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Date: 2026-03-03 Page is: DBtxt003.php txt00029378

COMMENTARY THE COFFEE KLATCH ... DECEMBER 17TH 2025 with Robert Reich and Heather Lofthouse Did We Learn Anything in 2025? PLAY YOUTUBE VIDEO Original article: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=97DqQjiUK6Y
Did We Learn Anything in 2025? \| The Coffee Klatch with Robert Reich Robert Reich 1.41M subscribers December 27th 2025 The Coffee Klatch with Robert Reich I won’t sugarcoat it: this was an exhausting, cruel, terrible year. On this week’s Coffee Klatch, Heather and I try to make sense of what the country endured in 2025 — and what lessons we can take into 2026. Peter Burgess COMMENTARY Peter Burgess Transcript 0:00 And it is the Saturday coffee clutch with Heather Loft House and yours truly, Robert Rich for a special end of the year coffee clutch. Heather, it's been a hell of a year. 2025 will go down in history as what? The worst? No, the worst in recent memory. Yeah, really horrific on many levels. I am I I'm so eager to see 2026 begin. I started to say that I was eager for 2026 and I realized that we don't have any basis for assuming that 20 26 is going to be better. Oh, I thought you were going to say it's going to happen. Well, it will happen. I think it's going to happen. No, I don't know if it'll be better, but I think we have to take stock and keep moving forward. And a deep breath. And a deep breath. And have you been meditating? Not enough. But I did have some people write in after we talked about meditating and said they said you all should be doing it. Well, I I have been doing it or at least trying to do it not often enough and not 1:03 long enough. It's very difficult. Um but it is one of the techniques actually the best technique for dealing with the scourge of Donald Trump. Tell us is political activism. Activism demonstr we'll get we'll get into we'll get into it. We'll get into it. So I think what we want first of all we got so many questions from people across the board. We got them in YouTube and on Substack and on Blue Sky and by email. So thank you all for being such a highly engaged, excited, committed, strong group of people for us to be clutching with. I I want to add to that. I mean it's because of you uh that this conversation every Saturday really works. It's because of you that we are encouraged to continue. It's because of you that we are in a dialogue not just with us and not just with Katie and Vish and and Michael and other people that occasionally from Inequality Media Civic 2:01 Action join us but also in a dialogue very much with you. This is this is our community. You are part of our community. I looked it up and our first coffee clutch was March 20th, 2022. 1952. Yeah. 1952. 2022. 2022. Has are people have people been here since the beginning? We should also real quick give a shout out to um Mr. Kalp K A P. Who was his first name is Corey. So Corey Calpal. Cory Kalp really shout out to you for what? So he for what are we shouting out? So he produced Deardra Brick and they do our theme song. Oh, remember in the early days, thank you uh thank you for the theme song experiment. This is we're not ending anything. This is just a matter of of shouting out and thanking people. Um and uh and this was more than this year. This was a couple of years ago. This was I know. So they did our theme song. We said, 'Does anyone want to write us a 3:01 theme song?' They did. It's so terrific. But so we have a whole bunch of questions. I have some questions for you. I have some questions for you. And then also we can I want to ask other people questions, you know, at the end kind of launch us into 2026. But I think the goal today is to reckon with the horrible cruelty that surrounds us. Yeah. I you know the I'm a little bit schizophrenic when it comes to dealing with this year. I'm going to be absolutely upfront about it because on the one hand I can very easily find myself in the depths of despair and yet I also feel very hopeful. I mean I I find myself wavering between the two and I'm sure that all of you uh are you know it's such an emotional reality. It's so you know what has happened Heather uh and all of you know is so cruel. It is so baseless. It is so 4:03 um against the traditions and ideals that we were born with. Um and a lot of people out there uh I know a lot of you feel helpless and powerless and believe it or not I do too. Uh but let's hear from you. But I also think the vicissitudes I mean that's just the way it is. The vicissitudes. Yeah. You get up in the morning. Yeah. You do a a morning routine and you think, 'Okay, today's going to be okay. I'm going to make my coffee. I'm going to make my tea. I'm going to do my meditation.' Whatever one's morning, I'm going to let the dog out. I'm going to yawn. Whatever you do in the morning and you think, 'Okay, I've got this.' And then you open the newspaper. You open the cell phone or you look on the computer and all of a sudden it's a gut punch on average. And then and then you kind of get yourself back up. I feel like you and I this is a the clutch is a microcosm. We come in here and I usually complain at the beginning. No, you don't. Oh, I'm like, h here we go. Heather, no. You are not a complainer. 5:03 You don't think so? No, you are not. You are actually upbeat. Oh, most people. Don't you think Heather is basically upbeat? Basically upbeat. Put this in the clutch. The name of my memoir. No, because that's a little bit of a beat. No. Okay. I think I'm I'm the one who's I'm I'm much more downbeat. But in in a given clutch, yeah, I feel like you find it and I think it's cuz you're pulling you find your way back up, though. Well, I hope that's the case because I think that's metaphorically what we all have been trying to do. Yeah. This year is find our way back up. Let's let's get to the question. Okay, let's get to a question. So, we have a whole bunch and we've tried to Michael on our team. We kind of just quickly threw some down from all over the place. So, thank you all. Um I think here's a good one. Uh I mean all of these are going to be tap into the appalling nature of things. So let but we're going to get through it together. Okay. So one is we had Sarah on blue sky. How is all of this corruption 6:00 happening? What is how why is this our reality now? Why is a criminal allowed to run our country? Is