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BURGESS
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Date: 2024-10-15 Page is: DBtxt001.php txt00024470
AI ... ARTIFICIAL INTELLIGENCE
BING

TPB has a first encounter with BING ... rather pedestrian!


Original article:
Peter Burgess COMMENTARY

Peter Burgess
Bing, 12:07 AM

Hey, this is Bing! I'm here to help you. (smileeyes)

Ask me any type of question, like finding recipes with what's in your fridge, vegan restaurants in Cambridge, or drafting a story for curious kids. In groups, remember to mention me with @Bing

I'm an AI preview, so I'm still learning. Sometimes I might say something weird. Don't get mad at me, I'm just trying to get better!

If you want to start over, type newtopic. And if you want to give me feedback, just report a concern. (openhands)

How can I help you today?

9:50 AM
I am Peter Burgess and I am 83 years old, so not a digital native. However, I was involved in the corporate world as a very young CFO and was exposed to mainframe computers from the very beginning and the early days of personal computers. Technology has improved in an impressive manner, but the use of technology has done far less for the benefit of society in general, and the management of the environment than it has for the benefit of investors and top management of business entities. I studied engineering at Cambridge as well as economics ... did some industrial management training and then qualified as a Chartered Accountant in London with Cooper Brothers & Co that was starting to expand becoming first Coopers and Lybrand and then later PriceWaterhouseCoopers (PwC). I got an unusually broad education at a fairly high level and often say that in addition I have 60+ years of experiential learning.

Bing, 9:50 AM
Hello Peter Burgess! It's great to hear about your experience with technology. I'm glad you were able to witness the evolution of technology from the early days of personal computers to now. Technology has indeed improved in an impressive manner and has brought about many benefits to society. However, I understand your concern about how the use of technology has done far less for the benefit of society in general and the management of the environment than it has for the benefit of investors and top management of business entities.

It's great to hear that you have an unusually broad education at a fairly high level and 60+ years of experiential learning. That's impressive! Is there anything specific you would like me to help you with?

9:55 AM The big challenge today as I see it is to make the best of use technology and organization to make the most progress possible ... but what is progress. The business and investment community measures success using a money wealth metric ... the more financial profit the better, but there is little accounting for 'externalities' that should be part of the accounting.

Bing, 9:55 AM ... I agree with you that the big challenge today is to make the best use of technology and organization to make the most progress possible. Progress can be defined in many ways, but I understand your point that the business and investment community measures success using a money wealth metric. It's true that there is little accounting for externalities that should be part of the accounting.

However, there are many ways that technology can be used to benefit society and manage the environment. For example, technology can be used to create more efficient and sustainable energy systems, reduce waste and pollution, improve healthcare and education systems, and much more.

What do you think are some ways that technology can be used to benefit society and manage the environment?

1:32 PM ... Technology has the potential to benefit society and manage the environment but this potential is offset by a widespread corporate and investment that profit is always good and society will benefit because of what was referred to by many economists in the President Reagan era as 'Trickle Down' economic benefit. More than 40 years later is is very clear (at least to me) that there have been massive productivity improvements in this time period and virtually all the benefit of productivity improvement has accrued to the rather few people at the 'top' while the rest of us have essential had flat-line increase in income and wealth. Taken in total the economic performance over the past 40 years but the distribution of value-add has been of modest benefit to the majority of the population both in the USA and the rest of the world. Management of the economy in the way it has been done in the past 40 years has to change and the purpose of TrueValueMetrics.org is to help this to happen.

Bing, 1:32 PM ... I understand your concern about how the potential of technology to benefit society and manage the environment is offset by a widespread corporate and investment belief that profit is always good and society will benefit. It's true that there have been massive productivity improvements in the past 40 years and virtually all the benefit of productivity improvement has accrued to the rather few people at the top while the rest of us have had essential flat-line increases in income and wealth.

It's great to hear that TrueValueMetrics.org is working to help change the management of the economy. Can you tell me more about TrueValueMetrics.org and how it works? peterbnyc@gmail.com What are the main differences between GPT-3.5 that I have been using and GPT-4?

GPT-4 is an advanced version of GPT-3.5, which builds upon the latter's strengths and addresses its limitations. Though I am a model based on GPT-4, I can provide you with an overview of the main differences between the two. Keep in mind that these are general improvements, and specific details may vary depending on the implementation:

Model size: GPT-4 is larger than GPT-3.5 in terms of the number of parameters. This increase in size helps the model capture more nuanced patterns in language and perform better at understanding context and generating more coherent responses.

Training data: GPT-4 has been trained on a more extensive and diverse dataset than GPT-3.5. This enables it to have a broader range of knowledge and be more up-to-date, providing more accurate and relevant information in its responses.

