Date: 2025-08-20 Page is: DBtxt003.php txt00027205
US POLITICS
PROJECT 2025
ABC News In-depth | Four Corners: Former Department
of Justice attorney speaks out against Trump
AMERICA NEEDS TO WAKE UP TO THE DANGER AHEAD!
PROJECT 2025
ABC News In-depth | Four Corners: Former Department
of Justice attorney speaks out against Trump
AMERICA NEEDS TO WAKE UP TO THE DANGER AHEAD!
Original article: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jXE9Eh80JG4
Peter Burgess COMMENTARY
In my view the country ... that is the United States ... is in a very conflicted state. This can be ignored, but that is increasingly likely to be a bad decision. There are more and more signals that ignoring the signs that are in plain view will be a huge mistake.
Donald Trump has become more and more evil as he has grown older. I ran into him and his management entourage in Atlanta in the mid-1990s when his casino empire was collapsing. Everyone lost money except the Donald who gamed the bankruptcy laws with the assistance of well paid lawyers
Fast forward to the present time. Now Trump is trying to game the system again, but at a much bigger scale. His role in the events of January 6th (2021) is pretty clear, though he has not been held accountable in any meaningful way. What he does next will not be pretty!
I am optimistic that the Harris/Walz political campaign will win the upcoming Presidential election. As of this time, they have substantial momentum and it is increasingly likely, that they will win the election. But that will likely not be the end!
With an angry Trump in play, winning the election may not mean that Harris/Walz become President and Vice-President respectively. There are signs that Trump will likely pivot to anything and everything needed to stop the normal election process and replace it with a phony process that empowers state and local actors to disrupt the normal routines.
Trump is evil! He will stop at nothing ... and most of America has no idea how dangerous things have become!
Peter Burgess
ABC News In-depth
Jul 19, 2024
1.69M subscribers ... 282,337 views ... 13K likes
ABC is an Australian public broadcast service. Wikipedia
#ABCNewsIndepth #4Corners #Trump
Erica Newland served as an attorney at the Department of Justice under Donald Trump. It was her job to review executive orders for former president Trump to ensure they were lawful.
Newland claims many executive orders reflected ‘deep bigotries’ towards community groups and felt conflicted when working on orders that she believed might ‘harm others’.
The Tree of Life shooting at a synagogue in Pennsylvania was the turning point that pushed her to quit.
Newland believes the Trump administration was using the DOJ to leigitmise lies.
She now works for Protect Democracy, pushing against the Trump movement and the man she believes to be an authoritarian threat.
*This interview was conducted as part of the 2024 two-part ABC Four Corners documentary 'Retribution'. Watch Retribution now on YouTube: https://bit.ly/46avfir
CHAPTERS
- 00:00 - 'Democracy is for losers'
- 00:45 - Working for the Department of Justice
- 01:40 - ‘Ripping children from their parents’
- 02:35 - Patriotic duty
- 04:00 - 2020 election
- 05:20 - Helping make orders ‘technically lawful’
- 06:16 - Working from the inside
- 07:50 - Is Donald Trump an authoritarian threat?
- 08:30 - What do you make of Project 2025?
- 09:40 - Loyal soldiers
- 10:17 - What you need to do, to serve under Trump
- 11:23 - Are you concerned about environmental policy?
- 12:05 - Trump joked about being a dictator
- 13:20 - Civil servants in America
- 14:35 - “This is really, really terrifying”
- 16:20 - “Donald Trump is a showman”
- 17:00 - January 6, Capitol riots
- 17:50 - The path to authoritarianism
- 19:45 - Joe Biden
#ABCNewsIndepth #ABCNewsAustralia #4Corners #Trump
Transcript
- Democracy is for losers
- 0:00
- there's a saying democracy is for losers
- which means a democracy only works if
- the person who loses is willing to
- concede the election and support the
- legitimacy if not the policies of the
- person who wins the election Trump's
- understanding of the presidency is that
- the president is effectively an emperor
- he has no respect for Democratic Norms
- Democratic Customs or the constraints
- that are in our laws in the
- Constitutions
- [Music]
- my name is Erica nuland I was an
- attorney at the department of justice
- under Donald Trump and now I work for
- protect democracy where I try to protect
- our country from the authoritarian
- threat Eric and Yulan to start with tell
- Working for the Department of Justice
- me about your role when you were at the
- Department of Justice what did you do
- what was your focus I was at the
- Department of Justice from August of
- 2016 through November of 2018 and while
- I was there I was an attorney adviser at
- the office of legal council within the
- 1:00
- justice department and my job was to
- review the policies and plans that were
- coming from our executive agencies and
- from the White House to ensure that they
- were lawful the problem in the Trump
- Administration was that the findings
- that were coming across our desk were
- not always accurate and sometimes
- reflected deep bigotries can you give us
- an example of that so executive orders
- would come through about um immigrant
- populations or one that I didn't work on
- but that came through during my time at
- the office of legal council was the
- Muslim ban or the three iterations of
- the Muslim ban and and tell me about
- sort of the misgivings you had about
- some of these executive orders the
- department was engaged in a policy of