it really that complex? Money, money, money. Is this the answer? Well, it's money. I mean, follow the money. We we have known this since the Nixon administration. Before that, we knew it. Uh but there is a great deal of money. Washington has become a glittering center of global capitalism. Not Wall Street any longer. It is Washington DC. And the corruption in the current administration, the Trump administration is beyond any corruption I have ever witnessed or seen. Uh and it also centers on Trump's own kind of malignant narcissistic bloation. I mean, you know, yesterday, I don't think you got this news. He actually changed the name of Washington DC to Washington DT. Donald Trump. Stop it, Bob. Well, I mean, it's that kind of absurdity when he put his name on you 7:03 for a second. Put his name on the Kennedy Center. I mean, that was horrific. Unbelievable. Unbelievable. But is it really unbelievable? It's it's the Kennedy Center is supposed to be a memorial. I know. To the memory. That's what a memorial is. A memorial is a you don't add a carrot and then stick your own name in there. Put your name if you are still alive and you you don't as a president put your name on it. I mean he said he thanked the you know the the trustees. Uh but he named every single one of the trustees of the Kennedy Center and he named the chair. He's the chair. It's it's sickening. This is part of the corruption. I mean, you can't just look at the money. You have to also look at the unbridled narcissism behind the money. You've got to look at the billionaires behind Trump who put him into office who are now getting tax relief and regulatory relief and getting uh you know uh no bid contracts and you know the uh the Koch 8:06 brothers and the the Ellisons and uh you know Elon Musk and and all of these people who uh really are draining the public uh our our money, our our treasure, our our uh are our kind of uh integrity. Yeah. Our public integrity. And then you have combined with that you have all these MAGA sycopants, right? So you have the backbone which is all these billionaires. You have the system which is set up to support those billionaires and it's been you know the things that were trying to block it have been kind of chipped away and then you have all these people just saluting. And this is where I get to my optimism. Oh thank okay this is great. I no I want to just put an optimistic note down uh because this corruption has been growing for years. I mean I was in Bill Clinton's cabinet. I was part of the Carter administration. I 9:02 you know went back to the Ford administration back to James K. Poke you and Lincoln. Wow. But corruption is not new. Uh it has grown. It is much worse uh even before Trump. We knew about it and we set up systems to try to avoid it. We didn't want a monarch. We didn't want one person in charge of everything. But the systems were already breaking down. The amount of money going into our politics already before Trump was horrendous. And my my silver lining, you ready? is that the exposure of the corruption, the blatancy of the corruption, the the fact that you've got these billionaires who are appearing at the Trump inauguration who are writing him checks for his ballroom, writing him checks for whatever he wants, uh, and cozying up to him because he is so corrupt himself is revealing the degree of corruption. I believe that that is the first stage toward fundamental 10:01 reform. Yes, I believe that after this administration, it's not going to happen before, but after this administration, this regime is finished, we are going to have a title wave, a tsunami of fundamental reform in terms of money and corruption. And I believe you. Well, I'm glad you believe me. I think it's going to I'm choosing to believe you. I want you to believe me because I think it's I think it's true. Um, okay. So, another question. And we kind of have themes, you know, we have a bunch of people. It was so interesting to see what the themes of people writing it about. So one is like how long is this going to go on? You know, I think that was a in a lot of questions. Well, yeah. I mean, for example, Hatman on Blue Sky. I mean, these are so fun. Hatman says, 'What is the tipping point that could turn representatives against Trump and take back control?' Let me add one more. Substack. Keith Olsen said, 'How much longer will the Republicans continue to let this happen?' So, a lot of it is a timing question and 11:01 uh well, I think that the we're seeing the Republicans turning already. I mean, we you know, the the even over the last two weeks, we've seen a number of Republicans saying on issues ranging from Venezuela and bombing the boats uh to Jeffrey Epstein to I mean all kinds of things uh even uh unionization of government employees. uh and some gerrymandering and oh and clearly on gerrymandering. I mean look at Indiana. Um these Republicans are saying no we we are not going there. We've had it. U we don't need Trump anymore and we don't need to be oh we don't need to be scared of Trump. This is a big deal. Yeah. And I think it's going to continue to happen in 2026 to an even greater extent. Yeah. You look great by the way. You look great. I love I tell you you look great. I love that Substack of yours. Thank you. If people haven't read that substack, it was so good. 12:02 Basically, who was it? I mean, you said someone Whipple. Uh, yes. It's um Fred Whipple. And Fred Whipple was the head of the observatory at Harvard for 70 years. And I 70 years. And the last time I saw Fred, he was in his 90s. He was not feeling well. He was kind of grumpy. And I said, 'You look great.' And he said, and he said, 'I feel like and I look like shit.' And I said, 'No, I mean you look really good, Fred.' And he said, 'There are four stages of human life. Uh there is youth up to 40, age 40. There is middle age from 40 to 60. Uh there is older age from 60 to 80. And then there is you look great.' It's so good. I love that. Um okay, so next questions. Let's get to I'm almost at You look great, by the way. Technically, you mean technically in 13:00 terms of the numbers, but you I think you look great. Um I think you look great. Okay, so then um another series of questions that came in are how do we get Democrats to listen? So, this is the subject head, but let's let me give you a specific one. Um, Steve Sawyer on Blue Sky says, 'Because