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COMMENTARY THE COFFEE KLATCH ... AUGUST 23RD, 2025 with Robert Reich and Michael Lahanas Calderon The Great Gerrymander PLAY YOUTUBE VIDEO Original article: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dCRy36Dmjek
The Great Gerrymander The Coffee Klatch with Robert Reich August 23rd, 2025 1.3M subscribers ... 44,587 views ... 4.4K likes What in the world is happening in Texas — and what can Democrats do about it? Join us in the Lone Star State for this week's Coffee Klatch. How this content was made Auto-dubbed Audio tracks for some languages were automatically generated. Learn more Peter Burgess COMMENTARY I am a 'fan' of Robert Reich for many reasons. Maybe he reminds me of my own father who was an 'educator' and a great human being who together with my mother had very good and essential foundational values which I was introduced to at an early age! I was born in England early in WWII, and grew up in an England that had 'won the war' but at huge cost ... both human and financial. The impact of WWII on the United States was very different. The human cost was large ... but a much smaller percentage than in the case of the UK. While the 'financial' cost in the UK and Europe was devastating, the financial impact in the United States was massively positive. Most of the gold bullion at the Bank of England was shipped to the United States during the decade of the 1940s to pay America for the military equipment it delivered to the UK during the war I have an understanding of the impact of WWII that is very different from every American I have ever met. And it is getting worse as time goes by and Amerian veterans of WWII pass on. Most Americans who are now in the mainstream workforce have little knowledge of global events from 1945 to 1980. A lot happened in the decades before Ronald Reagan became President of the USA ... and post-Reagan, the US impact of world affairs has been expensive but not very effective. And Trump is making most everything far worse! I wish I could be optimistic. People like Robert Reich and his network of good Americans is encouraging ... but it is tiny relative to what is needed. Hopefully it is a start ... and something 'at scale' will soon emerge. Today I have listened (watched) the Ken Burns / PBS presentation of The Civil War ... which first aired some 25 years ago and now improved with better images. While it was wonderful to see this presentation, my thoughts about the state of the United States were very depressing. But is is not so much the actual state, but the general undedrstanding of the American populace about the state of their country and the state of the world. It annoys me intensely that though per capita the United States is very very wealthy, at the same time Americans are so unhappy and poorly informed. There was a well known financial figure, Gordon Gecko, back in Reagan times who famously said 'Greed is good!' See: https://www.youtube.com/shorts/kzKE-ErSBN0 but greed 'per se' is a disaster in the making and waiting to happen. In my lifetime, the United States has embraced greed above all. No wonder the place is in such a mess! Peter Burgess Transcript 0:00 It is the Saturday coffee with Michael Lahanos Calderon. Michael, thank you very much for joining us. It's my pleasure. Um and uh unfortunately Heather Loft House is not with us today, but we are here in Houston, Texas, the Empire Cafe. And the Empire Cafe, not only is coffee absolutely fabulous. Oh, it's lovely. But the Empire Caf's uh motto is corporate coffee sucks. pretty good motto I would say. I think it's I think sort of our motto too. Um but uh thank you for being with us here in Houston. Uh because Houston, Texas, in fact Texas has been very much in the news this week. U also I am blogging my new book and Texas is a wonderful place to promote the book. Uh Michael, what are we going to talk about today? while no shortage of things. But before we jump into it, I did want to ask, I mean, Texas, you're a 1:01 Californian. What are you doing here other than flogging your book? Look at the California and Texas are in the news because California is trying and I think it probably will succeed uh in counterveiling, counterbalancing what Texas is doing now with regard to coming up with additional representatives, right? And you got to understand this is all about gerrymandering. This is all about Donald Trump wanting to keep control of the House. Yeah. Uh and incidentally, not incidentally, the Senate uh in 2026. And we'll get into this. Yeah. That's that folds in nicely to our three big topics for today, which are well, one Texas gerrymandering, two, California not gerrymandering, counterbalancing, and of course, authoritarianism, Trump's rising authoritarian. Well, this is all about authoritarianism. Oh, of course. And that's that's that's the underlying in fact I've had so many discussions uh since I've been here over the last couple of days with the Texans 2:01 about about politics and about what they want from their politics. And uh so many people here are so upset about Greg Abbott and Trump and uh we forget we tend to forget that Texas is the seat of a lot of America's movements to just progressivism and freedom. Uh you remember Anne Richards a little before my time. Well, she know Betto AOR. Well, well, wait a minute before we go to debate. Okay. Yes. Anne Richards was governor of Texas in in the 90s and uh she was sassy and had great spirit and she uh I at the 1988 Democratic convention in Atlanta, I remember her saying uh she was talking about George HW Bush uh who was born with a uh a shoe in his mouth. Yeah. But you know, Lyndon Johnson, LBJ, LBJ, a Texan. Um, and we would not have 3:02 had the Civil Rights Act and the Voting Rights Act were it not for that progressivism. Uh, and so much of that era was about fair representation and fair maps. Right. Absolutely. It's kind of astonishing. maps and representation were at the core of what the turn of the century progression and a lot of the Texans were concerned about because Texan Texas was the lone star state. In fact, there are parallels between Texas and California at times both of those states both Texas and my state of California, your adopted state of California. That's true. uh actually tampered with the idea of being them, you know, not seceding