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Date: 2025-10-14 Page is: DBtxt003.php txt00029124

COMMENTARY THE COFFEE KLATCH ... SEPTEMBER 13TH 2025 with Robert Reich and Heather Lofthouse What’s Driving Division in America? PLAY YOUTUBE VIDEO Original article: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CVs1QmWYFmE
What’s Driving Division in America? \| The Coffee Klatch with Robert Reich Robert Reich 1.31M subscribers The Coffee Klatch with Robert Reich I’ve witnessed 50-plus years of politics. I lived through the unrest of the 1960s and 70s. I wanted to use this week’s Coffee Klatch to provide some context for this dangerous moment we’re facing right now. Explore the podcast The Coffee Klatch with Robert Reich Peter Burgess COMMENTARY Peter Burgess Transcript 0:00 And it is the Saturday coffee clutch with Heather Loft House and yours truly, Robert Rich. Heather, it's been a tough week. Whoa. Are you okay? I'm okay, but I'm scared, honestly. Well, it's scary. I I mean, I'm scared at how thin our civic culture seems to be. I mean, we're just uh you know, a a a a heinous shooting causes uh just this wild uh divisiveness to be even worse. That's it. It feels exacerbated and people are more confused than they were. Uh how are you? I'm okay. I'm okay. But I've been I've been thinking about the question of political violence. Uh, not a happy question, but I'm not sure that there is more now. I mean, the the consensus is there's been a huge increase in political violence, but I'm old enough. Yes. Let's talk about this. I'm not old 1:02 enough. I am old enough that before your time. I mean, I was a young person in the 60s when Martin Luther King Jr. was assassinated and Robert F. Kennedy was assassinated. Uh and then uh some years later, almost I guess a decade later, Harvey Mil was assassinated. And John F. Kennedy, you forgot him. He was That's right. I mean, the first big assassination of my lifetime. Uh and every one of those was was frightening, was awful. Um but and those were elected officials, right? Because there was elected officials. But uh also even before that in 1964 um a fellow who was one of my protectors because I was very short and I very often asked older boys to protect me u named Mickey Schwarner uh was was was murdered uh trying to register voters in 2:01 Mississippi uh by the Klux Clan. Talk about violence. Talk about political violence. him and others uh two other civil rights workers as well. Uh I mean it makes me remember this whole question of political violence that we are a very violent culture. But how is it different now? I mean has social media I mean I wasn't alive then. I will remind you of that multiple times on this conversation. Um but so what is it I mean does it feel what did it feel like back then? It felt absolutely frightening, disorienting, and you'd listen to the radio and you'd look in the newspaper and you'd talk to friends and and the television. I remember um sitting there with my father watching television when uh Lee Harvey Oswald was assassinated and Leo Harvey Oswald had assassinated John F. Kennedy and he was assassinated on television. I mean, right there by a fellow named Jack Ruby. Uh and my father, you know, was just and 3:02 I sitting there watching this, we thought the country was nuts coming apart. Um and again in in ' 68, I had the same feeling after Martin Luther King Jr. and Robert F. Kennedy were assassinated. I thought this place, this country, um I love America, but it is nutsy, nutso. I mean, guns, uh and now of course even more guns. And what did you do? So what did you do after that? I mean you woke up the next day. What did everyone do then? Well, I think there was a sense of of total shock and helplessness and vulnerability. I mean uh everybody remembers now who was alive at the time John F. Kennedy's assassination. Um I was in high school. I mean there was a everybody was crying. I mean teachers were crying. Um everybody on the bus was crying. I just remember tears everywhere. This is what my mom has always told me too because she kind of explained it all to me and then we saw all the movies 4:03 and and and it just seemed impossible. Uh this young man, John F. Kennedy, who we all, you know, when you have a president like that, you you project all of your hopes on him and his young wife and everybody else uh involved uh in that administration. we uh we had projected all our hopes. Uh so that assassination was I guess the beginning of our loss of of innocence in a way. Uh but again, thinking back on America and thinking back on our history of slavery and our history of uh seeking to essentially wipe out our indigenous um Native American population, uh which was a a a a violent, you know, the most violent act. I mean, here in California, you can't imagine the the violence that was condoned. Um, this is a violent 5:04 country, Heather. I mean, let's let's not make any bones about it. This is uh there's a deep streak of of horrific violence uh toward black people uh toward immigrants. It goes way back. But it felt like I don't know this week has been so eyeopening to your point. I mean, I keep thinking back to what you're describing. What did So then Lynden Johnson gets sworn in right immediately. But what so what did the what did he do? What was society what was the was the vibe not as divisive? It was not nearly as divisive. And I say vibe on purpose because it feels like social media. Well, it certainly was divisive in terms of north and south, right? Uh and at that time when John F. Kennedy was assassinated, the South was mostly Democratic, right? uh the north was mostly Republican. Um there was huge racial tension in America. Um and I remember 6:06 that Lynden