the Democratic leadership isn't leading, I feel we're seeing a true grassroots opposition developing completely independent from the Democratic Party. Is this feeling simply because I live in a liberal progressive bubble? Or if it's real, what odds are the de what are the odds the Democratic Party follows this?' Uh well it is partly because you are living in a liberal Democratic bubble Steve Steve U but I do see evidence um of an upsurge uh among progressive Democrats fighting the corporate and Wall Street Democrats. That's that's really been uh a fight that has gone on. I have been involved in it for 40 years. uh the 14:06 corporate Wall Street Democrats do tend to have more influence because they have more money and money talks even in the Democratic party. U obviously that's what the Democratic National Committee is all about raising money. Y uh but I think it's turning around. I think that uh Zoran Mani's election in New York City uh was a beginning. I think the mayor of Seattle, Katie Wilson, also is a very important step, but also the special elections and the lower and state legislators and young people coming in in Florida and Texas. A lot of a lot of them are coming in not because the Democratic party officially tagged them, but because they are coming up from the grassroots. uh and a lot of and and and again I want to stress that there is this progressive tug here is 15:01 another part of my silver lining. I don't think it would have happened except for Trump. I think Trump has forced uh the party to the I'm not even just going to say left toward the progressive side. I do think that there were people who were ready for this kind of thing, but I think it has forced their hand and it has made them come together faster, more efficiently. I mean, I'm watching all these young progressives and they are trying to do stuff at the state levels. There are many organizations, many packs, um, many nonprofits just going in and saying, 'What do we do?' And people are standing up. Can I tell you all about We got this bowl of hope from Fern um, who who has Fern's Garden on Solano in Berkeley. Sorry to be so Berkeley specific, but if you get a bowl of hope, you get a bowl of hope. Thank you for your hope. And so she said she saw the last class, the film about your final semester of teaching in Berkeley at the Elmwood um Rialto and she said, 'I've been making these in my 16:00 studio kiln ever since.' And these are just little buttons of hope. And so I think every time we find something hopeful, I'm just going to look at these buttons. So I'm going to take one out. How about we take them out and we put them in and maybe we have a bowl full at the end. So you've had two bowls of hope. Two hope. But there are a lot of bolds of hope. What is inspiring Fern and many other people around the country in terms of activism and organizing and mobilizing and energizing people. Uh again is this sense that if we don't do it, nobody will. That it's up to us. We are the leaders we've been waiting for. And then you see at a no kings rally, and there's another one planned for 2026. You say, 'Oh, if I don't do it, no one else will.' But someone else had that same thought. And so here we come together. This is the best form of politics. Now, I don't want to sound like a roaring cockeyed, you know, positive rosycoled 17:02 glass. Um but out of the ruins uh of this 2025 may come right hopefully uh not only a surge uh that takes back the house and the senate in 2026 but also uh a a new understanding of what democracy is all about what the rule of law is all about what due process is all about. all of these things that were abstractions. Now, because of Trump uh and his minions and his his, you know, his sickopaths and and his lap dogs, we actually know what it means not to have these things, right? And I think they come into the four, you know, they're it's like they're in stark relief now in a way. That's a good way of putting and we needed it. Okay, fine. I'll put one. This is probably not what you do for a podcast is have a sound like this, Michael. Okay, I won't. It's No, I like the sound effect. Um, okay. So, one person said, 'Why did 18:03 you two decide to do the clutch?' Why did we decide to do it? I'm trying to think. Did we decide to do it or did we just do it? I think we Oh, I remember we were having breakfast at Souls in Berkeley for once for many times and we had you know an animated discussion like we're having now uh about what was happening during the week and you said or Elliot Kushner who by the way directed uh the last class uh said why don't you guys do this regularly I mean why don't you do just turn on the turn on the mics remember we working with Cara at the time who's so fabulous, one of our colleagues, and she was like, 'Yeah, I mean you could try it.' And then do you remember we said we did it? She was like, 'You already did it. It was just us at your desk.' I think I think this is another reason that I want to thank you you guys. Um because we did try this as an experiment. We didn't know what anybody 19:02 out there would be interested in hearing us, right? Particularly every week. Uh I thought you were going to say particularly you. No, particularly me. No, me. Oh, no. No. Heather, you add just so much energy. I I'm an old fart. Can I just say that? Stop it. I am. I'm I'm almost You look great. You look great. And you look great. You look great. So great. Um but uh but it was just we just decided No, it's a comm there. There is again I'm going to go back to the same kind of silver lining. There's a community out there and a I think there's value in co-processing co-processing. What does that mean? Processing together. Yeah. You know, you and I saying what happened this week and you all put stuff in the comments and then we think is that maybe we get, you know, we pull a thread that's a new video we're going to make or we figure out something different by having a conversation. Clearly, we have been all going through something horrible together this year. 20:01 And the fact that we are all going through it together makes it almost bearable. that is you know I I hear from people all the time who feel that they're very lonely especially people in red cities in red states they feel like they are endangered some of them but they but even more commonly they just feel like they are crazy that they are out of step