but having their own nationality, not even joining the rest of each other. Uh so it's interesting that the two are now at the forefront of this uh epic struggle over jerry mandering and just Oh, go ahead please. No, I was going to ask you to give us some background about jerry. Well, 4:05 gerrymandering. I remember when I was in high school, this was something five years ago. Not that close ago. I mean, in the last decade, it was something that people were very concerned about. you know, independent redistricting commissions like the one that California has and many other states have been trying to have were a very popular reform idea because the idea of politicians drawing their own districts uh and essentially choosing their own constituents, which is what gerrymandering is, is something doesn't sound great for democracy. It inevitably uh means that some people are not going to be represented. Yeah. Now, you've got to understand in terms of how we have a winner take all district decisions and state decisions for both the House and the Senate, uh there are a lot of people that are going to inevitably not be represented because they're in the minority uh in a winner take all system. Uh but um the question is how you construct the districts the voting districts for the house in ways 5:03 that are legitimate and that are uh feel legitimate to most of the people. Uh I was chairman of common cause citizens lobby. Yes. And one former incarnation. Uh and gerrymandering is something that we strongly opposed. Correct. Uh in fact, we fought for independent commissions outside the politics uh that would uh really have the final authority and California was one of the victories. Yeah. But um what we have now, Michael, and you know this as well as I do, is we have such slim Republican majorities in the House and even in the Senate, uh that there is huge pressure Uh and the pressure is coming from Donald Trump who great a member. He is the man who stage very top. Yeah. Uh and stay in power at any cost. At any cost. Well, and if I could just a clarifying 6:05 question here, the we shouldn't even necessarily be talking about jerrymandering right now, right? In 2025, it's very unusual to redistrict in the middle of the cycle as I call like normally it's tied to the census, right? Every 10 years. Every 10 years. That's normally. But it's not legally required. Uh it's a norm. It's a norm. And a norm is in just what's expected expected what we normally do, right? Uh but uh like everything else, Donald Trump in his winner take ball, his win at any cost uh drive uh is challenging the norms. And he very clearly said to Greg Abbott, the governor of Texas, I want five more seats. Which again as a norm, right? You typically you don't see the president of the United States marching you know on truth social to a governor and saying hey give me five more seats you know typically I mean you never do exactly this is this is so far beyond the norms 7:00 I mean the president of the United States you know I have worked for and advised now four presidents uh what presidents normally do uh Richard Nixon was the exception uh is that they have some institutional responsibility to democracy Those are some big words. Are you sure that they're going to understand those in the Oval Office? Institutional respon I'm sorry, my eyes blazed over. No, no, wait a minute. I mean, they I I they they actually don't know what institutional responsibility is. But so here we are in Texas. What's been going on? So here's the skinny or I don't know that that's probably not what they say in Texas. What do you think they say? Here's the lowown maybe. Low down. Here's the lowown. So there are five additional seats at stake essentially in this redistricting push. uh that is by the time you know people are watching this probably has already happened which is why the efforts in California which we'll get to in a minute are also most likely moving forward. Um but they passed new maps earlier this week on Wednesday uh in the House and they passed them in the Senate later in the week and Greg Abbott, you 8:03 know, was set to immediately sign them right after. And he's not the only one, right? There's additional pressure on other states like Louisiana, Missouri, my home state of Ohio, um Indiana, Florida. I mean, it's just an acrosstheboard desperate effort. In in other words, if it succeeds this effort here in Texas without any counterbalancing on Californians, uh then we're going to see more and more blue states where you have a governor, a Republican governor, and Republican legislators actually go along. Uh and this is you know the logical end point to this is that you've got more and more people Democrats who not only feel disenfranchised but are disenfranchised. Do you have more and more safe districts in the House uh and more extremism? Yeah. Well, I wanted to ask you about in terms of what people can do to not feel distraught, disenfranchised. I mean well don't feel distraught. Well, 9:03 are you distraught lately? It depends on the day. I think it depends on the news of the day. But I've talked Well, I've been in Texas now rather just a few days. Uh I've had a number of terrific discussions with people. Uh Texans, number one, they're not all conservative. They don't all support Greg Abbott. Many of them, in fact, most of the people I've talked with are just the opposite. They are staunch progressives. They are fighters and they really don't want to live under authoritarian rule. And it's not just, you know, the average Texan, it's their Democratic representatives, too, right? We had Democrats leaving the state to go to Illinois last a week or so ago. Um, and the Democrat members of the Texas legislature, Texas House, they they left the state because they didn't want to give them a quorum, a Republican house to hold this vote about this these five seats. Yeah, this new map uh and then went up. 10:03 Well, then they came back and obviously the bill passed. But I this is a question that I had for you because I think I was seeing online there were a lot of people who were sort of confused about the process. Let's say it's like okay Democrats make this big show and an important one of saying no this is wrong. We are going to make a dramatic effort to slow the process but just given the numbers in the Texas House and Senate