Johnson did use in a way use the Kennedy assassination as a pretext for moving forward uh with the Civil Rights Act and the Voting Rights Act. And uh even when my friend Mickey Schwerner was murdered, uh Lynon Johnson, that was just on the eve of the Civil Rights Act. I mean, he made speeches about the sacrifices that people were making uh to achieve civil rights and voting rights. Uh there was still much more of a sense of unity in the country. Obviously, we didn't have social media. We had Edward Aruro and Walter Kankite. And we had we had leaders leaders not necessarily politically leader but they were leaders who helped remind the country that we were in the same uh in the same kind of experiment together experiment in terms 7:03 of a democracy. Um and I think that's one of the big differences today. Not so much social media. Obviously, that is a big difference, but we don't any longer have a leader um who reminds us that we're in it together, who heals the wounds, who does even what Abraham Lincoln did in the Civil War, which is said, you know, with with malice toward none, trying to bring us together. No, we have a leader who in response to the assassination of Charlie Cook, Kirk said exactly the reverse. I mean said this is about this is all because of left leftist um you know perpetrators these this is the uh the radical left right and it feels like I mean it's interesting because I do think we're looking for a kind of parent figure I mean you ex I would hope that there would be someone who would say okay enough is enough these are our values this is this is a bigger picture but 8:02 that is exactly not what's happening well no and I think that the tradition traditional role of president in the United States. The norm the normal the norm. I mean we we are reminded of what the norms are because of the breaking of the norm. We didn't even people took for granted so much u before Donald Trump. Uh and the norm that we've took for granted is that a president's role in times of strife and stress and and and polarization uh and events like emergencies and chaos in this was to reassure the country and to uh remind us of what we have in common and to heal the wounds. Uh and I think that that's what we understood part of a very major part of a president's role to be. Uh because there are ideals that hold us together. There are hopes that hold us together. Um you know on my book tour I talked to a lot of people who said to me that they were Republicans 9:04 uh but professed to have very similar values. Right. Well, it's the common good, not the common bad. It's the common good, Heather. It is a common good. Uh and yes, we have polarized politics. And what happened in the House on the House of Representatives Wednesday night after uh there was an attempt to have some sort of a response to the assassination of of Charlie Kirk. Um you know, the whole place blew up uh in partisan anger. Well, I don't think that really reflects the average American. I think the average American is trying to do the best job he or she can possibly do to hold their family together, to to put food on the table, to pay the rent, to to be a good neighbor, to be a good parent, uh to u to to really uphold values that we in many ways have together. I mean there there are differences obviously key differences 10:04 but the the most important aspect of a democracy is that we agree on how to resolve our differences. Uh not that we don't have differences but we agree that we're going to resolve our differences through something called a democratic process. Right? The means for discussion. We kind of decide we agree to the rules. Right? We agree to the rules. We don't necessarily like the rules. uh we don't like what comes out of the process all the time. Some of us I mean the the the abortion would be a good example uh in terms of the country very very divided over uh whether a woman should be able to have an abortion or when uh the Supreme Court makes a decision in 1973 and then the Supreme Court changes it. Uh and there's a lot of tumult uh but most people say okay well that's the rule of the land. uh I don't like it, but I'm going to live with it. I'm going to And then you find different levers, 11:02 right? There's the state level, there's nonprofits, there's and and and the genius of the system to the extent that there is a genius behind the system of government is that you have all of these checks and balances or we had all the checks and balances. Uh and you also have federalism. You have different layers of government capable of doing different things uh for different populations. uh but we seem to have come to a point where nobody or very few people trust the outcomes. Very few people trust even the process any longer. Uh now I would say that that's a huge consequence of money in politics over the last 40 years. Yeah. I mean we you and I have talked about it. I saw the beginning. Uh it's just a just a a gusher of money. uh and that has distorted politics and made people afraid and made people angry and made people feel like the system is rigged against them. And it is rigged. It the system is definitely rigged, but 12:04 I think it's so hard not to tease out what's reality and what's a conspiracy theory now. And to your point, the data, what do the data show about political violence and is this we can all agree this what happened this week is horrific and this poor man's children, I mean, it's awful. Um, but was it a lone actor? I mean, more is going to be revealed. Or is it part of a bigger trend? And I think we have to we got to pay attention to what is actually happening and not fall for people who are painting a false picture. Right? Most of the political violence