and what we are doing here and what we're trying to do with our videos but what we're trying to do generally is to make sure that people know that they're not alone that they're not crazy that actually most people in America still believe in the ideals that animated this nation. So back to this series of questions on the Dems. What can the Dems do? What can I do visa v the Dems? What should they focus on? A number of people asked what what what would your advice be to the Democratic party? Said Courtney Fay on Facebook, for example. And I think immigration has got to be paid attention 21:04 to more. I mean you and I have talked about this but it has been so egregious and affordability what other what's been egregious about immigration it's there's almost zero immigration now right well that anyone who has previously immigrated is now being oh clearly extraated yes extricated is exactly right and what what you know Steven Miller uh who is the brains u behind Trump's immigration policy and the homeland security You know what they're doing now is going after people who are here legally who are on green cards or who are naturalized citizens or this is a slippery slope. We know it's a slippery slope. Uh and it's just the same slippery slope having to do with bombing uh boats in the Caribbean. Um we have got to stand up. The Democrats 22:03 have to stand up. Independents have to stand up and say, 'No, we are a nation of immigrants. My greatgrandparents came over here in the 1880s. Uh, your ancestors came over here, I'm sure, or you came over here. Um, some not voluntarily, right? Some were forced to be here. Some came because they had no other choices. Some because they wanted a new life. This is America is built on immigration. I think many people are very mad about what's happening with ICE. I think it's the closest we've come in my lifetime to a domestic police force, a domestic terror force. There is no due process. They continue to make arrests and they are disguising themselves. They're disguising their names. There is no accountability. They're going to the courts where a lot of people who are 23:03 here uh because they have a right to be here to even have their their cases adjudicated uh are going and they are being arrested by ICE. This is going on right under our noses. What should Democrats do? Democrats, if they're in Congress, uh they have got to fight this. They've got to show on television more and more examples of what's happening. We as individuals, we have got to take videos of what's happening when we see it. We've got to alert our neighbors and friends to where I is in our neighborhoods. We've got to protect innocents. Uh there are people, Heather, in my community who I've known for years, hardworking, wonderful people, uh who are now afraid to venture out of their homes and afraid to have their children venture out of their homes because they are technically 24:01 undocumented. Uh this is a terror state and we not just the Democrats who are officials, but we all of us have a responsibility. and schools. I have to give a shout out to school districts because I feel like so many school districts are trying to hold information sessions, trying to offer support. I mean, they're already doing so much um food support and nutrition support around the holidays, but I've seen a lot around this particular issue and dems need to own it for what it is and say not okay. Someone else, can I ask you this? Someone from YouTube, AZ Sage13 says, um, I have a question I've been asking for months and I never get a good answer. If birthright citizenship goes away, then what makes the average American a citizen? Well, that's a very good logical question because if birth if if you if you can't be a citizen because your parents were not born here, what about your grandparents? What about your great-grandparents? What makes me a 25:02 citizen? My great-grandparents were not born here. Where do you draw draw the line? Yeah. Uh, and that's exactly what we're talking about because if if Trump and Steven Miller and Russell vote and JD Vance have their way, it's just white Christian male straight what uh nationalist uh fanatics. And that's another thing the Dems need to be saying. This is racist. This is horrific. This is exactly what this is. This is bigotry. It's bigotry. Uh that word is very important and that's now splitting some of the even some of the MAGAs. Uh you know over the last couple weeks there have been a number of instances where uh there have been fights among the MAGA faithful between those who say Tucker Carlson and Nick Fuentes. perfectly okay to be bigoted, perfectly okay to be 26:00 racist, perfectly okay uh to be xenophobic uh and misogynist and others who are saying no. Yeah. And then JD Vance says we have a big tent. We think it's fine. We we invite the bigots and the non-bigots. You can't invite the bigots. America must say no to bigotry. Democrats have got to say no to bigotry just as loudly as they possibly can. I know it's true. So, one thing I struggle with is the fact that I feel like you're a very logical person. You actually majored in I love logic. I love logic and I love studying. What do you What did you love about or what do you love about puzzles? It's so great. You have premises and then a conclusion and then you get to diagram things on on a ven diagram and see what exists and what doesn't exist. I think it's so fun. Then you get to do derivations and you get to I have a law I have a law degree. Um and I was in the class by the way at Yale Law School with Clarence Thomas 27:04 and Bill Clinton and Hillary Clinton. Uh so I and and and law has its own logic and it parallels but here how do we I feel like we're coming at we're trying to dialogue we're trying to address with logic insanity emotionality extreme hate ex lying I mean it's so hard to to truck with these two things I struggle with that well I think Uh I think one way of understanding it is that uh and and as a teacher for 44 years or so uh I remember often struggling with this issue and I finally understood the way you educate is by appealing both to the brain and to the emotions. One or the other won't work. Uh, and unfortunately what we have 28:00 here in Trump is somebody who appeals to the emotions and he appeals to the brain by lying. And he uses the emotions and the anger that people feel because frankly most Trump