- ‘Ripping children from their parents’
- ripping children from their parents at
- the border we know this is family
- separation and there were multiple
- instances of presidential interference
- in the conduct of the
- department each of these represent
- presented to me a destruction of our
- 2:03
- Norms some were technically lawful only
- because we helped make them so as
- attorneys at the department and in that
- sense I've come to feel that we were
- complicit in the destruction of the rule
- of
- law while you were working on these
- executive orders coming out of the
- administration or the overal office
- itself you must have felt very
- conflicted oh yes when I was there and I
- was working on an order that where I
- felt the substance was going to hurt
- Patriotic duty
- people or harm people or just the
- rhetoric that the president and the
- government were using were going to harm
- people I was every day asking myself am
- I doing enough to push back how could I
- push harder if I haven't been fired yet
- then have I pushed hard enough um
- and and what how can I fulfill my my
- patriotic Duty and what I owe to the
- 3:02
- American people I felt honored to be
- able to help on behalf of the Department
- of Justice what I failed to fully
- recognize at the time was how good the
- administration was at co-opting the work
- that its lawyers were doing and using us
- to legitimize its lies so when we were
- nipping and tucking at those orders to
- make them lawful what we were also doing
- was helping perpetuate a form of
- misinformation for example about the
- threats that certain populations
- allegedly pose one of the challenges
- that confronts Department lawyers is how
- much are they representing the president
- in His official capacity versus how much
- are they representing him in his
- personal capacity and the Department's
- role is to represent him in his official
- capacity but it is easy for those lines
- to get blurred and this really
- crystallized for me actually a couple
- years after I left during the um the
- fights over the 2020 election results
- 2020 election
- 4:00
- you know the the way our laws work the
- Department of Justice couldn't defend
- Trump couldn't represent candidate Trump
- and so campaign lawyers had to do the
- work and the campaign lawyers were not
- as polished they were frankly not as
- excellent of lawyers as the lawyers at
- the Department of Justice and after four
- years of having Department of Justice
- lawyers do the president's dirty work
- for him um and and really seeing his
- work stand up in court once you had
- these kind of back Ventures having to
- represent his argument suddenly the
- courts weren't putting up with it
- anymore and that really identified for
- me how much of that legitimizing we had
- been doing you wrote about complicity
- yes you said we were complicit yes how
- were you
- complicit I was helping an
- Administration a president who did not
- have any concept of democracy who did
- not have any respect for the law
- 5:01
- La there were times when I was at the
- department we would hear the protests
- outside of our windows in fact I had
- colleagues from across the department
- who would sometimes go and join those
- protests and I both admired them for
- joining and felt heartbroken that here I
- Helping make orders ‘technically lawful’
- was working down the hall from the
- Attorney General of the United States
- and the best that we could figure out
- how to do was to join a protest or we
- could never figure out the right thing
- to say to stop a policy like family
- separation or a a policy like the Muslim
- ban and then we were bringing our skills
- and our talents and our judgment to the
- work product of the US government um and
- helping uh do all of this harm in a way
- that was either unlawful or technically
- 6:00
- lawful but only because we had worked to
- make it so and so I was responsible for
- that and that must have been hard for
- you that was extremely hard now I was
- balancing at the time the sense
- of who would replace me and is it better
- Working from the inside
- it's this age-old question right is it
- better to work from the inside or to
- push from the outside and at the time
- even as I recognized my complicity I
- also felt it was better to work from the
- inside in fact it was my my duty to do
- so I've come to see that differently but
- but that's how I I considered it at the
- time you're now out of the Department of
- Justice where are you now and what's
- what's this organization focused on I
- now work for protect democracy an
- organization whose mission is to prevent
- our government from declining into a
- more authoritarian form of government I
- represent uh some Capital police
- officers who were hurt during the riots
- 7:00
- on January 6th as they seek
- accountability against former president
- Trump for conspiring and producing that
- violence is Donald Trump an
- authoritarian threat to this country yes
- Donald Trump is an authoritarian threat
- to this country how so there's a
- Playbook that authoritarians use there
- are seven plays that authoritarians or
- would be authoritarians engage in to
- consolidate power and change a country
- from a democracy to an authoritarian
- state St here's what they are they aize
- executive Authority they politicize
- independent institutions they quash
- descent they spread misinformation they
- target vulnerable communities they
- corrupt elections and they Stoke
- violence Donald Trump has engaged in all
- seven of these if Donald Trump wins
- another term we will see some real
- Is Donald Trump an authoritarian threat?