that we've seen certainly over the last few years is lone actors. Uh now we do have instances such as the assault on the US capital January 6 on January 6, 2021 uh which is not a lone actor or to the extent that there's any lone actor behind it that lone actor is now in the 13:02 oval office. Uh but most of the political violence directed historically has been lone actors. uh people who are not fully mentally uh able to make decisions that they should make plus the availability easy availability of guns. Uh and those two together have created a mixture that is not new to America. That's my point. This which is depressing. This goes well it is depressing and our inability I watched it and you there was a school shooting right on the same day that Charlie Kirk was murdered on the same day um a a school shooting not very much publicity given to the school shooting uh and we are again talk about norms uh the norm has almost shifted so that we expect school shootings uh which which is which is frightening um I'm you know I'm a grandfather of somebody in school you're a mother of somebody in school. 14:02 Um, you know, we don't want to even think about the possibility of that our children or grandchildren and I don't want them to have to think about it and they shouldn't have to think about it either. Um, and do drills and Well, again, again, it is a violent culture, but but listen to what Donald Trump had to say. Do I have to? Well, I I want to I want to say this because because it is an example of what we're up against. U and this is Wednesday night right now. This is the president of the United States. He says uh that uh for years those on the radical left have compared wonderful Americans like Charles and he talked about Charlie Kirk uh to Nazis and the world's worst mass murderers and criminals. This kind of rhetoric is directly responsible for the terrorism that we're seeing in our country today and it must stop right now. 15:02 Well, we can agree that there is no place in America for political violence. I mean, let's all agree. Let's stipulate that. but to blame one side of a political conflict. And by the way, you know, Donald Trump when he says and he uses the term radical left, he has described the entire Democratic party as the radical left. Right. So when he Right. There's no nuance. There's no there's I mean nuance, right? Right. I mean, you're talking about somebody who does doesn't do nuance, doesn't know nuance. Uh but to actually uh to fan the flames of partisanship seems to me to be out of the gate the height the height of irresponsibility. Um you know at least you had the governor of Utah who very very responsibly Republican who stood there and said no this is we must not allow this to uh to create more partisan violence. Right? He referenced the assassinations of in the '60s and gave a historical context. Very responsible and I think calling out 16:07 politicians who were actually fanning the flames, fueling violence. Uh so what do we do, Bob? Well, I I think one thing that's very very important is that the public has got to see uh Republicans, people so on the right or whatever we however we want to define the right and people who are Democrats or people on the left, progressives uh talking to each other civily modeling uh a kind of civil discussion discourse. Do we have to have someone here on the clutch? We should invite someone. I think we might. I think we should. I think that's a good idea. Uh but because part of democracy is democratic deliberation and discourse discourse u but deliberation is very specific right you're setting up conversation and analytical back and forth they're thinking uh you know I tell my 17:02 students uh always in fact I taught yesterday even though I'm retired uh the best way of of of of understanding your own position is to talk with somebody who disagrees with you. Uh because that that makes it imperative that you uh you you check your assumptions, you check their assumptions. Uh there's a possibility of having an open mind and you have to have an open mind and and be able to to change your assumptions. Um and and I think that we've lost the art of deliberation. We've lost the lost the art of democratic deliberation. And this is this predates social media, Heather. I remember I was on in the 80s uh I started to in the 70s and 80s I started go on television and I would be involved in yelling programs. I mean there just yelled people on the other side uh the conservatives and I we would just yell and I remember one particular program uh 18:03 when we all had little earbuds connected to a producer and I would be uh yelling at somebody and then we we we discovered on this one particular program how much we agreed uh and I said well you're absolutely right and he said you know I was going to say that to you too isn't that great and we started agreeing and in my earbud the producer said stop agreeing Stop. Stop. Start yelling. We want more yelling. We want more disagreement, right? Too civil. Too civil. Because you see views. The notion was that anger was monetized. Anger would generate more revenue. People are going to change the channel if you're just agreeing. Exactly. It wasn't entertainment enough. This is the era of Rush Limbo. This is the era and Bill O'Reilly in the early days, right? Roger Als. Well, in 1996, Roger Als took over the reigns uh at the start of Fox News uh and loved loved 19:01 what what what Limbo was doing on the radio and thought, well, let's let's let's use that same formula of of anger and and and humor that was really ridicule directed at the left. And maybe we can, you know, do exactly what he's doing on the radio in a bigger way on television. And he was right. He