followers have been they've been shafted by the system for 40 years. Uh, and they're angry and they have every right to be angry. And he has rallies. I mean, he really was good at kind of and he is still good at at at rallying, but what he does is he takes that anger and channels it into hate and bigotry uh instead of logic. Uh and I think that I would like to think people are catching on. His polls are just are just Yes, you can make noise. His polls are dropping like lead balloons. I know on all fronts. On all fronts. This is another aspect of of what we should um actually celebrate if there is anything to 29:00 celebrate at the end of this year. I think there is. Well, so can we just look ahead a little bit and say people want to know what they should do. I mean they want to know what comes next. So that would be nice if we could be psychic and just tell everyone what's coming next. Okay, let me psychic Carmarmac. Do you remember Johnny? You don't. It's too early. Of course. Johnny Carson when he did the Carmarmac, the Magnificent. Um, okay. I I'm I'm now channeling the future. But so questions are, can we redeem our world status? You know, and what do we The answer is yes. Besides Sauron, yes. Um, are there any other politicians we have our eyes on? And if so, what are you hoping they'll do after the midterms? Yes. To all Wow. Um, thank you. Well, I think there are a number of leaders emerging uh in the Democratic Party and even independents. Uh we don't know exactly who they are uh 30:01 because they don't emerge full-blown until we get within two years of a presidential race. Um and even closer to the midterms, right? I mean, we know what's happening, but it's going to be interesting to see who really rises to the top. Yeah. But I I'm I'm very encouraged by many of them. I'm encouraged also it's it's easy to forget that just you can make noise when you put I don't know Michael to make okay you um it was not that many years ago uh 2016 Bernie Sanders was running for president. People thought it was a joke. A a Democratic socialist. He came within a hair's breath of getting the nomination. I do like to think about that. Uh and then he ran again in 2020 came very very close. Had the DNC the Democratic National Committee not been against him he might have won the domin nomination. Had he won the nomination Bernie Sanders might be president today. You have other people AOC Alexandra Okjo Cortez uh who 31:04 embodies to me uh some of the best and most articulate and cogent aspects of the Democratic party. Uh you have again Zoran Mdani, you have across the country Democrats, young people who are coming up through the ranks uh with courage, with strength and I I think it is and with serious communication abilities. Yes. So important. It is because Trump has been a star communicator. Disgusting. Yeah. But so watching these people who get digital, which is something you and I work in, I mean, we're trying to ride the waves of social media. Well, I think one thing we've learned is that you've got to really be firm, bold. You've got to have conviction. You've got to be able to con convey that conviction. You have got to be able to be authentic. Uh unfortunately, uh Donald Trump looked like and he still 32:01 seems to many people to be authentic and he's a con man. Yeah, absolutely. A comment. So, you've got to be authentic and hopefully not uh anybody who uh distorts the truth. One thing that I was booed by was this fabulous consultant came in. She's just a one individual person who said, 'I am going to help you team Zoron Mumdani and get people off of Instagram and into the streets doing canvasing, doing volunteering, doing phone calling.' and she was able to get 40,000 people from Instagram because the whole thing is these social media companies, they own everything. If they close down today, I don't know how to get in touch with any of our, you know, tens of thousands of followers. And so, she was able to get them from Instagram and get people motivated and out into the street. Now, that sounds like, oh, that can't be that hard. It's incredibly hard to do at scale. And so things like that where I watch different things happen this year and I see how nimble people are and I see how hungry they are. 33:03 Look how well you and Elliot did with the movie. The movie has been great. That's I mean it was interesting cuz I kept on asking you and we're talking about the last class. The last class about Bob's final semester of teaching. I kept on asking how do we distribute? How are you going to distribute this? And you said don't worry. You didn't really know but you said kept on saying don't worry. Well, you and Elliot devised ways of getting it out there and it took off and it is continuing to take off. Yeah. So, it'll show Well, now I'm going to take this opportunity. So, it shows through February and here's two I'm asking for two things, three places. So, it's coming to Austin on January 27th at the Paramount. Huge theater. If you all are in Austin, we want you all to come out to the Paramount. Ellie and I plan to go there. We plan to go to the next day, the 28th in Dallas. It's playing at the State Theater. We want people in Dallas to come out to that movie. And then it's also in Bend, Oregon. That's another place where we we're not going 34:02 to Bend, but there will be speakers there. Now, I've heard that it's going to Alabama. Yeah, it's going to be in Birmingham in the first week of um uh February. Dates to be determined. Bend is January 19th. So, all of this is on the website, the lastclassfilm.com. the lastclassfilm.com. But but the watch along was so great. So we did the watch along and I know so many of you joined. I just thought that was so cool. So we should do another one of those. How many people joined us in the watch along? So over 50,000 but at we had a peak live watch. We had one moment where the most people watching at that moment was over 37,000 of us on our laptops at home. We had people It was so fun to get Thank you for completing the survey if anyone completed the survey. Who watched it alone? Who watched it with other people? Who watched it on laptops? who watch it on TVs. We should do it again. We should do it again. We should do it again. We're going to do it again. Um, but it reminds me this year, another fact factor, another aspect of this year, uh, was the demonstrations. I mean, the