- shifts in our society I think we can
- look to the leaders who Donald Trump
- wants to emulate so that's ergan uh
- 8:01
- that's Kim Jong-un that's xiin ping and
- the types of powers that they have and
- the ways that they quash descent um
- within their societies and we will see
- an abandonment of the post World War II
- order Donald Trump has been very clear
- that he does not want to support NATO or
- other alliances that have been used to
- help preserve democracies around the
- globe whether I can call it an
- institution or organizations perhaps
- that help him is this project 2025 yes
- What do you make of Project 2025?
- what do you make of project
- 2025 back when Donald Trump came to
- power in 2017 Donald Trump did not have
- the full infrastructure to help him
- achieve his authoritarian goals what has
- changed in the past four or eight years
- is that now there is this broader
- authoritarian infrastructure and pro
- Heritage foundations project 2025 is
- part of this authoritarian
- 9:00
- infrastructure so these think tanks
- whether it's the Heritage Foundation or
- what it's put together in Project 2025
- should be taken very seriously we should
- take them extremely seriously uh
- seriously and literally as as we now say
- um and we should and and I am my
- organization have read through their
- their promises and their plans and
- understand that this is their vision for
- America's future project 2025 is
- actually recruiting people and vetting
- people what can you tell me about that
- they have set out uh over the past few
- years to go ahead and create a list of
- Loyal soldiers
- people who they think will be loyal
- soldiers part of the genius of this and
- you give them credit where credit is due
- is that in doing this they have been
- very clear about what their expectations
- are for people who want highlevel
- government jobs and so they um can
- enforce a type of Orthodoxy on the
- 10:02
- political movement that would be hard to
- enforce otherwise obviously these people
- are vetted by project 2025 what sort of
- questions do they ask potential
- appointees well I've got my phone right
- here let me read you a few of those
- questions they ask potential appointees
- What you need to do, to serve under Trump
- to say that they disagree with the
- concept that the ginger wage Gap is the
- result of prejudice and discrimination
- they asked them to weigh on on whether
- the President should should be able to
- advance his or her agenda through the
- bureaucracy without hindrance from
- unelected federal officials and then
- they ask whether uh you agree that the
- federal government should recognize only
- two unchanging Sexes male and female as
- a matter of policy so what's were those
- sort of questions say to you about the
- sort of people the project 2025 wants to
- recruit they want people who are
- unswervingly loyal to the Trump agenda
- to his vision and to him as a person as
- well as to his and the movement's goal
- 11:01
- of subordinating um those who who don't
- look or sound like them if we lose the
- expertise of all of those public
- servants who are coming to work every
- day and bringing years if not Decades of
- knowledge we're not going to be able to
- function as a society that's extremely
- terrifying to me Donald Trump says one
- Are you concerned about environmental policy?
- of two things he wants to do on day one
- when he's going to be a dictator for
- that day only um is to drill drill drill
- have you got concerns about
- environmental policy I have
- extraordinary concerns about
- environmental policy both because I have
- young children and I worry about the
- world that they grow up in and because I
- look at the young voters today you know
- the generation of kids who are say 18 to
- 30 and for whom climate change is
- understandably um one of their top
- 12:00
- priorities it's they they correctly
- recognize it's an existential threat and
- so what did you think when Donald Trump
- Trump joked about being a dictator
- apparently jokingly said I'll be a
- dictator but for only day one only I
- thought that was a classic example of
- Donald Trump knowing how far to push the
- line to reveal how he understands the
- role of the president which is he thinks
- it should be a dictator and so he will
- move that window of acceptable conduct
- along so that next time he jokes about
- being a dictator for a week people won't
- blink an eye and then when he's actually
- something closer to a dictator for four
- years we'll say ah we saw it coming
- would America and its institutions
- permit him to be a dictator for any day
- of his
- presidency members of Congress have
- talked about how they take votes out of
- fear for their safety and their family's
- lives rather than because of what is
- right and so the combination of fear of
- 13:02
- hopelessness and
- resignation and of a sense of
- disempowerment will allow Donald Trump
- to make a pretty strong Headway in in
- his goals of of being a
- dictator let's talk about the importance
- of the Civil Service our civil servants
- Civil servants in America
- are spread throughout the country in
- fact about 80% work outside of the
- broader DC Metro Area they are our
- democracy in action they are politically
- very diverse um and diverse along other
- axes as well most civil
- servants understand that their job is to
- protect and defend the
- Constitution Faithfully execute the laws
- and work with the political appointees
- to help deliver on the president's
- agenda in a way that is lawful and
- 14:00
- constitutional and that's really really
- a key constraint what Donald Trump wants
