they're going to wait until things go into next year then they're going to start seeing their polls go then some of them are going to start retiring and 37:05 it's going to the polls will start going a little South and a little South and a little South they really aren't going to get it until you know sometime next 37:13 summer and next fall and that's why you just need to be organizing now you need to make sure somebody's running in all 37:20 of those swing seats and all and that's that's what's going to happen and then there's going to be it's checks and 37:26 balances and then when you have a Democrat house that's when people will 37:31 have to come in and will have to sit in there and that's when they'll have to actually answer questions and that will 37:37 be the only check on but here's the problem what they can do is between now 37:42 and then is damaging yes well not NE it goes beyond that let's say you're right 37:48 and I agree with you his poll numbers are going to drop we're going to see more of these Town Halls where 37:54 Republicans are getting reamed and these Republicans sooner or later 38:00 cowards that they are will will will will start buckling to some extent 38:07 although the more extreme magot types will be funded to run against them and 38:17 will be acting as a counterforce because those people are still there okay they don't care whether the government of the 38:23 United States is destroyed but I'd say 2026 let's say we do make it somehow to 38:28 2026 5050 I don't know um and the Democrats get substantial majorities in 38:36 both houses of Congress although not 2third not 60 not not a a true super 38:46 majority you've got a president who's going to so what do they do pass laws president vetos them pass laws they 38:53 override The veto president ignores them 38:59 what then no I mean I don't have a good 39:06 answer right I mean it's it's a real problem our our country works best when our leaders have some sense of 39:13 stewardship and and and the inherence that they have and the obligation they have to their citizens it the the hope 39:19 our Founders had was in the in the branches checking each other which they're failing to do but ultimately it does rest on the American people I me 39:26 just does I mean it requires a massive you think about we've had 39:32 presidents before who've been overreaching in different Rays right uh FDR uh lots of people love them not my 39:38 favorite LBJ uh LBJ uh and they've been checked they've been checked they've been checked because they lost popular 39:44 support uh including their own party on important matters you know the uh FDR trying to impact the court this is 39:50 massive uh Rebellion uh including amongst Democrats about this dictatorial impulse and I think I hope that America 39:57 still has that somewhere in in in our lizard brain an understanding of the 40:02 fragility of Liberty and the importance of putting limits on uh government actors even if you might like the 40:08 direction that actor is pushing in and I hope I hope that's still there I mean that's that's that's what I'm what I'm 40:13 trying to argue for every day I and and that's where you know I'm glad we got that's exactly the point I wanted to 40:19 trying to get to here do we still have that spirit that spirit is in this room 40:26 for sure but the degree of moral apathy that we have seen 40:34 that has gotten us to this point where we actually have to worry that the 40:42 president is going to run rough shot and basically ignore and neuter the other 40:49 two branches of government and many Americans don't 40:54 understand why that would be a bad thing some of them they they many of the Americans think well that's a good thing I mean Congress doesn't do anything 40:59 anyway all they do is bicker and and the courts I mean the courts it's all political anyway I mean we these and 41:07 then there's just a bunch who just you know F fooling around on Facebook and 41:12 wor worrying about uh the you know who gets uh Emmys or whatever it's like 41:18 where where how do we wake up people to get them out to these Town Halls that's 41:25 a really it was really heartening to see that and then ultimately I I personally 41:31 believe even like now people have to be out on the shets the popular part the New York Post had a cover that said you 41:38 know Putin is not a dictator I mean the New York Post is pushing back on Trump no I think you know and people are put 41:45 you know and you see this it's not just here in the United States everywhere you know we have our German elections today 41:50 hopefully they they turn out okay but you have you know when you have the leading candidate in Germany is saying 41:56 hey we may have to go it alone and they're talking about working with France and with the UK about we'll come 42:03 together we'll help Ukraine and you have God bless you know zalinski you know we 42:08 heard from everybody yesterday how they're going to work together they're putting more money towards protecting 42:14 themselves