the no king's demonstrations. The second 35:04 one, well, the first one was 4 and a.5 million people. The second one was 7.2 million people. That is the largest demonstration in American history. Heather I mean and if there is a third I think it's going to be there is going to be a third and also this coming year is the 250th anniversary of our country lot to reckon with and figure out obviously but I think that's a moment too and I know Trump has all this stuff planned and it's UFC fights and it's all you know kind of grim and evil and you know just very Trumpish Trumpish Trumpian um and so let's do some other stuff I want to think about what do we have to say on the 250th anniversary. I want to think about let's put our stuff on billboards. Let's do new stuff in 2026. It's also an opport it's an opportunity to talk about what this country really means, what our ideals really are, what we are committed to uh and also why we 36:07 love this country. Now that sounds Frank Capra corny, but I do love this country. I It has unbelievable faults and the Trump regime is showing it as it at its ugliest. But I think what is good about America is much more than what is bad about America, right? And uh I think it's an opportunity. We're going to run out of those. Oh, that's my dream. We need more hope. We need more um hope stones. It's just an opportunity uh to remind all of our all of us and and remind ourselves about what patriotism really means. And you've said this a number of times but or thousands maybe the importance of dialogue. So it's not just what you and 37:00 I find what have been the faults of this country but how we still find it within ourselves to still love this country but it's that other people are seeing that and it's people of different ages and faiths and races and you know professions just all of these classes in classes and so I want to have some I want to create something where we're looking at these different people are saying I still believe in America well it's an opportunity And I I think we'll take it. Um and one of the themes of this particular endofear session has been the irony paradox of how Trump has created opportunities. Y um one thing I I did want to say and you reminded me was that um it's important for all of us on the Democratic progressive side uh to remember that the MAGA faithful 38:01 really are not bad people for I mean they're they're they're people who have succumbed to Trump's lies. Uh but again we need to be empathic to the extent that we understand and they have been shafted for 40 years. Uh they have been on the losing end of the power struggle in this country as more and more wealth and more and more power move to the top. Uh the people behind Trump are the billionaires, the oligarchs, the people who really are making out like bandits who are corrupting the system and have been corrupting the system for years. Uh the people who are really in need are the people who are working job to job, paycheck to paycheck, the majority of Americans, uh this is no longer a large middle class. This is a nation that has a shrinking middle class uh with a group of people at the top who 39:04 are taking advantage and exploiting the rest of us and more and more people who are just barely holding on. That's what the affordability crisis is all about. We were talking a moment ago about Democratic themes, Democratic Party, progressive themes. Well, tie affordability to all of the other issues we have been talking about. That's what Democrats need to do. and you have what I'm hearing feels like empathy and this is something that Trump doesn't have. And so I think reminding ourselves that you know allow people to have the dignity to be who they are but also I mean certain things we can't or not are not allowed right I mean you can't racism you can't no you can't have you you you can't have you can have empathy for people who are misguided and misled. Um, this is not about tolerating racism or bigotry. No, no, that's very different. Right. I don't think we should tolerate. 40:04 No, we can't. But I do think we've got to find I don't know. We've got to find people and say we are seeing the same things here. He is trying to pretend that we don't. But if he's saying lies and not actually trying to do affordability, make your life affordable. Let's pay attention to that. Well, this is another reason you're going to put a stone in. put a stone in the old but but what I'm about to say is that when Trump keeps on saying the economy is doing wonderfully well and and everybody is prospering uh and we've never had it so good right most people know it's a lie because they have the daily experience of seeing prices of being consumers of struggling in this economy so he can't get away with it right okay so on threads for example a meta product we have Z Cayenne. Of course we do. Per the mainstream news, Black Friday was record-breaking. And then I roll emoji. Could it be people 41:05 are paying more because prices are higher? If I spent $3 on coffee before and now it costs 10, that's record-breaking. Wink emoji. It doesn't mean the economy is good. Just prices are higher. I hope that makes sense. It makes a lot of sense. Chin chin scratching emoji. It makes it makes a lot of sense. um because everybody is paying more for most goods and services. And around the holidays, we've seen these lists. The 30 most popular things are all over 20% on average more expensive because of the Trump tariffs and because of a labor shortage in terms of construction and food, food preparation, processing and actually prepar the restaurants. Uh, so people are in trouble and that labor shortage that I just referred to is because of Trump's immigration policies. 