they can't really stop. So to you I ask professor yes former secretary of labor what's the point if they're going to give up as many people online are saying I don't think that's necessarily what happened you know but they're not giving up this is much of this is about educating the American public not just the Texas public is the American public and what is actually happening uh and the importance of fighting back against these authoritarian schemes that Donald Trump and Abbott and Republican governors are coming up with Al even though you don't win and I've 11:03 said this over and over and over again. It is important to fight because showing that you are fighting and the national Democrats have got to do the same thing. Showing that you're fighting uh inspires people. Uh it it teaches them. It gets them uh you know we have a fighting chance if people are fighting and it draws attention too, right? Well, that's part of it. I mean, in other words, it's all about drawing attention. It's I mean, you can't teach people can't learn unless you're drawing attention. Uh Nicole uh Collier. Yes. Yes. The Texas representative of the Texas uh legislature, she actually this week and everybody's talking about it. I mean, people around here are talking. uh she uh refused to leave the legislature, the actual the state house in Austin. Uh well, because they were saying you need a permission slip to leave and a police escort. And she felt that that was unconstitutional. It it it kind of uh it 12:04 was oppressive. Yeah. And she's she's absolutely right. Yeah. I mean, I think that it's it's part of the acrosstheboard rising authoritarian tendencies of the Republican party, Rit Lar, right? That this kind of behavior is encouraged both at the federal and the state level. Yes. And this is why it is so important uh that she did what she did, uh that the Texas Democrats did what they did even though they failed. uh and that um and it's even more important that so-called blue states uh like like California are challenging all of this. But here's the important point in terms of avoiding a race to the bottom among the states you know gerrymandering to the point where you know we are gerrymander beyond belief. Yeah. Uh what's what what the blue states need to do, California is doing this very carefully, is say essentially to Greg Abbott and Texas and the red states um we are only we are only going 13:04 to jerrymand to the extent that you do. In other words, we are going to remove any advantage you gain from jerryming. We're going to make the whole effort that you're going through uh we're going to neuter it. going to basically make it a complete sh and purpose it and that's important. That's not a race to the bottom. Quite the contrary, that is an attempt to preserve the market. And for those who missed the details on the California redistricting plan, which did move this week, it was a package of, I believe, three bills that make up what will be ultimately a constitutional amendment on the ballot in California in November. Uh and that is a balancing act, right? It's five additional Democratic seats essentially to balance the five roughly Republican seats in Texas. Um it only applies uh to mid decade redistricting which allows the state to revert back to the independent commission in 2030. And and that's important because the temporary quality what what the 14:06 Democrats what California and other Democratic states that are considering this are signaling is that this is temporary. It is only triggered by Republicans. When Republicans do this and the Democrats are only going to do it to the extent that Republicans do and only with the consent of the people of California, it's going to the ballot. Right. Yeah. That is not the case in California or excuse me in Texas where they're locking representatives in the state house. Right. Yes. But but that's because California has no choice. It's built in. Oh, I'm I'm simply contrasting, you know, let's say the styles of politics. I I mean there's a there's a larger interesting question about Texas and California because California is let's face let's face it a high tax state and there are a lot of public amenities that are not found in Texas. Texas is a low tax state. There are a number of very wealthy individuals who have left 15:03 California uh and settled in Texas. Uh in fact um some of them run rocket companies. Yeah. Some of them are your best friends on the internet and actually and uh I mean Elon Musk has has blazed the way blazed the trail in terms of norm busting just like Donald Trump. Uh and Musk you know basically he starts his own city in Texas Starbase Texas formerly I think part of Bokhica Texas. Yeah. I've been down there by the way. Did you know that? No. unimpressed. There's not much there. I doubt that there's anything there. You just just some rocketsy sand. U some very distressed locals. Well, I mean, Musk says, uh, you don't need much more than rockets and snap. You just certainly don't need empathy. Uh, I mean, one of his one of the one of one of his interviews that I I came across recently uh was that empathy gets in the way. Empathy 16:03 gets in the way of of profits of of of efficiency. Oh, I see. Of profits of of all of making everything work of technology. So I I think the it's a charact it's a caricature of Texas to say that that's what Texas is. But uh in many ways there is a very important contrast. These are two gigantic states. California if it were a separate economy would be the fourth largest economy in the world. It's a lot of money. Well, it's significant and I I want to broaden this out a little bit because you you talked about and you talked about this last night um because you were here for a book tour at the Houston Progressive Forum that the Jerry Mandering is just one part of a threeprong strategy uh that Donald Trump has to, you know, secure the role of the presidency for himself for I mean, God knows how long he really wants. But could you tell us a little more about that? Well, I I I I do so reluctantly because I think it's it's it's an awful thing, but we have to we have to know it. We have to understand it. We've got to 17:03 stand up to it. Yeah. You know, uh number one, it is the gerrymander. Uh number two, it's attacking uh votes and voting in terms of bailin votes and also voting machines. It's