was right and he did it sadly. Okay. So, deliberation, more deliberation. And I think you mean personally, right? I do feel like it's hard even with family members who disagree. A lot of people, we just don't do politics. We just don't do politics. We do everything but politics. So, personal deliberation we need to get better at. But then in our democracy, I mean, you watched the Supreme Court this week making fascinating decisions that we didn't know was happening. The Supreme Court is a good example of where we have the norm used to be that the court if it was making a controversial decision especially uh it 20:01 would lay out its reasons. uh a Supreme Court opinion was critically important because of the way the court arrived at its conclusion. Right. And it describes it and has it in writing so we can all learn from that in law school and otherwise. That's right. And it wasn't just law school. I mean we we I mean I remember it sounds a little quaint now but being involved in discussions with friends about what the court decided and the and the reasons that it used and sometimes the reasons were pretty compelling even though we didn't agree with the conclusions. Uh but now the court is using the so-called shadow docket. It's making controversial decisions uh but it's not explaining them. And if you don't explain your controversial decisions, then you're leaving the public completely on the public's own. I mean, you can come up with conspiracy theories galore. Right. And it's the same confusion, uncertainty. Exactly. Worry. When you get to that stage of confusion and uncertainty and worry and you don't 21:04 know why things are being done or that they're being done, it feels very that's when conspiracy theories thrive. Yeah. flower and uh it's you know why I mean John Roberts uh the chief justice of the Supreme Court you know one of his major responsibilities is to assure the public that the court is thinking that it has a logic that it has some justification uh because the court the Supreme Court has no army uh it has no ability to uh fund anything right it has reason it has premises and conclusions and we get to watch That's all it has. And so for this week, uh, it had a whole variety of shadow docket decisions, uh, that backed up, you know, things that the administration was doing with no reason. Remind us when you were at the hearing for John Roberts. What was that like? 22:00 Well, I did testify and I testified against him uh because I had gone through his record and found somebody who seemed to me to be uh not a bad guy. I mean, he actually people liked him. uh but somebody who was out of the mainstream of American discourse uh so far to the right uh wanted to centralize power in the in the president in ways that seemed to be you know at that time very very radical. Uh he also was coming down so hard as a judge on certain defendants uh that seemed to be again way out of line with what the normal mainstream American uh value was. Um and so I testified I tried to be balanced. I tried to be reasonable but I testified against him. So interesting. Had no kind no effect whatsoever. Well, 23:01 I mean, I think you've said your piece. That's the point of a hearing. You were there and other people were there. That's the point of the hearing. But it's the the Roberts court will go down in history, I think, uh, as one of the weakest, if not worst, Supreme Courts. Uh because the the Supreme Court, you know, I I used to argue before the Supreme Court and the Supreme Court um understood, again, I don't want to sound like I'm I'm a typical old fart who just as you're an atypical old fart. I've always told you that. That's such a nice thing for you to say. Thank you. Mhm. Um, so as an atypical fart, uh, you know, I I remember the Supreme Court being a a court that overall understood its role to protect the minority from majoritarianism. Uh, and that minority was a black minority or it was a uh, a brown minority, people of color. It was often women. uh but the it understood its its role in the system of power uh 24:03 to guard people that didn't have power. Uh and now the supreme sup Supreme Court is just the opposite. Now the Supreme Court seems to believe uh that it is constitutionally obligated uh to interpret statutes and the constitution in ways that support power. Right? I looked up political assassination yesterday because I was so curious and this, you know, we're still more is being revealed and we need to find out, you know, what exactly happened if we can ever find it all out specifically. But it mentioned a few categories of what counts as counts as a political assassination. And one of the things was a murder that has to do with someone trying to reallocate power or making a statement about power, which I thought was so interesting. That is interesting. Well, it's it's too easy, I think, to assume that every act of violence is a political act of violence, right? I mean, you have got to look at the motive uh to rush to 25:04 judgment over Charlie Kirk's uh assassination and and assume even before the evidence was in, even before they had a suspect uh that it was political assassination or political violence, I I think was uh was unfair and unfair. But then people love to do that and then say told you so. So it feels like a double gotcha. Yeah. Absolutely. And u you know Charlie Kirk himself was a very controversial figure. Um he was not a martyr. He is not a martyr. I think the New York Times had a great article that was this is where he stood on things like race, immigration, climate, women, abortion, you know, it's his views were very strong. His views were strong and they were talk about out of the mainstream. Exactly. I mean they were