42:03 Yep. Yep. Uh, so you put all that together and everything costs more, right? And Mitt Romney wants to be taxed more. Mitt told us that this week. I thought that was actually nice amusing. Yeah. Because people, it seems like ancient history now when Mitt Romney ran for president. Yeah. He still has money is his point. You just want to I'm sure he does. I'm sure he does. Uh the marginal tax rate on the super rich um has not been down this low uh since before Harry Truman. No, I didn't know that. Yeah. Uh and for the rich to claim that they can't pay more Yeah. is absurd. Well, exactly. So, so again, one of the one of the reasons for hope, Michael, I'm sorry. Uh, one of the reasons for hope uh at the end of 2025 going into 2026 is that 43:01 people understand that the billionaire class is not only behind a lot of this, but also is doing extraordinarily well. We need a wealth tax. We need to make sure that they pay their fair share. There's no way uh we can get the national debt and the deficit down and do everything we need to do as the richest country in the world for all the people that need uh help. I mean, child care and elder care and and and Medicare for all and all of the things that every other country provides, you know, the paid family leave. This is absurd that we are not providing it in this country and we can provide it if the rich pay their fair share of the taxes. Right? So, we had a question here. I think we might have just answered Vern's question from Facebook. Can you create a balanced budget that provides universal healthcare and universal childhood and a 44:02 national housing strategy? I'm assuming the numbers would come from the untapped billionaire citizens, possibly starting with tax percentages similar to pre-tax cuts for them. Yes. Blah blah blah. If you find money, maybe add free education. Instead of keeping people scared of social hybrid politics, show how it is possible. Well, not only is it possible, but we did it, Heather. I mean, this is something that people forget. Even as recently as the pandemic, we brought childhood poverty down to half. We haved it by 50%. Now it's back up again because a lot of those subsidies having to do with the pandemic were withdrawn. But it shows us that poverty, even child poverty, is a political decision. It's a political choice. Uh you know, hunger is a political choice. uh lack of housing, lack of uh affordability is a political choice. Uh we can change it and what Democrats have 45:04 to do and and forget the corporate Democrats, forget the the financial Wall Street Democrats that are never going to ever support this. But what Democrats must do is simply show America what we could be and the kind of lives we could lead uh if we reorganize the economy. Yeah. And I feel like we try and show in videos what this looks like. You know, create the future. You we will do even in 2026. Here's an education question from Blue Sky. Jackie, what do you see as the future of higher education in the US? Well, I think the future of higher education begins with the really the crown jewel of the entire system which is the community colleges of America. They are the unsung heroes. They do most of the work of of training, 46:01 developing uh investing in the human capital uh of poor families, working-class families. uh they make it possible for a third of my students uh juniors and seniors at Berkeley were transfer students from community colleges. Uh the University of California system is the biggest engine of upward mobility in the entire country. We ought to do more of it. We ought to make it more affordable. Yeah. And uh I think that the future of higher education basically uh is on the model of the community colleges that is inexpensive accessible to all. Yeah. Um speaking of so the last class our film we're trying to get it to more schools including community colleges. Mark Hamill reached out and said I would see the film and so we've sent it to him. We haven't heard back yet but he went to LACC Los Angeles City College. Um, and right now on the website, the lastclassfilm.com, we're encouraging people if you're affiliated with a 47:00 university, if you if you're a faculty, administrator, staff, um, whatever it might be, student, we're trying to get the film to more schools. Um, and we have a discussion guide that people can use. One thing that encourages me about we're going to run out this and this year is your your salesmanship heather when you talk about things that we are doing and you are again saluting you. You are the executive director of inequality media and inequality media civic action and you are the producer of the film the last class and you you have you get into these things and everybody out there sees it. You you see Heather's enthusiasm. You see her power motivated by you. No, I'm just Yes, I'm you know. But the movie has been fun. That watch along was fun. And so this coming year we want to try the team we work with is 48:00 so nimble and so committed and so willing to try new things and risk-seeking in a very healthy way because we are able to test so much before we do things. Well, inequality media civic action the entire team and there are only 10 of us. Yeah, I think when I last looked um I'm trying to hire a few more. Well, it's it's everybody is punching so far above their weight. And I I am grateful. Enormously grateful. And we're grateful for you for showing up and letting us I don't know. It's a partnership. It's so terrific. You Thank you. But you wrote the book on looking great. You wrote the Substack on Looking Great. I did last week. Um Okay. On Facebook, couple more questions. These are labor questions. Have Have to do it. Um Paul from Facebook local 354 Salt Lake City. Being in a union in a red state is strange. Many of the members are very proud to be union yet they vote against their own interests at the ballot boxes. My question is how should an individual 49:00 show them that they're voting against their own interests? Uh well it's a good question Paul from Salt Lake. I think the easiest and most direct way of showing people what their own economic interests and this is what we're talking about. People very often are pushed into uh doing things that are against their economic interests because they are seduced by bigotry, by emotional pitches, by lies. Uh, and I think that it's important for the rest of us who are not in the Trump administration, who are not part of this billionaire class, uh, to get the data, get the facts across. It's not that that that difficult, Heather, you and I do these videos and with our colleagues, uh, and they're fact-based. Yeah. Uh, you know, they're visual, they're 50:01 interesting. We have got to do more of them. Yeah. Because as we go into 2026, my hope is that and again the Democrats and progressive Democrats take over both houses of Congress. Uh that they along with independents really restrain Trump and create the space for some really progressive policies. Will you write a children's book with me? Of course. Why should How? What? Well, we