already on there. Now, legally, you know, constitutionally, it's up to the states. It's not not up to, you know, the president. He can't by executive order rule out mail in votes. Uh which by the way this was something that after his conversation with Putin earlier this week he said oh this is a grand idea Putin told me well Putin and look at he's a huge friend of democracy I believe right this we are living in an era of authoritarians uh of uh I don't nefascists and Putin and uh one of his close friends Donald Trump exemplify this I mean others like Netanyahu yes uh also exemplified this strong Exactly. Well, strong so postponed. Uh so his second strategy is to get rid of mail 18:05 and voting and attack voting rights, the voting machines, which he again legally can't do. He's got to try to do. Uh and the third strategy is to occupy a major city run generally by Democrats and generally voting democratic. Right. Exactly. that are, you know, the centers of democratic voting in America are the big cities are New York, Washington, uh Boston, uh Los Angeles, uh Chicago, and uh Oakland, California. These are places he has talked about putting federal troops, ICE agents and National Guard. Uh he's expanding all of this. Uh other red states are sending National Guard. I mean it it's it would sound like a bad dream. Yeah. If it weren't actually happening. Uh and I think all of this is in preparation 19:02 for 2020 2026. Remember this is a man who staged a coup or an attempted coup in 2020. He went to secretaries of state uh and to governor. He said, 'Give me x number of votes so I can counteract the results of the election.' He said to his vice president, 'Don't reertify this election.' He has no concoction about doing whatever he can uh to get the results he wants. Definitely. So, he's got I mean, he does not want free and fair elections. Uh and it's our responsibility, all of us uh to fight for this is this is this is part of the uh of the stress test that we're all under. And I think that's why it was enlivening to me to add a positive hopeful note last night at your event because there were so many people who came who were excited to fight for democracy. And that's here in Texas, granted in a blue city, but I like to say there are no blue and red states really. There are purple states and blue 20:05 and red communities in Hanford everywhere. And uh and last night, this wonderful uh progressive forum right in Houston. Uh Randall Randall Borton has been doing this for 20 years. Uh and it's just a a great uh service to the community, but it's also wonderful to see all those people coming together uh in Houston, Texas and and and committing to fight for democracy. And I think just for this is watch this transition. Trump is broadly unpopular. I mean, if you look at the polling, he's going underwater on almost every issue. And certainly in DC, the occupation is unpopular with the locals. I mean, you saw JD Vance out with Pete Heads and Steven Miller. Oh, I love that. What a trio. First of all, they love that. I Can we just stop by this? Yeah. Because they're booed. Yep. In in Union Station. And what's their reaction? Their 21:03 reaction is this kind of adolescent vindictiveness directly from Donald Trump. He says, 'Okay, all of you who are who are booing us and jeering, you we're going to we're going to even bring more National Guard in.' Yeah. Uh and uh you're just uh you're just aging hippies. Well, I specifically Steven Miller, hold on. Now, this is important. So, we are going to ignore these stupid white hippies that all need to go home and take a nap because they're all over 90 years old. Now, I I take that, okay? I'm I'm I'm not an over 90, but I am getting up there and I you know, I had a hip phase. Sure. Sure. Um but um you know, I have rights. Yeah. You know, and it's not just people like you out there. It's let let me just I have a Steven Miller uh and JD Vance and Pete Hexf. Let me just tell you something. You guys, you work for me. You work for me. I am your boss. I am a 22:01 member of the United States public and you you can't say that just you know aging white hippies or you can't say anything you want. Well, you can say it, but I'm going to jeer you every chance I get. Okay. Well, I mean, excellent point first of all, but I think that that really does speak to the disdain that they have for the American people at large. I mean, even to some extent their own base, you know, if a member of their own base says, you know, actually maybe you guys are taking something too far, they immediately go to attack mode. Like, no, you're not part of it anymore. Oh, that's part of the Trump. I mean, they're all taking their lesson from Trump. And, you know, when Trump is when he gets a reaction, he gets, you know, he says, 'Fabulous. He loves a reaction.' And he goes and he gets deeper entrenched uh and he digs in. Uh and that is one technique. If you want to divide the country, if you don't care about democracy, if you actually would 23:00 like to establish a neofascist dictatorship, sure, that's one way of doing it. Uh but it is it does a grave disservice. Uh and Michael, as I've been saying, and I I think it's very important. This stress test that we're all going through is a learning experience. people who did not understand what the law meant or what democracy meant or what uh the constitution really does provide or what equal justice meant or people are learning the hard way there people are saying strangers come up to me on the sidewalk and say I I'm I never understood I was taking everything for granted and now people are taking it for granted I mean I when I was studying in college, a core part of my education was learning what is justice. I mean, that was a very central question. And when I look at National Guardsmen in the streets, for no reason. For no reason. For no reason, that is not justice to me. When I see white collar criminals 24:03 getting pardoned and staffing this administration, that's not justice. Well, here's I mean, this is the the irony. Uh Trump occupies Washington DC on the pretext that crime is going up. actually it's going down. The rate of crime is 32 cents to what it was uh you know two years a height. Uh but white collar crime in terms of Trump's pardoning of white collar criminals uh uh basically letting CEOs off the hook. They can do