pretty far to the right and he was a very very close ally of Donald Trump. Uh but still political violence is political violence. There is 26:02 no place for it regardless of what you think and what you believe and who you dislike. Uh and uh it it it it's a tragedy. I mean clearly it is a tragedy. I know it's a tragedy for the country. So what else do we do? So you said deliberation. We need to remember that we are founded a democracy requires ample deliberation and the setup to be able to do that. And I think when I I want to go a little bit deeper on that point, Heather, because we assume that democracy is just about voting. If it's just about voting, you know, we could have a system conceivably at some time in the future where everybody on their iPhone, you know, was asked how they feel about a particular issue and bing, you do it from phone in voting. Phone in voting. You literally phone in voting about everything. That's not democracy. A democracy also requires some thought, some willingness to 27:00 understand the issue and ability to change your mind or change your views if there are good arguments on the other side. So it is both voting, it's also deliberating. It's a process. It's respecting a process of uh of of your representatives and it's work courts. It's a lot of work and it is not a spectator sport. It is work. It's work to do it. It's work to defend it. Yep. And maybe uh you know when I when I get into my rosecolored glasses or my I'm going to get you a pair my silver lining. Get you a pair of rosecolored glasses. I know. I say to myself, well, when we get through this horrible period of time, assuming we get through it, uh not only will people understand the meaning of a lot of things that we're taking for granted, like democracy and due process and the rule of law, but people will understand how important it is to fight for and be diligent about and watch 28:02 carefully to preserve uh these democratic institutions and to participate and be active and be active and be active. You know, we tend to say somebody is an activist. Uh well, we we all need to be activists. There shouldn't be just a little group over here who are activists, quote unquote. Uh and activism means what do you think act I mean for you? What does activism mean? Well, I have an example from the week which was the last class film which we've talked about and I don't want to talk about that now but there was an event where someone from the community brought this film to Falsam California and she considers herself an activist. She's very um engaged in her community. She's engaged in democracy. She's done get out the vote campaigns. She um is a violinist in her local orchestra. I mean she is community engaged. I think part of activism has to do with that. But she said, 'I decided to bring this film here.' And she sold out the theater to the point that she had to get a second bigger one. And she met all these new 29:05 people who were coming out to have conversations and community. Yeah. To get reinvigorated and say, 'What gives us hope? What is democracy? What are we doing?' And there were some fruitful conversations in the lobby outside of the theater. And it was interesting. People were debating things. There were people talking about Gaza and Israel. I was in one conversation about that. And they weren't people weren't high-fiving and feeling exactly the same on that issue. They were hearing each other out. Um, and it was a sense of bringing together community in real life, which we do not enough I think in real time. Well, that's that's interesting. I would add that I think fairly to what democracy requires that is it needs to be rooted in community. It's rooted in a group of people who are living in proximity and are working together and are meeting together and are uh playing together and who know 30:03 each other not as as buddies but uh at least understand that they have a common good. That's where the common good begins in community and I think there are different roles to play and that's okay and that's fabulous. So this one person took on the mantle, did the organizing, was fed by it, you know, negotiated with the theater, got the other things, signs, microphones, blah, blah, blah. And then other people said, 'I can't do that, but I'm going to show up and I'm happy to show up.' And so it was a it's a mix of participation, but everyone was participating. And I think that's um that's that's again part of the notion of democracy is not everybody can be a leader. Not everybody can be and has the time or the will or the maybe even the talent to do it. Uh but we can all help. We can all show up. Showing up is a big part of it. I know. I think showing up and this I mean we could talk about the elections that we've been part of recently, but so 31:05 again, Donald Trump is not popular when you look at polls and specifically the economic polls. We haven't even gotten into economics this week. I don't think we should. Can we wait till next week? We can uh because I think that people really are still in a state of of shock, not only about Charlie Kirk's assassination, but also about the response to it uh and how deeply the wound um is in terms of in terms of this nation. People have said to me over the last couple of days, are we going to face a civil war? Is this the beginning of a civil war? And I at first when it was first asked to me, I didn't know how to respond because I thought, how could we even contemplate a civil war? I mean, there's no it's not as if we're in uh in an economic calamity. Not as if outside forces are knocking on the there's not a world war. There's not a even a a there's not a great depression. There's not a you know a a a terrible