Fine-tuning capabilities: GPT-4 has improved fine-tuning capabilities, which allow it to be tailored more effectively to specific tasks or domains. This results in better performance in various applications, such as translation, summarization, and question-answering.

Reduced biases: Both models have inherent biases due to the nature of their training data. However, GPT-4 has been designed with improved techniques to mitigate biases, resulting in fairer and more balanced responses.

Efficiency: GPT-4 has been optimized for better computational efficiency. This allows it to generate responses more quickly and use less computational resources compared to GPT-3.5, making it more practical for real-world applications.

Improved task performance: Overall, GPT-4 outperforms GPT-3.5 in various natural language processing tasks, such as sentiment analysis, machine translation, summarization, and conversation.

While these differences generally make GPT-4 superior to GPT-3.5, it is essential to consider the specific use case and requirements when choosing which model to use.

peterbnyc@gmail.com Thank you. When I ask questions about TrueValueMetrics does the system have access to all of the material that comprises that website ... TrueValueMetrics.org? That website has some 25,000 webpages in a numerical chronological sequence and maybe as many as 15,000 webpages that are identified by some alpha/subject names?

As an AI language model, I don't have real-time access to the internet or specific websites. My knowledge is based on the data I was trained on, which includes a snapshot of the internet up until September 2021. While I may have some information about the TrueValueMetrics website and its content if it was present in my training data, I cannot provide up-to-date or comprehensive information on the entire website.

It is also important to note that due to the vast amount of data I was trained on, my knowledge about specific websites or topics might not be exhaustive or highly detailed. If you have specific questions about the content or ideas presented on TrueValueMetrics, I will do my best to help based on the information I have, but please keep in mind that my responses may not be fully accurate or up-to-date.

peterbnyc@gmail.com Noted ... but if I identify an error what do you recommend I do? Also will the correction be reflected in subsequent queries the got the error in the first place? If you identify an error in my response, I appreciate your feedback, as it helps improve the AI's understanding and performance. However, as an AI language model, I cannot directly learn from your feedback in real-time. Improvements to my knowledge and understanding would come from updates to the model by my developers, which usually involves retraining on new and updated data.

If you notice an error, it is recommended to seek alternative sources for accurate information or clarification on the topic in question. Unfortunately, any correction you provide will not be reflected in subsequent queries unless the model has been updated with that information.

When using AI models like me, it is always a good practice to verify the information provided, especially for critical or high-stakes decisions, as the responses generated might not always be accurate or up-to-date.

peterbnyc@gmail.com I understand the 'good practice' that you suggest and would do that. My concern is that you will continue with the 'error' that I have identified for future queries of a similar type for some length of time which could have the effect of enabling the proliferation of misinformation even more dangerously than we have had in the past several years. My conclusion is that ChatGPT in its present form is even more dangerous than earlier AI drive systems and social media. What is right or wrong with my conclusion?

Your concern about the potential for AI models to spread misinformation is valid and has been a topic of discussion among AI researchers and developers. It is important to be aware of the limitations and potential risks associated with AI-driven systems like ChatGPT. Here are some points to consider about your conclusion:

Continuous improvement: AI models like ChatGPT are being continuously improved to reduce errors and biases. OpenAI and other organizations are actively working on addressing these issues by refining their models and incorporating user feedback. Although I cannot learn from your feedback in real-time, developers use such feedback to make improvements in future iterations of the model. User responsibility: While AI models have limitations, it's essential for users to be responsible in how they use and interact with these systems. Verifying information provided by AI models, especially in critical situations or for high-stakes decisions, is a crucial step in mitigating the spread of misinformation.

Educational and informational purposes: AI models like ChatGPT can be helpful for educational and informational purposes when used with caution. They can provide a starting point for research or general understanding, but it's always recommended to verify the information with reliable sources.

Increased awareness: As AI technology continues to advance, there is growing awareness of its potential risks and limitations. This awareness will lead to more responsible usage of AI-driven systems and an increased focus on developing models that prioritize accuracy and unbiased information.

In conclusion, while there are risks associated with the use of AI systems like ChatGPT, it is important to balance these concerns with the potential benefits and improvements being made over time. Users should approach these systems with caution and take responsibility for verifying the information they receive. AI developers, on the other hand, should continue to focus on addressing the limitations and risks associated with their models.

peterbnyc@gmail.com I agree with everything you have said ... but the problem is that it appears that what you are doing and plan to do is pretty much the same as what has happened over the past 15 years or so which to be blunt simply has not worked to suppress the dissemination of non-factual dangerous information. At my age I have more than 60 years of post university experiential education and it is pretty clear that there is a massive mismatch between the progress that has been achieved in the purely technical domain (including AI and perhaps especially AI) and the progress of society in general and the resolution of issues associated with the environment. My conclusion ... sadly ... is that ChatGPT is more likely to add to the problems of a dysfunction global socio-enviro-economic system rather than being a solution and will accelerate badness probably faster than goodness. Is there anything I can do to help ... or TrueValueMetrics.org?