anything they want. Uh allowing them to shaft average working people. Uh well white collar crime is what we really need to be worried about. And yet this so-called law and order president is letting uh the wealthy corporate elites do exactly what they want. Yeah. It's impunity for everybody at the top and harassment by law enforcement 25:00 for everybody that he doesn't like. Well, and this is a major theme and I hope Democrats understand how important this theme is. Uh because you've got to right now a lot of corporate Democrats and Wall Street Democrats I wish and they were oxing borons there should not be such as a corporate Democrat or Wall Street Democrat uh but they are now you know they look at uh mom Donnie in New York and they look at how popular even Bernie Sanders is. Yeah. Uh and they they just get very nervous. They say oh no this is not the Democratic party we need. Yeah. Well, it is precisely the Democratic party we need. I I want to talk also about the economy. Oh, yes. No, let's get to that, please. Are there seeds of hope in that or is it all bad? Let's I just want to check now. Now, that's a very good question. Well, the uh Sean Powell, okay, the Fed chair gave a speech yesterday, Jackson. He does this every year. It's a major economic event because people would like to know how he's thinking. He is the chairman of the Fed. He is in charge of interest rates. Um and uh he's 26:07 under a huge amount of pressure from Trump to reduce interest rates. Now remember uh Trump not only doesn't care about institutions, doesn't care about democracy, he doesn't really understand the economy. Trump thinks Hold on. Sorry. He doesn't Donald Trump doesn't understand the economy. Are you sure about that? He seems like he's very very smart. That's why that's what the gold leaf in the White House tells me he's very rich too. Trump is uh when it comes to the economy uh he was not a successful businessman by the way. Oh right. I forgot about that. You know he took uh he got about 200 million from his father and if he had put it into an index fund when he got it when he was a young man uh he would be richer today than he actually is. Yeah. Now most of his wealth has come from various schemes schemes. uh and he has shafted a very very large number of people. 27:04 Yeah. Uh but the point is that right now he believes that he can make the economy work for him uh by browbeating the Fed. And to be clear that's just him, right? Yeah. Personally, not his administration even really just him. Bill, well everything is Donald Trump. That's that's the that's the you can call it a green sheet of good news because it's just one person but it's a tyrant. Yeah. It's it's somebody who is taking the wheels of power and the economy and saying I can decide independently what every country has to pay in terms of their export actually it's every American has to pay in terms of a kind of import tax from every country in the world. I can Donald Trump says arbitrarily based upon you know what I had for breakfast and what that country has given me and how much respect they've given me I can decide exactly what that 28:04 import factor is going to be and then he also says well I'm going to fire the head of Intel because the federal government has provided Intel a major semiconductor maker with a lot of grants uh and I want to invert that those grants into shares of stock for the federal government. Oh, and by the way, I also decided I want to provide give export licenses to two of our largest semiconductor manufacturers. They can they can sell in China if they give the United States a certain uh percentage of their profits. And I, Donald Trump, have decided that I am in charge of what you know about the trillion and a half dollars that has been pledged by all of these countries around the world that I've dren to give us some money. I I can decide what we do. Oh, and also I want a ballroom that's twothirds the size of the White House, attached to the White House, full of 29:01 Louis the 14th decoration. Did you hear this week they they're shutting down tours of the White House to the public because of the renovation? I mean, this man is giving himself a palace that the peasants can't enter and a ballroom that no one he doesn't like can never go into. And remember, the White House is the people's house. That's the way we used to refer to it before you were born. My I think still after I remember I got to tour the White House when I visited DC as an eighth grader and I thought this is amazing that I as a as a citizen of this country can go into this building where the most powerful person I mean at the time and I guess still on earth is making these decisions. It's amazing. Well, he's making all these decisions. Um, and he's also at the same time beating uh the chairman of the Federal Reserve that has to be independent. Now, the reason the Fed has to be independent is so that its decisions about li raising or lowering lowering interest rates are credible. Yeah. people, you 30:01 know, investors and businesses and small businesses and people and I mean even players around the world will understand that the Fed is raising interest rates because the Fed is concerned about inflation or lowering interest rates because the Fed is worried about recession. Yeah. Uh and it is not doing it on a political basis because there is no politics in the Fed. At least that's what the norm has been. But now, oh, there's that word again. But now we we have Donald Trump basically breaking the norms, but in doing so, he's making it harder for the United States to maintain that credibility as regard to the Fed and interest rates. Just like with the Bureau of Labor, Labor Systems, Peter, he attacks the BLS, which is incredibly important in terms of its credibility and independence. uh he fires the head of the Fed, puts in a political hack. Uh and what are we supposed to make of it? How can the Fed and the BLS maintain 31:04 their credibility with the public uh and with all of the economic actors around the world if everybody thinks that they're political? Sort of a rhetorical question there, isn't it? Well, it's I mean, it it's bad for the American economy. Yeah. Uh, in fact, all of this, all of the things that Donald Trump is doing are making Jerome Powell's job harder. Not because he's putting pressure on Pow. Yes, he's