- is are political stoes who will be loyal
- not to the Office of the President but
- to the person of the president and
- whatever his dreams or whims
- are what do you think Trump would do to
- the Department of Justice your old
- Department if he's reelected Donald
- Trump has promised that if he becomes
- president again he would harness the
- Department of Justice to go after the
- people he perceives as political enemies
- or as somehow disloyal and this is
- “This is really, really terrifying”
- really really terrifying because the
- Department of Justice holds what I think
- of as the most awesome power this
- awesome domestic power that the US
- government has which is the power to
- prosecute people for crimes to harass
- them with investigations even if they
- don't move forward with prosecutions and
- ultimately to throw them in prison and
- and to use that power to enact political
- 15:04
- retribution to quash descent would be to
- transform our country from one of rule
- of law to one of of autocracy lawyers in
- the Department of Justice are civil
- servants what do you fear for your
- former comrades or the people who are
- lawyers in the doj now if Donald Trump
- is president again I really worry that
- my former colleagues um will be harassed
- will be uh
- fired um or will be co-opted um
- sometimes just because they have to
- provide for their families and uh are
- working to maintain you know maintain
- their jobs and their careers but the
- result of that could be
- uh extraordinary um extraordinary abuse
- 16:03
- of
- authority he has indicated as I said
- that he wants a special prosecutor to
- look into Joe Biden should he win the
- presidency is it too far-fetched to
- suggest or too much of an orwellian
- Vision to say that there could be
- political show trials under President
- Donald Trump Mark
- “Donald Trump is a showman”
- I I certainly expect there could be
- political show trials under Donald Trump
- Donald Trump is a showman there is
- nothing he loves more than a reality TV
- show style assertion of power the
- question is whether our institutions
- those Attorneys at the Department of
- Justice uh and our judges will
- be strong enough to prevent that from
- happening and I think that's really an
- open question right now do you think he
- could either pardon himself or shut down
- investigations or cases against him we
- all expect that he would pardon himself
- yeah what do you think when Donald Trump
- January 6, Capitol riots
- 17:01
- calls uh the January 6 let's call them
- insurrectionists who've been convicted
- and sent to jail when he calls them
- hostages these are people who have been
- convicted of engaging in some of the the
- worst crimes that you can engage in in a
- democracy which is to obstruct the
- peaceful transfer of power so they are
- not hostages they have been afforded due
- process and um and you know convicted of
- crimes but what I think he is doing
- there
- is sending a signal that he is going to
- have the backs of anyone who engages in
- political violence on his behalf that
- terrifies me that should terrify
- everyone yeah just looking at America
- under Donald Trump Mark 2 or 2.0 is it
- something you've truly believe that you
- know America could be on the path to
- The path to authoritarianism
- autocracy or
- authoritarianism I do I truly believe
- that we could be on the path to
- authoritarianism
- it is hard to close my eyes and imagine
- 18:02
- what that America looks like because it
- feels so distant from the America that
- I've known but I'm also aware that we
- have a deep authoritarian strain in this
- country we were not a true democracy
- until the Voting Rights Act was enacted
- in
- 1965 it is not an accident that Donald
- Trump's political rise coincided with
- the election of our first black
- president and so I think in addition to
- looking around the globe at the
- societies that Donald Trump uh wants to
- emulate that he admires we can also look
- to our own history to imagine what an
- authoritarian vision of America could
- look like one of the things that we have
- heard again and again from experts
- around the globe is that
- authoritarianism is contagious that
- authoritarianism in one country informs
- and inspires authoritarian in another
- country but this also means that
- 19:00
- democracy is contagious so is that a
- fear that if Trump wins the next
- election we may see a rise of
- authoritarianism across the world I am
- absolutely I think that if Trump wins
- the next election that will legitimize
- authoritarian movements I think it will
- free up funding and support for
- authoritarian movements through Donald
- Trump's foreign policy which is very
- authoritarian sympathizing right and and
- the things he has said about Russia for
- example um are a great example of that
- um but it'll also mean that we're a role
- model for those right-wing authoritarian
- movements for how they can take a
- democracy co-opt it and turn it into an
- authoritarian Exemplar there is a lot of
- disillusionment about Joe Biden and how
- Joe Biden
- he's performed as an individual as a
- voter what do you make of his
- performance in my view Joe Biden's been
- a good president he isn't perfect there
- are things I really agree with him on
- there things I strongly disagree with
- 20:00
- him on that's part of how democracy
- works and part of what I worry about is
- that these Stakes for our democracy have
- felt so existential for such a long time
- that other extraordinarily important
- issues have had to take a backseat and
- we haven't been able to address them as
- a society or confront them as a society