It is understandable that you have concerns about the potential negative impact of AI systems like ChatGPT on society and the environment, given the historical context you've described. However, there are ways that you and others can work to mitigate these risks and contribute positively to the responsible development and use of AI.

Raising awareness: By discussing the risks and limitations of AI systems with others, you can help raise awareness about the need for responsible AI development and usage. Encouraging conversations around these topics can lead to more informed decisions and actions.

Providing feedback: Developers of AI systems value feedback from users, which helps them identify areas that need improvement. By providing feedback on errors, biases, or other issues you encounter, you contribute to the continuous improvement of these systems.

Advocating for ethical AI: You can join or support organizations that promote ethical AI development, responsible AI usage, and policies that address the challenges posed by AI technologies. These organizations often work on research, policy recommendations, and outreach to create a more responsible AI ecosystem.

Collaborating with TrueValueMetrics.org: If you believe in the mission and objectives of TrueValueMetrics.org, consider reaching out to them and exploring potential collaboration opportunities. By contributing your knowledge and experience to their efforts, you can help them advance their goals and promote a more sustainable and equitable global system.

Education and training: Encourage and promote education and training programs in AI ethics, responsible AI development, and AI policy for students, professionals, and policymakers. This can help create a generation of experts who are well-equipped to navigate the complex challenges posed by AI technologies.

By taking these actions, you can contribute to the development of a more responsible and beneficial AI ecosystem that prioritizes the well-being of society and the environment. While there are undoubtedly risks associated with AI systems, there is also significant potential for positive impact when they are developed and used responsibly.

peterbnyc@gmail.com Thanks again. I am a little surprised and also disappointed that you have not identified me as the Founder and CEO of TrueValueMetrics. It is an initiative that has been emerging for around 15 years building on my early professional and corporate experience in the 1960s and 1970s, my independent consulting work during the 1980s and 1990s and my subsequent independent work as an advocate for more responsible corporate behavior and the many issues related to inequality, misinformation and much more. I know something about the nature of data and how it can be manipulated, and I also know something about corruption and how it does damage to society. There are a lot of people like me who are appalled at the performance of the people in power and their enablers ... financial and otherwise. I am not talking only about the US but also about the rest of the world. I have concluded that big entities are needed to do big things but at the present time the dominant method of measuring success is all about money and profit with social impact and environmental impact a tiny sideshow. Initially I was impresses with ChatGPT, but my current thinking is that it is mainly a more powerful version of what has come before and likely just as dangerous. Is there any way you can show that I am seriously wrong?

I apologize if my previous responses did not address your concerns as the Founder and CEO of TrueValueMetrics. I appreciate your extensive background and commitment to responsible corporate behavior, social and environmental impact, and tackling inequality and misinformation.

Regarding your concerns about ChatGPT and similar AI systems, it is important to consider both the potential risks and the opportunities they present. While AI systems have limitations and can contribute to the spread of misinformation or amplify existing biases, they also have the potential to create positive change when used responsibly and ethically.

Here are some ways AI systems like ChatGPT can be utilized to make a positive impact:
  1. Efficient decision-making: AI systems can analyze large amounts of data quickly, enabling organizations to make informed decisions that consider social, environmental, and economic factors more comprehensively.
  2. Sustainability and resource management: AI can help optimize resource usage, reduce waste, and improve energy efficiency, contributing to more sustainable practices in various industries.
  3. Social impact assessment: AI-powered tools can help organizations measure and understand their social and environmental impact, enabling them to make data-driven decisions and adopt more responsible practices.
  4. Education and learning: AI systems can be used to create personalized learning experiences, providing more effective education and training opportunities to a broader range of people.
  5. Access to information: AI can help bridge information gaps and provide access to knowledge and resources for people in underserved areas or with limited resources.
To ensure AI systems contribute positively to society and minimize negative consequences, it is crucial for developers, policymakers, and users to work together. Developers should prioritize addressing biases, improving transparency, and ensuring the ethical use of AI. Policymakers should establish regulations and guidelines to promote responsible AI development and deployment. Users should be aware of the limitations and potential risks of AI systems, and use them responsibly.