doing that. But also because we are facing now stagflation which means that the problem of of prices increasing that is inflation uh because of the inflationary effects of the tariffs the import factors at the same time that we're facing a problem of potential recession uh because of the the fact that fewer and fewer jobs are created uh and you know Donald Trump 32:02 creates headlines by firing the head of the Bureau of Labor Statistics. But what's also missing from that calculation is that the BLS has discovered by just getting more and more evidence that job growth has slowed dramatically. Yeah. I mean, we are in danger of falling into recession. Inflation and recession simultaneously. What can the Fed do? I mean, this is a huge problem. Okay. So, I want to bring us down down from the high the high heights of the Fed to what people can do. This is something we get a lot in the conference and I think this folds in a little bit with seeds of hope too, right? Okay. Well, it's it's really all boils down ultimately to what individuals can do. And uh you know, ironically, some of what we're talking about are seeds of hope because uh I I hate to wish a recession or inflation on anybody. Uh but after all, Donald Trump was elected by a lot of people because they wanted prices to go down. Well, prices are not 33:05 going down. Prices are going up. uh he was elected by a lot of people because they wanted to make sure that they would have a job. Yeah. Well, a lot of people are losing jobs. Uh so the and again I say this with a heavy heart. The seed of hope is that uh people are going to wake up who voted for him uh and be as outraged as they should be uh and uh basically get rid of the Republicans in Congress uh and uh and they're going to have some really interesting opportunities to pick candidates who maybe aren't the centrist corporates that you referred to earlier next year as well. If you'll if you're interested in hearing a few names, a few names of uh so in my home state of Ohio, I'm very excited that former Senator Shared Brown, who is a very dedicated populist pro-UN guy who was around for many years, he's running again. I think he's 34:01 fabulous. He's I He's a he's a friend. He's a absolutely fighting Democrat in all of the progressive conditions. And um I hope your state does what it should and supports you. Come on, Buckeyes. Let's do it. Uh and then there's a couple other newcomers and maybe some names you've heard before. So uh in in Maine, you've got someone named Graham Platner who's running against Susan Collins who's a veteran and an oyster. And Susan Collins, you know, is not well she's not as bad as some of that's the Republican senators. Um but she does not deserve to stay there. I mean, and well, I want to I want to push back on that statement a little bit because I think that in this time of rising authoritarianism, isn't being a soft, squishy moderate that gives up on the key votes when it actually matters just as bad in some ways? I mean, it's hard to conflate, but I I think people are I'm frustrated. You're seeing it now. I'm frustrated that someone like Susan Collins isn't standing up to Donald Trump. I mean, what principles does she have? 35:02 Well, that's exactly the point. Yeah. I mean, you don't have Republicans who are standing. They're all intimidated. They're all uh fear fe theoring that either they're going to be primar by somebody who is more Trumpian more extreme rightwing than they are or some of them confide to me that they're worried about just mobs they kind of vigilante the the Trump troops uh and they they one senator uh said to me uh Actually, starting in 2016, I talked to him and I he was a Republican senator. I said, 'How can you explain Republicans going along with this tyrant?' And he said, 'All it takes is one clamp.' Yeah. You're and you're dead. I'm sorry. I mean, there are a number of Republican representatives and senators who are 36:01 actually worried for their families and their lives. I hate to even bring himself, but that's that is yeah what we're dealing with and I'm certainly sympathetic to that. I think that it's the rise of political violence in the last couple of years. I mean, even we didn't even talk about this I think last week when it happened, but you had some crackpot presumably shooting at the CDC, you know, unloading, you know, some kind of automatic machine gun and the pres, as far as I can tell, President Trump hasn't even mentioned it. Well, he doesn't talk about anything that uh smacks of violence in a in a way that suggests that we have to control guns or that the country is, you know, under a siege. Yeah. With regard to violent people with guns. I mean, look, he pardons the 16,500 people who were in jail because of uh the attack on the capital on January 6, 2021. Let's let's look at the whole picture. 37:04 Yes. And it's a terrible picture, Michael. And you are almost exactly 15 years younger than I am. That's what they say. Well, I've seen a lot in my almost 80 years. Uh, but I've never seen anything like this. Yeah. And you know, Richard Nixon was bad enough. Uh, I thought that he was the normreaker of all normers, but this is something beyond that. And, uh, we as a nation, please, we're we're going to we're going to rise to it. We are rising to it. I mean the candidates you're talking about so many of them young people. Yes. You know they're doing very well because because America just doesn't want to live in a neopashion. Oh there's a huge I mean an itch for fighters and progressive fighters at that. Um and just to round out you've got so shared you've got Dan Osborne who 38:02 ran as an independent in Nebraska last cycle and is doing it again. You've got Abdul Al by the way. He's a really I mean he ran as an independent. He's an independent. He's not being supported by the Democratic um Senate committee. Uh but he's uh really a good guy and it's very important that he wait and you know in the tradition of having not career politicians or white collar professionals running you know just a blue collar guy too. I think that it's important for their people of a range of occupations to be running to represent the people in the people's anyways. Uh and then the last one that our team was really excited to mention was I think uh Nathan Sage in Iowa. So for all the Ians out there, somebody to