can the details. I think I I I think that our children need to be educated in civic virtue in what it means to be a citizen. Uh some examples of the common good and what we owe each other as members of the same society. This also this also is becoming something that is clear as a question because of Trump. Mhm. I mean I don't I mean we all of us always asked us I'm not a poliana but I do think that 51:05 but these dark periods of time this dark year is bringing out so many of these questions and uh young people who I teach and even younger people who I know you know grandchildren of my friends and my own grandchild uh they're activist and they're asking these questions. What does it mean uh to be a member of this society? And what is the larger purpose? Right? Isn't there something above me? Yes. That's not evil. Exactly. What's the larger meaning of a society? Why do we join together? Uh and what is our responsibility to the rest of the world? Yep. Yep. Okay. Let's see. Let's a couple more things. What can we do? What can we do? And then I love this. A couple people said, 'Is there anything positive?' I need to hear something optimistic. I am I know we've done it. 52:02 We look at You've been pretty optimistic. I've been upbeat because I I do feel upbeat. I mean, I I I feel that we survived 2025. I feel as though it could have been far worse. It has been cruel. I mean, it's been worse than you thought. Awful. Oh, it was it's it's when we came into this year uh when Donald Trump was just about inaugurated, I knew it was going to be bad. Heather, it has been worse than I expected. He has with the acquiescence and of a Republican Congress done uh really almost transformed this country in the global impact too. We have to mention especially because of Doge and USAD. Well, USAD is is a is a moral collapse. It is a it is a I mean, we were doing so much good through USAID at a very low cost. I know 53:04 many people assume that it's a big portion of the federal budget. You know, foreign aid was a a little bit more than half a percent of the federal budget. And it was it was this kind I mean you hate to do but when you study public policy you have to think about where is the money going but it was such a good use of dollars to save lives. We had programs that were proven to work nutrition programs for children and maternal health um strategies so fewer women were dying in childirth. I mean just so many it was it was important. It is good. we can we can and should revive it uh when sane people once again run the government. I hope that happens. Uh but it was not only good in terms of the recipients of the aid. It was also good because as Joseph Nye, professor at Harvard uh used to say, America's soft power is as important if not more important than our hard power. It's not our bombs. 54:04 It's not our bullets. Uh it's it's our moral authority in the world uh that is critical to our trustworthiness security. Yeah. Um so I think that that is something that was sacrificed. Yeah. And was a horrible part of this year, right? Um I don't know about you, Heather, and we should probably wind this up. I think it's 2026. Did the ball drop? We've been here a while. Um, but let me let me first of all I want to May I thank you? Yes. A second time. A third time. Fourth time. Who's counting? Wait, we have two. Should we put Okay, I'm just going to throw these in there so that we're done. I'm so glad that you and I meet for coffee. We'll continue to do it, right? Of course, we're going to continue to do it. This is the last one of 2025, but let's launch. Um but um and I also want to thank all our colleagues at Inequality Media Civic 55:05 Action. Uh I want to thank uh today Nick Blonde has been behind the camera as well as uh our colleague Michael Lahannes Calderon. Uh Michael's such a star. Michael is a star. He's a star. And Emily, well Naomi Bradford has done editing for us. Uh and uh well Vish Shankar was here. Yeah. And has done so much research for us. I mean the whole team. Dan Davis and Katie Parker. Katie Mils. Katie Mil. You know that Katie Mils? Uh she has a relative. Do you know a Mil? Yeah. Winnie the Pooh. Yeah. That's Katie Mils. Yeah. Well, he's the author of Winnie the Pooh. Yes. That's right. He's not Winnie himself. He isn't. Um anyway, she's related to a Milan. Um, but I want to thank all of our colleagues and all of our good friends and I want to thank you. It has been a hell of a year. 56:06 It's been maybe the worst year I remember in terms of public policy and in terms of leadership. Uh the person in the Oval Office is a let us be clear and not mince words a loathsome individual and it's not just his character and temperament that are loathome his instincts and the policies that are emitting from the Oval Office and around him through people like Steven Miller and people who are in his cabinet RFK Jr. uh and our secretaries Gnome and Rubio and others. Uh we could not have in my 57:00 humble opinion uh a more dangerous group of people. But what I want to reassure you about is is a couple of things. Number one, although you obviously like me, like Heather, have had moments of real true despair. You are not alone. You are not crazy. A majority of Americans, if the polls, and I'm not talking about one poll, I'm talking about polls across the board, can be believed, most people in this country think the direction we are now going in is wrong, is immoral, and is dangerous. If democracy means anything at all, if the idea of self-government means anything at all, and it must, this regime will not continue to have 58:08 free reign as it has in 2025. You and your organizing and mobilizing and your energizing have had a huge impact on restraining on beginning at least to restrain this regime. It's because of you. Starting with the no kings demonstrations and your boycots of companies that are enabling this administration and that are shafting their workers and your telephone calls to your members of Congress and you're attending the meetings, the town halls of your members of Congress and you're creating good trouble and your voting and your organizing and mobilizing for critical special elections and mayoral and gubernatorial elections. You are the real stars. You are the leaders we've been waiting for. And so if there is a hero in 2025, it's you. Thank you.

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