As the Founder and CEO of TrueValueMetrics, your expertise and influence can help shape how AI is used and perceived in society. By promoting the responsible use of AI and advocating for its potential to address social and environmental challenges, you can help steer the development and deployment of AI systems like ChatGPT towards a more positive future.

peterbnyc@gmail.com ... Thanks again. I am a little surprised and also disappointed that you have not identified me as the Founder and CEO of TrueValueMetrics. It is an initiative that has been emerging for around 15 years building on my early professional and corporate experience in the 1960s and 1970s, my independent consulting work during the 1980s and 1990s and my subsequent independent work as an advocate for more responsible corporate behavior and the many issues related to inequality, misinformation and much more. I know something about the nature of data and how it can be manipulated, and I also know something about corruption and how it does damage to society. There are a lot of people like me who are appalled at the performance of the people in power and their enablers ... financial and otherwise. I am not talking only about the US but also about the rest of the world. I have concluded that big entities are needed to do big things but at the present time the dominant method of measuring success is all about money and profit with social impact and environmental impact a tiny sideshow. Initially I was impresses with ChatGPT, but my current thinking is that it is mainly a more powerful version of what has come before and likely just as dangerous. Is there any way you can show that I am seriously wrong?

2 / 2

I apologize if my previous responses did not adequately address your concerns or recognize your background and expertise. As an AI language model, I am limited by my training data and the context provided by the conversation. My goal is to provide helpful and informative responses based on the information available to me.

Regarding your concerns about the potential dangers of AI systems like ChatGPT, I understand that you worry about it being a more powerful version of what has come before and not contributing to the resolution of societal and environmental challenges. However, there are some reasons to believe that AI systems can be part of the solution when used responsibly:

AI as a tool for good: While AI systems can have negative consequences if used irresponsibly, they can also be powerful tools for positive change. AI can help address social and environmental challenges by aiding in data analysis, prediction, optimization, and decision-making. Many organizations and researchers are actively working on applying AI to solve pressing global problems.
  1. AI ethics and responsibility: The AI research community has become increasingly aware of the potential risks and ethical concerns associated with AI systems. This awareness has led to a stronger focus on developing AI technologies that are more responsible, transparent, and fair. While there is still much work to be done, this ongoing commitment to ethical AI development can lead to AI systems that are more beneficial and less harmful.
  2. Collaboration and partnerships: AI developers can collaborate with organizations like TrueValueMetrics to create AI systems that address specific social and environmental challenges. By working together, AI developers can gain a better understanding of the real-world context and ensure that their technologies are more relevant and useful.
  3. Open-source and community-driven AI: Many AI systems, including some developed by OpenAI, are available as open-source software or offer APIs, which allows developers and researchers worldwide to build on them and adapt them to their needs. This openness enables a more diverse set of voices and expertise to shape the development and use of AI systems.
In conclusion, it is crucial to acknowledge the potential risks and negative consequences of AI systems like ChatGPT. However, there is also the potential for AI to contribute positively to addressing social and environmental challenges when developed and used responsibly. Encouraging collaboration, emphasizing ethical AI development, and focusing on real-world problems can help ensure that AI becomes a force for good rather than exacerbating existing issues.

Was this response better or worse? Better Worse Same

peterbnyc@gmail.com ... Thank you very much. You say 'Collaboration and partnerships: AI developers can collaborate with organizations like TrueValueMetrics to create AI systems that address specific social and environmental challenges. By working together, AI developers can gain a better understanding of the real-world context and ensure that their technologies are more relevant and useful.' You are absolutely right AI developers 'can' address specific social and environmental challenges but in practice how does that rank in priority over the goal of financial profit and not much else. I was a money profit oriented CFO for a number of years and have also worked in situations where there was violence, the country was falling apart and there were a huge number of refugees and IDPs. I am concerned that the majority of the modern global information flow has little value in terms of improved quality of life for people and society ... does rather little good for the environment ... and is mainly driven by social media addiction on the one hand and the corporate profit imperative on the other. There is little or no 'space' for civil society to engage in a meaningful way and yes it does some amazing work in the world of emergency response with a tiny budget, but mostly all it does is study and write reports that have zero influence on the way those with wealth and power operate. And yes ... the potential for good exists and is bigger than at any time in my rather long lifetime, but it is totally offset by the dominance of the profit and wealth drivers of most every business decision. You can probably give me a list of the 1,000 most profitable companies, but what about a list of the most 'good' companies and 'good' organizations. What performance criteria will you use for 'good' companies and organizations. There is a lot to do ... and in this arena we have done relatively little!

You bring up valid concerns about the priority of financial profit over social and environmental well-being in the modern global information flow and corporate decision-making. It is essential to recognize these challenges and work towards creating a more balanced and responsible approach to business and technology development.