keep a look keep a lookout for. Uh we also got a lot of comments last week um about I mean obviously we always get comments on what you can do, but we put out a video on Tuesday that I think answered some of these questions and there were five things that you'd listed. If you don't mind, we could read them off to the audience now too. Yeah. Briefly. Number one. Okay. Number one, you can call your representatives in Congress uh using we like5calls.org, 39:07 which is a website that provides scripts on specific issues. Obviously, you know, speak your own truth, whatever you want to say about the issue. These are just guidelines. And by the way, on that issue, let me just say, uh, a lot of people say, well, why should I call my representative? Why should I call my senator? Nobody's going to pay any attention to me. They do pay attention uh to your calls. What happens in every office, they have people who monitor the number of calls that are coming in for and against various issues and for and against Trump uh and even in Republican offices uh and they pay attention uh because this is an important weather vein with regard to where politics are heading. Uh so do it. call. Yes. Every day. And number two, attend town halls or rather keep attending town halls because that's one of the few times, I mean, other than when they're hearing these phone calls that Republican representatives in 40:05 particular are getting direct contact with people who disagree with and some of them are getting they're getting lamb, booed, yelled. I mean, obviously, be peaceful, be polite with within reason. But I think it's important for them to know that people are upset and people want a change. Right. Right. Absolutely. Okay. Number three, uh there's all kinds of groups uh that are organizing protests and you know peaceful demonstrations on the regular, including some that are coming up on Labor Day. Um Indivisible is one, the ACLU, they've got great resources about your rights during protests. 5051 is another one. They usually partner with Indivisible. I mean, these are the people that put together the no kings protests and stuff like that. And a lot of people here again, many people say to me, well, why should I protest? Um, showing that you care, showing yourself that and others uh that you are committed uh just in terms of putting 41:01 out your time uh is has a multiplier effect. It has a ripple effect. Uh and so never underestimate the value of just getting on getting out on the street and protesting. And I'll say I was I was temporarily stranded in the lovely town of Plerville last weekend on my way up to Lake to Lake Taho. I love Plaza. It's a very cute little town. My huge thanks to the Buttercup Pantry for letting me park my stranded car overnight. But you your car broke down. My car broke down in Plasterville. I'm sorry. But it worked out wonderfully and I was delighted to I was totally shocked that there was a a no kings themed protest that happened the next morning. There were 150 people in a small rural town and you know out in the booties because they heard that you were stranded there. They heard I was stranded and they wanted to get together to show you exactly how you know angry they were. But in all seriousness I think it's it's been really exciting to see this cropping up both in the big cities and in the small towns everywhere. So two more things. Uh number four, you can boycott corporations and organizations that are caving to this administration. 42:05 Um you mean like Tesla? like well like Elon sorry hello don't apologize to to Elon uh but also there there are others Home Depot amen and I think Target was feeling the pressure because I want to say their CEO just stepped out after they said that they were not going to have DI measures anymore. Yeah. Diversity, equity, and inclusion. I mean Trump has made into a bad set of words. Yeah. I am sorry. I believe in diversity. I believe in equity and I believe in inclusion and we all ought to stand up and say these are good things and um yeah, we're not we're going to boycott a a company that goes out of its way to get rid of it. Yeah. And number five, um and this is perhaps I don't want to say it's one of the easier things, but it's one of the more tangible things you can do. Uh protect the most vulnerable in your community where you can and where you're able. And um you know what I've been 43:02 pushing Michael is for the creation of sanctuary communities. That is uh you know even if Trump puts pressure on a state governor or a mayor not to uh you know not to have a sanctuary state or city uh there is nothing stopping individuals from coming up with an early warning system to alert everybody in our community where ICE is, what ICE is doing. uh taking uh videos of what ICE is doing if they're arresting people on the street. Uh in other words, being a community activist in favor of protecting the vulnerable members of your community. But and as always, please be safe when you're doing these things. Uh just given I mean, frankly, the videos that we're seeing coming out of how these law enforcement folks are behaving, just be careful. Um what a list. And I hope well there many many other things you really can do. I I you know my mind keeps going back to now I wasn't alive 44:04 then but in the late 1930s in Germany. You weren't alive in the 1930. Sorry. I thought you were a special assistant to Abraham Lincoln. Just that was not the 1930s. I know. Before before I was uh No, but but I'm a historian and my parents generation obviously lived through this. Yeah. Uh, and so I heard a great deal about the Nazis in the 1930s, about Hitler, uh, about other fascist regimes and good people uh, were silent. Good people uh, looked and wondered. I mean, they thought, you know, how can this be going on? Berlin was one of the most advanced intellectual and cultural places uh, in the world. Uh and yet Hitler came to power and the Nazis took over it uh without without enough without people putting up the kind of the kind of opposition that they would if they understood what it would lead 45:02 to. Yeah. And we are on exactly sadly not exactly but we are on the same path uh as uh as Nazi Germany was then. Uh, and make no mistake about it, all of us have a responsibility to stop what is going on legally and nonviolently. Yes. And I actually have