uh 32:07 pandemic. uh what is what would what would what would possibly pull us apart? There are issues inside, right? But um but we could be moving toward a kind of state of deep deep distrust. Red state, blue state, red city, blue state, blue city. Uh because our there there are no leaders who are pulling us together. There are no leaders who are reminding us of our common good, right? And and that is I think the biggest danger, right? Uh you know, here we are in California. Well, how much do we have in common with Kansas? We have a lot in common with Kansas. Kansas has Kansas. Why are you bringing up Kansas? Well, because there's a there was a book years ago called What's the Matter with Kansas? And I, you know, I was um years ago I was even before that book, I was 33:04 traveling across the country in my Mini Cooper. I had just bought a Mini Cooper. All right. Not the VW Bug cuz you wrote about that in your book. Yeah. No, this is a Mini Cooper. Okay. This is later. This is the first Mini Cooper. Very few. And I was in Kansas and I pulled up to a gas station and there was a line and some truckers came up and they knocked on my window and I lowered the window and I said, 'Can I help you?' And they said, 'What is this car?' Yeah. They had never seen it. And I said, 'Well, it's a it's a Mini Cooper.' And then they said, and these are these big, you know, trucking people. They said, 'How does anybody fit in there?' And did you step out? I I I tada I did I did I stepped out and you said hop in I said no problem they and they and then I said and I I shouldn't have said this I said I'm from Massachusetts and everybody from Massachusett should not have said that is he's is under 5t tall. No. 34:01 Yes. Anyway, u but uh but people around the country there are differences but the similarities are way outweigh course the differences and uh and even immigration you know a hot button topic. It's always been a hot button topic. Yes. Always. I mean we've had whenever since we first all immigrated here it was a hot button topic. Not all of us. I mean the native point indigenous people has been a topic for They're the only ones who have any kind of standing to object to immigration. But uh you know my great-grandparents came over here and uh you know not everybody was happy that they were here but uh we all as a nation we are a nation of immigrants and uh it's different I think European nations when they respond to immigration and they move to the right because of immigration uh are doing so in a slightly different way than we are uh in those European nations that have deep 35:04 long-standing thousand-year ethnicities, uh, immigrants pose a different kind of challenge than they do here. Uh, and, uh, it's always been a challenge here, but we've always met the challenge, not by saying no immigrants, uh, but by figuring out how to assimilate. Yeah. And it's hard to navigate. I mean, how are you consuming news these days? I mean, if you open up something like Twitter, god forbid, watching, I mean, it feels like people are just either saying we're right or you're wrong, right? It's like I I feel like I'm being screamed at in a lot of things. Sometimes in capital letters, right? I wonder who started that one. I know. Um Well, that's that's true. And I think that on social media, people do uh have an opportunity because they're anonymous many times uh to just vent. They just vent. There's a lot of venting going on. 36:03 Uh but Heather, I think that venting is different from where the typical person actually is. I think what we see when we look at the comments especially on some place like X which has become a cesspool after Elon Musk has kind of encouraged it to become a cesspool. Uh I think we see just the tip of the iceberg of of of particularly people who are so angry. Most people are not that angry. the the rest of the iceberg really is worried, fearful is fearful and fear is close to anger, granted. Uh but they are not univil, right? Well, I'm glad we did this. Well, I'm gl I'm glad too. I And thanks people for showing up. Yes. And thank to Thank you to all of you. Let me just make a a final observation if I may. Yes, please. You may. and I hope you have a good week coming. I I mean 37:04 it's got to be better. You too. Um but let me just say this to all of you. Um it has been a hard week obviously not just because Charlie Kirk was assassinated but also because the response to the assassination uh because of the uh deep divisions uh in perhaps your community, even your family uh exacerbated by all of this. But I hope for you, my wish for you is that you understand that far more unites us as a society, as a series of communities, as a polity, far more unites us than divides us. And there is very little to money to be made in finding those points of connection and unity. Uh but that may be part of the problem. I think that we as a society need to look for every way we can to remind ourselves of the values 38:07 that we hold in common, what that common good actually is. And it is especially difficult now when we have a leader and a regime that is doing everything it possibly can to pull us apart. One final thought. The oligarchy, that is the people who have never made as much money, the big corporations that are bigger than ever, they would like us to be divided. Because when we're divided, when we're angry with each other, when we make each other the enemy, when we demonize each other, we don't look upward and see where all the power and the wealth have actually gone. So, another reason not to be susceptible to this anger and this divisiveness. Heather, see you in a week. See you in a week. Take care.

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