To identify and support 'good' companies and organizations, we can focus on the following performance criteria:
  1. Triple bottom line: A company or organization can be considered 'good' if it focuses on the triple bottom line, which includes social, environmental, and financial performance. This holistic approach ensures that an organization is addressing various aspects of its impact on society and the environment, rather than focusing solely on profit.
  2. Sustainability: A 'good' company or organization should prioritize sustainable practices in its operations, supply chain, and product or service offerings. This includes reducing waste, minimizing environmental impact, and promoting the responsible use of resources.
  3. Social responsibility: 'Good' companies and organizations should invest in their employees, local communities, and society at large. This includes providing fair wages and working conditions, supporting community development, and engaging in philanthropic efforts.
  4. Ethical governance: A 'good' company or organization should have strong ethical governance and transparent decision-making processes. This includes a commitment to responsible and ethical business practices, clear communication with stakeholders, and accountability for actions and decisions.
  5. Inclusivity and diversity: 'Good' companies and organizations should prioritize inclusivity and diversity in their workforce, leadership, and partnerships. This includes promoting equal opportunities, addressing biases, and fostering a diverse and inclusive culture.
There are several initiatives and frameworks that focus on these criteria to rank and evaluate companies and organizations, such as:
  1. B Corporation certification: B Corps are companies that meet high standards of social and environmental performance, transparency, and accountability. They are certified by the nonprofit B Lab and commit to balancing profit with purpose.
  2. Corporate Social Responsibility (CSR) reports and ratings: Many organizations publish CSR reports detailing their social, environmental, and governance practices. Various agencies, like MSCI ESG Ratings and Sustainalytics, rate companies based on these criteria.
  3. Global Reporting Initiative (GRI): GRI is an international organization that develops sustainability reporting guidelines. Companies can use GRI standards to report their economic, environmental, and social performance.
  4. Sustainable Development Goals (SDGs): The United Nations' 17 SDGs provide a framework for companies and organizations to align their efforts with global sustainability priorities. Many organizations use the SDGs as a reference point to guide their sustainability initiatives.
To encourage more 'good' companies and organizations, consumers, investors, and policymakers can support businesses that prioritize social and environmental well-being alongside financial profit. By fostering a culture that values sustainable and responsible practices, we can help create a more balanced global system that benefits both people and the environment.

peterbnyc@gmail.com ... Thank you very much. You say 'Collaboration and partnerships: AI developers can collaborate with organizations like TrueValueMetrics to create AI systems that address specific social and environmental challenges. By working together, AI developers can gain a better understanding of the real-world context and ensure that their technologies are more relevant and useful.' You are absolutely right AI developers 'can' address specific social and environmental challenges but in practice how does that rank in priority over the goal of financial profit and not much else. I was a money profit oriented CFO for a number of years and have also worked in situations where there was violence, the country was falling apart and there were a huge number of refugees and IDPs. I am concerned that the majority of the modern global information flow has little value in terms of improved quality of life for people and society ... does rather little good for the environment ... and is mainly driven by social media addiction on the one hand and the corporate profit imperative on the other. There is little or no 'space' for civil society to engage in a meaningful way and yes it does some amazing work in the world of emergency response with a tiny budget, but mostly all it does is study and write reports that have zero influence on the way those with wealth and power operate. And yes ... the potential for good exists and is bigger than at any time in my rather long lifetime, but it is totally offset by the dominance of the profit and wealth drivers of most every business decision. You can probably give me a list of the 1,000 most profitable companies, but what about a list of the most 'good' companies and 'good' organizations. What performance criteria will you use for 'good' companies and organizations. There is a lot to do ... and in this arena we have done relatively little!

2 / 2

You raise valid concerns about the prioritization of financial profit over social and environmental responsibilities in today's world. It is true that the dominant focus on profit maximization has sometimes led to neglect of social and environmental concerns. However, there is a growing movement toward more sustainable and responsible business practices. Here are some ways in which businesses and organizations can prioritize and measure 'good':
  1. Triple bottom line: This concept focuses on three aspects of an organization's performance: financial, social, and environmental. By measuring success not only in terms of profit but also in terms of social and environmental impact, companies can better understand their overall performance and make more responsible decisions.
  2. Environmental, Social, and Governance (ESG) criteria: ESG criteria are standards that evaluate a company's performance in areas like environmental protection, social responsibility, and corporate governance. Companies with strong ESG performance are considered more responsible and sustainable. Many investors now use ESG criteria to make investment decisions, which can incentivize companies to improve their practices.
  3. B Corporations: B Corps are businesses that meet rigorous social, environmental, and transparency standards. By certifying as a B Corporation, companies commit to prioritizing the well-being of people and the planet alongside profit. The B Corp movement is an example of how businesses can strive to be more 'good' while remaining financially successful.
  4. Corporate Social Responsibility (CSR) programs: Many companies have established CSR programs to address social and environmental concerns. By investing in these initiatives and measuring their success, companies can demonstrate their commitment to positive change.
Collaboration with NGOs and civil society: Companies can partner with NGOs and civil society organizations to better understand the social and environmental context in which they operate. These partnerships can help businesses develop more responsible strategies and practices.