a sixth item to add to the list. Yeah. Which ties into something that you did last year which aired recently and that's I think finding community and finding joy in that community. Totally. Was you made a special appearance on your son Sam Richer's uh variety show game changer. How was that? Was it fun? Well, it was great fun. Yeah. Oh, yeah. It was great fun. I mean, Sam uh is doing all this wonderful stuff. I It seems like every day somebody comes up to me and says, 'Are you really Sam Rich's father?' Last night at your event here in Houston, there were comment if you're watching this, there were people who 46:01 when Sam Rich was mentioned just started applauding spontaneously. It was it was amazing. It's uh it's great, but uh it was fun to be on Sam's show. Yes. And we won't give you any spoilers as to the context. Just know that Robert makes a special appearance. Are we going to show that? Uh, we can show a clip. Allie, this is uh not really to get your vote. It's just a true story. One time a woman just cornered me at a house party telling me how much of a difference you made in her life. As a teacher. Yeah. Yeah. Clearly uh going for the heartstrings. Dad, does that story mean anything to you? No. Tough fair. Um, but but you should go check out the full episode because it's very funny. How can people find the full episode? You can go to Dropout TV and uh I won't tell you you have to get a subscription, but I'm sure Sam wouldn't mind. Um, speaking of crash promotions, uh, we have the our movie. Yes. Uh, last class is coming to Houston, Texas. I mean, it's coming. It's all over the place. In fact, I think it may even already be 47:04 sold out, but it's at the River Oaks Theater, which is very close to here. Um, and that was September 24th. But we're doing, as I'm I'm going to put on my Heather hat now, something called theatrical on demand. So, if people want more showings in Houston, you can go up to the lastclassfilm.com website and you can use our tool called gather to try and bring uh more showings to your community wherever you are. And you don't have to be in Houston. And you don't have to be in Houston. You can be anywhere. I mean, I'm I'm going to be in u in I'm going to be in Cambridge, Massachusetts, which is where Sam was born. Right. uh where Sam was born. Uh I'll be there on the uh 2nd and 3rd of September. On the 2nd doing a book event uh for uh my book. Speaking of Oh yes. Let me just say uh this is a wonderful uh this says I got taller leading coming up short. This is courtesy of our hosts here from the progressive forum. So thank you very much. It's a I'll put it on too. Why not? Thank you Randall. It's a very cozy hat. I'm I'm expecting 48:04 Trump when How long do you think it'll take before Trump wears this hat? Oh, I I'm not in theulating business. You'll have to make a prediction. It's It's not going to happen immediately. Uh but um yes, this so this uh on September 2nd, I'm going to be at the Harvard bookstore event. Um and uh you can find out much more about that by just going to the internets and the address. It's online childwise. Uh and then on the 3rd, uh at the Brattle Theater in Cambridge, uh we're going to be showing The last class. Last class. Very excit. And you're going to be there for that? And I will be there for that. All right. Well, you heard it here, folks. Make sure you make it to the Brattle Theater. If it's not already sold out, then you'll just have to get another showing on Gather and then you can come back. Well, that's right. I mean, the beauty of this is that, you know, if things are sold out, you just buy a book. buy more book and and you you know get more 49:00 people together and have a showing of the movie. Um but it is shameful promotion and I apologize. makes me a little bit embarrassed. But um just as I'm embarrassed to uh crow about the fact that um the book coming up short uh is number one on the New York Times bestseller list tomorrow's New York Times bookseller list. Uh well congratulations again and thank you I think to everyone out there who has both purchased and read the book. There will be a quiz on the next week's clutch. That's Well, it doesn't No, it's not next week. It's I'm gonna It's going to be a pop quiz. I'm not going to tell you exactly when it's going to be because otherwise, you know, if you you'll study, I want you to read the book. Fair enough. And um uh it's um it is thrilling because all of these efforts and Michael, you're a major trooper and a major source of both work and inspiration. Paul is very kind of you to say. Well, I'm not 50:06 being polite. I'm being truthful. And Heather, I mean, it's a wonderful team. Uh, and uh, but all of these efforts and our videos are efforts to educate, to make sure people understand what's happening and why it's happening. Uh, and uh, same with Substack. I mean, why do it? We we're doing it. I am doing it and we're all doing it. I'm doing Substack because it is so critically important that people get the facts and get the analysis and get the truth uh at a time when uh the person in the Oval Office is doing everything he can uh to hide the truth. Yeah. And any any closing words of wisdom? I do want to I do want to uh provide some closing words just or just width. No, I'm I just want to say uh uh I want to thank you all of 51:01 you. I mean, here we are in Houston, Texas. Um who knows where we're going to be in the future. Maybe we'll be in your town. Uh but uh we're all in this together. You are not alone. I want you to understand that not only are you not alone, but a majority of people in the United States and certainly around the world, but especially in the United States view like you do what is happening. Don't want neofascism, don't want authoritarianism, want to preserve our democratic institutions. Uh and that is critically important because what they want to do, what Trump and the neoascists around him want to do more than anything is demoralize us to the extent that we grow hopeless. And when we are hopeless, they win because then we won't take any action. They get it all. So here's to you. Here's to hope. We'll see you next Saturday. Cheers, Bob. Thank you, Mike. And thank you again, Houston. Thank you, Houston. Yes. This and I love this place. Yeah. Yeah. Thank you for finding

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