because they're looking at what they have here so you know people are thinking of different ways to do 42:21 things if they have this you know horrible person that we have here as president but people are not going to 42:27 take this lying down they are going to get up and act and so that is the you 42:32 know do not accept this and you know don't be afraid of the bullies you know 42:38 we've got to stand up to the bullies and this it doesn't take everybody to do it 42:44 it doesn't take a majority to do it but you have to stand up to the bullies you know the the proud boys came in here 42:50 last night Trump is clearly emboldened the bullies to act and you just can't be 42:56 afraid of them that's what they want he has bullied Congress he's bullied his 43:01 own Republicans he's bullied the Democrats into thinking they're beaten 43:07 they I mean it's they've got a three- seat majority in the house it's not that many votes you don't have to change that 43:14 many in the house to win it back so I mean they've the Democrats need to get their act back together and and win 43:21 these seats you're going to have you know Governor's races and everything up you know nothing is ever as bad in 43:27 Politics As It Seems and nothing is ever as good we are a 50/50 country things 43:32 are going to snap back you know you just have to get people have to get out of this funk that you know somehow this guy 43:39 is Invincible he is not you know there are people out there that were are going 43:44 to turn this around and you know this 70 whatever nyear old guy who eats 43:50 cheeseburgers every day is not an invincible guy he's lazy so you know we 43:58 oh he's active he's golfing today he is physically active I think I think the popular resistance is important I also 44:04 be a maybe an insular uh DC elitist lawyer type uh there's also the elitist 44:11 part that I think is kind of important I mean George and I all three of us have been involved in the conservative legal movement for decades uh and it is just 44:19 dismaying where it's ended up today I mean conservative lawyers the conservative legal movement are meant to 44:27 be the Constitutional conscience of the right uh not as willing enablers and this is what we're trying to do to speak 44:34 to our fellow conservatives to to fight for these principles I've got you know it's it's thin reads to be hopeful about 44:40 but after what the Trump Administration did in New York with the mayor Adams prosecution I thought there were some really encouraging signs of conservative 44:47 lawyers who are basically prot Trump a lot more prot Trump than we are Danielle sass yeah 44:52 [Applause] yeah a number of principal people resigned who was the other the other 44:58 lawyer who wrote that letter fantastic head assistant on the case oh who said 45:04 you know that you only maybe you'll find a oh please if you haven't read that the 45:09 both or coward that that's your future two you know two conservative lawyers himself 45:15 was the fool in the yeah who clerked for you know Justice uh Roberts I mean I I worked on Justice Robert's confirmation 45:22 I worked on ao's confirmation but you had these two young lawyers who said we are not going to be your Stooges that is 45:29 awesome that there's your future you just need a few people like that all right we got 49 seconds left and Al so 45:36 I'll just question hold on let me let me just say one thing here and well we'll 45:43 take a question what's the question does Marshal Service enforce federal court orders yes the US Marshall service 45:50 enforces court orders that's a problem because the United States Marshall 45:57 service reports is part of it's an agency of the United States Department 46:04 of Justice they Swit loyalties te they've already they've already replaced the US maral server but let me finish here with the with in the few seconds we have left at the the bottom line is I believe and I know some people don't believe it or don't want to believe it but I've been talking to a lot of people when I pressed them they can't tell me why it's not true he will disobey court orders the litigation is important nonetheless because it's going to show in a Judicial opinions that we will be able to wave as we walk down Constitution Avenue that this Administration is completely contemptuous and completely ready to abrogate the rule of law but at the end of the day precisely for that 47:04 point the just the the the third branch has to rely on the second Branch the president of the United States which the president of the United States ostensibly controls who is charged with Faithfully executing those laws including those court orders enforcing those laws and he we have no reason to believe at the end of the day when push comes to shove that he will do that and that is when we need to take our copies of those orders and walk down the street with them and I want to thank you thank everybody we were out of time thank you all thank you so much

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