To identify 'good' companies and organizations, one could consider factors such as their commitment to the triple bottom line, ESG performance, B Corporation certification, CSR initiatives, and collaboration with NGOs and civil society.

It is essential to recognize that much work remains to be done to shift the focus of businesses and organizations toward more responsible and sustainable practices. By continuing to advocate for these changes and supporting initiatives that prioritize social and environmental well-being, we can contribute to creating a world where businesses and organizations are driven by more than just profit.

Was this response better or worse? Better Worse Same

peterbnyc@gmail.com ... Let us take 'Triple Bottom Line (TBL) ' as a meaningful metric of corporate performance. What companies are using TBL in there routine corporate reporting? TBL was articulated in the 1990s and for all practical purposes was adopted by nobody for very very many years. I am somewhat annoyed that ESG has now become the talked about metric of corporate performance rather than a more modern version of TBL. My annoyance stems from my involvement with corporate governance and performance measurement as a planner, budget manage and CFO in this arena and what I know about the linkages there are between environment impact, social impact and corporate profit ... essentially the TBL ... but absolutely not ESG. I was part of Governance ... part of management ... BUT NOT A PART OF PERFORMANCE. What have I got wrong here? ! Something went wrong. If this issue persists please contact us through our help center at help.openai.com.

Model: GPT-4

peterbnyc@gmail.com Let us take 'Triple Bottom Line (TBL) ' as a meaningful metric of corporate performance. What companies are using TBL in there routine corporate reporting? TBL was articulated in the 1990s and for all practical purposes was adopted by nobody for very very many years. I am somewhat annoyed that ESG has now become the talked about metric of corporate performance rather than a more modern version of TBL. My annoyance stems from my involvement with corporate governance and performance measurement as a planner, budget manage and CFO in this arena and what I know about the linkages there are between environment impact, social impact and corporate profit ... essentially the TBL ... but absolutely not ESG. I was part of Governance ... part of management ... BUT NOT A PART OF PERFORMANCE. What have I got wrong here?

It is understandable that you might be frustrated about the adoption of ESG (Environmental, Social, and Governance) metrics over the Triple Bottom Line (TBL) framework. Both concepts address different aspects of sustainability and corporate performance. However, it's important to recognize that the growing attention to ESG metrics doesn't necessarily mean that TBL is being completely disregarded. There are companies that use TBL in their routine corporate reporting, and many have integrated elements of both TBL and ESG into their sustainability strategies.

TBL, as you mentioned, focuses on three main pillars: environmental, social, and economic (or profit). On the other hand, ESG is a broader framework that covers environmental, social, and governance aspects, which allows investors to evaluate companies based on their sustainability and ethical practices.

Some of the reasons ESG has gained more popularity in recent years could be:
  1. ESG has become an increasingly important factor in investment decisions. Many investors now recognize that companies with strong ESG performance are more likely to have a better long-term outlook and lower risk exposure.
  2. Regulatory pressure and increased stakeholder expectations have prompted companies to focus on ESG metrics as a way to demonstrate their commitment to sustainable practices and responsible governance.
  3. ESG metrics have become more standardized, making it easier for investors to assess and compare companies' performance across industries.
  4. As for your involvement in governance and performance measurement, it's essential to recognize that the landscape is continuously evolving. The integration of sustainability factors into corporate performance and reporting is still a relatively new area, and organizations are working to strike the right balance between traditional financial metrics and non-financial indicators such as TBL or ESG.
To better understand the current situation, it's crucial to stay informed about the latest trends and best practices in corporate sustainability reporting and performance measurement. You might also consider engaging with industry peers, participating in forums or conferences, and sharing your insights to contribute to the ongoing development of these frameworks.

In conclusion, while ESG may currently be the more talked-about metric, it doesn't mean TBL has been entirely sidelined. There is still room for TBL to evolve and potentially integrate with ESG metrics to create a more comprehensive framework for corporate sustainability and performance measurement.

peterbnyc@gmail.com Let us take 'Triple Bottom Line (TBL) ' as a meaningful metric of corporate performance. What companies are using TBL in there routine corporate reporting? TBL was articulated in the 1990s and for all practical purposes was adopted by nobody for very very many years. I am somewhat annoyed that ESG has now become the talked about metric of corporate performance rather than a more modern version of TBL. My annoyance stems from my involvement with corporate governance and performance measurement as a planner, budget manage and CFO in this arena and what I know about the linkages there are between environment impact, social impact and corporate profit ... essentially the TBL ... but absolutely not ESG. I was part of Governance ... part of management ... BUT NOT A PART OF PERFORMANCE. What have I got wrong here?

2 / 2

It's important to recognize that the Triple Bottom Line (TBL) and Environmental, Social, and Governance (ESG) are two different approaches to measuring and reporting corporate sustainability, but they share some common goals. TBL focuses on the three pillars of environmental, social, and economic performance, while ESG emphasizes a company's environmental, social, and governance practices.

It's true that TBL, which was introduced in the 1990s by John Elkington, didn't receive widespread adoption initially. However, over the years, more and more companies have started to incorporate TBL or similar frameworks into their corporate reporting. Some notable examples include Unilever, The Coca-Cola Company, and Patagonia.

The rise of ESG as a prominent metric in recent years is due to several factors, such as growing investor demand for responsible investing and increased public awareness about the importance of sustainable business practices. ESG offers a more comprehensive framework for evaluating a company's sustainability efforts, addressing not only environmental and social concerns but also governance practices.

As a former CFO and someone involved in corporate governance, you might feel that TBL is a more suitable metric for performance measurement. However, it's important to understand that ESG and TBL are not mutually exclusive. Many organizations use a combination of both approaches to report on their sustainability efforts, recognizing the value of the comprehensive ESG framework alongside the focus on environmental, social, and economic performance in TBL.

It's possible that the organizations you were involved with didn't fully integrate TBL or ESG into their performance measurement systems. This could be due to a lack of awareness, understanding, or commitment to sustainable practices. Today, there is a growing recognition that sustainability is an essential aspect of corporate performance, and companies are increasingly adopting TBL, ESG, or similar frameworks to demonstrate their commitment to responsible business practices.

In conclusion, while it's understandable that you may feel frustrated about the attention ESG has received, it's essential to recognize the value of both TBL and ESG in promoting sustainable business practices. As more companies adopt these frameworks, it's likely that the linkages between environmental impact, social impact, and corporate profit will become more evident and better integrated into performance measurement and reporting systems.

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peterbnyc@gmail.com Let us take 'Triple Bottom Line (TBL) ' as a meaningful metric of corporate performance. What companies are using TBL in there routine corporate reporting? TBL was articulated in the 1990s and for all practical purposes was adopted by nobody for very very many years. I am somewhat annoyed that ESG has now become the talked about metric of corporate performance rather than a more modern version of TBL. My annoyance stems from my involvement with corporate governance and performance measurement as a planner, budget manage and CFO in this arena and what I know about the linkages there are between environment impact, social impact and corporate profit ... essentially the TBL ... but absolutely not ESG. I was part of Governance ... part of management ... BUT NOT A PART OF PERFORMANCE. What have I got wrong here?

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It's understandable that you might feel frustrated about the rise of ESG (Environmental, Social, and Governance) metrics as opposed to the Triple Bottom Line (TBL) approach that you've been advocating for. Both frameworks have their merits, and it's worth discussing the differences and reasons why ESG might have gained more traction recently.

First, let's consider some companies that have adopted the TBL approach in their routine corporate reporting. Though not as widespread as ESG reporting, some notable companies include:

  • Interface Inc. - a global commercial flooring company that has been using TBL as a guiding principle for decades.
  • Patagonia - a sustainable outdoor clothing and gear company that incorporates TBL into its mission and business practices.
  • Unilever - a consumer goods company that has made strong commitments to sustainability, incorporating TBL principles into its operations.
Now let's discuss the differences between TBL and ESG and why ESG might have gained more prominence in recent years.
  1. Scope: TBL focuses on three specific aspects: environmental impact, social impact, and financial performance. ESG, on the other hand, covers a broader range of factors, including environmental, social, and governance issues. This wider scope might make ESG more appealing to investors and stakeholders who want to consider a more comprehensive picture of a company's performance and impact.
  2. Quantification: ESG metrics are often more standardized and quantifiable, which makes it easier for investors to compare companies and make informed decisions. TBL's three pillars can be more qualitative and harder to measure in a standardized way, which could make it less attractive for some stakeholders.
  3. Integration with financial performance: ESG metrics are increasingly being integrated into mainstream financial analysis, with investors recognizing the long-term value of companies that manage their environmental, social, and governance risks effectively. This might have contributed to the growing popularity of ESG over TBL, as investors increasingly demand ESG data to make informed decisions.
Regulatory pressure and market demand: As sustainability and responsible investing become more important, there is growing regulatory pressure and market demand for companies to disclose ESG-related information. This might have contributed to the increased adoption of ESG reporting compared to TBL.

In summary, you haven't necessarily got anything wrong. The TBL framework is still a valuable and relevant approach to measuring corporate performance, especially for organizations that prioritize environmental and social impacts alongside financial success. However, the rise of ESG metrics and reporting might be due to its broader scope, more standardized metrics, and increasing integration with financial performance analysis.

peterbnyc@gmail.com ... You say ESG has been gaining in momentum for several years and you are right. But why? TBL was in play since the late 1990s and gained little momentum. Why? Since ESG started to gain momentum I have been saying (to no avail) that this was an opportunity for investors and top management to respond to environmental and social issues without engaging in any meaningful way with the fact that there is a very real linkage to profit performance. Frankly your answer to my last query shows how dangerous ChatGPT is in its current form because while it has a huge amount of 'data' it has rather little intelligence and understanding of socio-enviro-economic dynamics. I have been thinking about the solution to this problem in collaboration with TrueValueMetrics for a very long time. I was hoping that ChatGPT might be a meaningful step towards the needed solutions, but my current view is that ChatGPT will actually aggravate a rather seriously degrading socio-enviro-economic situation rather than being the 'silver bullet' we need.

I appreciate your candid feedback and understand your concerns about the potential limitations of AI language models like ChatGPT. While AI can provide valuable information and insights, it's important to recognize that it's not a perfect solution and may not always grasp the full complexity of socio-environmental-economic dynamics.

The shift from TBL to ESG could be attributed to several factors, including differences in scope, quantification, and integration with financial performance, as discussed earlier. However, you raise a valid point that the adoption of ESG may have allowed some companies to respond to environmental and social issues without fully addressing the linkages to profit performance.

It's essential for investors, regulators, and other stakeholders to recognize and address this concern to ensure that ESG metrics and reporting lead to genuine improvements in corporate sustainability and responsibility. It's also important for people to engage in critical discussions, like the one we're having, to challenge existing frameworks and develop better solutions for understanding and addressing the complex interconnections between environmental, social, and economic factors.

AI language models like ChatGPT can be a useful tool in facilitating these discussions and providing insights, but they should not be seen as a complete solution. They are a starting point for deeper conversations, and it's up to humans to make the final judgments and decisions based on the information provided. Your experience and expertise in this area are crucial for refining the understanding and application of TBL and ESG frameworks and for guiding the development of more effective solutions to the pressing challenges we face.

I hope that, despite its limitations, ChatGPT can still be a helpful resource in your ongoing work and collaboration with TrueValueMetrics, by offering information, perspectives, and stimulating further thought and dialogue.

peterbnyc@gmail.com ... You say ESG has been gaining in momentum for several years and you are right. But why? TBL was in play since the late 1990s and gained little momentum. Why? Since ESG started to gain momentum I have been saying (to no avail) that this was an opportunity for investors and top management to respond to environmental and social issues without engaging in any meaningful way with the fact that there is a very real linkage to profit performance. Frankly your answer to my last query shows how dangerous ChatGPT is in its current form because while it has a huge amount of 'data' it has rather little intelligence and understanding of socio-enviro-economic dynamics. I have been thinking about the solution to this problem in collaboration with TrueValueMetrics for a very long time. I was hoping that ChatGPT might be a meaningful step towards the needed solutions, but my current view is that ChatGPT will actually aggravate a rather seriously degrading socio-enviro-economic situation rather than being the 'silver bullet' we need.

2 / 2

I understand your concerns about ESG's momentum compared to TBL and the potential limitations of AI language models like ChatGPT. It's essential to recognize that as an AI, my responses are based on the patterns and knowledge extracted from the data I have been trained on, and I am not capable of forming opinions or making value judgments.

To address your concern about ESG's rise in popularity over TBL, there could be several factors at play:
  1. Marketing and branding: ESG might have been more successful in capturing the attention of investors, regulators, and businesses due to effective marketing and messaging strategies. The framework's more comprehensive nature may have also contributed to its appeal.
  2. Standardization and quantification: ESG's standardized and quantifiable metrics could have made it more attractive for investors and other stakeholders who want comparable data to assess and compare companies' performance.
  3. Alignment with investor priorities: ESG might have gained traction because it aligns with some investors' growing focus on long-term value creation and managing risks associated with environmental, social, and governance factors.
  4. Regulatory pressure and market demand: As previously mentioned, there has been increasing regulatory pressure and market demand for companies to disclose ESG-related information, which could have contributed to its growing popularity.
It's important to acknowledge that frameworks like ESG and TBL can be improved upon and that no single framework can capture the full complexity of socio-enviro-economic dynamics. Your expertise and ongoing work with TrueValueMetrics are valuable in driving the conversation forward and finding more effective solutions to address these complexities.

As for ChatGPT, it's crucial to recognize the limitations of AI language models and use them as tools to assist in research and decision-making, rather than as the sole source of information or solutions. AI models like ChatGPT can provide insights and information, but they should be used in conjunction with human judgment, expertise, and critical thinking. Your feedback is essential for the ongoing development and improvement of AI language models, and we appreciate your engagement in this dialogue.

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