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COMMENTARY THE COFFEE KLATCH ... JULY 26TH, 2025 with Robert Reich and Heather Lofthouse Will Ghislaine Pardon Trump? --> PLAY YOUTUBE VIDEO Original article: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IFjw33QWbdY
Will Ghislaine Pardon Trump? \| The Coffee Klatch with Robert Reich Robert Reich 1.28M subscribers ... 205,367 views ... 10K likes Premiered Jul 26, 2025 The Coffee Klatch with Robert Reich ICE’s rampage. The carnage in Gaza. Judges and the free press under attack. A pardon for Ghislaine Maxwell? We'll break down yet another horrific week — but share some seeds of hope. How this content was made Auto-dubbed Audio tracks for some languages were automatically generated. Learn more Talking about The Last Class Elliot Kersner and Heather Lofthouse with Robert Reich Peter Burgess COMMENTARY Peter Burgess Transcript 0:02 And it is the Saturday coffee clutch with Heather Loft House. Hello. And yours truly, Robert Rich. Uh Heather, how are you? I'm going to ask that because this is we've just passed the sixmonth mark in terms of uh this administration, this regime, Trump regime. And uh I just I'm I'm curious how are you how are you doing? Seriously. Oh, it's hellish. It is hellish. It's not great. So when people come up to you on the street Oh, I lie. I lie. They say, 'How are you, Heather?' I just say, 'If things are good, I'm sticking with it.' Which is half true. But right today, today it's rougher today. It's just depends on the day in the morning and the minute and the hour. Together, so it's going to be fine, right? This morning, somebody asked me how I'm doing. No, it was somebody who I knew. Okay. And I said, 'Shitty.' Wow. And it just felt right. I know. You know, I know. That's why I just said to you it's not great. But I do feel I mean we have let's go through it. I mean there's 1:03 some stuff to cover from the week. Let's talk. What are we going to talk about? What are we going to talk about? So I we have to talk about the Jeffrey Epstein situation. Didn't we talk about that last week? Yeah. But it is still at the top of everyone's feeds and we need to discuss why that is the case. What's actually happening? What's Can you be psychic and tell us what's going to happen in the future? Well, I know what's going to happen in the future. I've been through this already. By the way, a lot of people liked us being insults. I mean, I liked us being ins. Well, well, I think we should we should try what? Let me just ask you guys. Um, let us know if you would like us to be back either at Sals or any other coffee shop because uh Oh, God. What What are we going to travel? We could travel the world. Why not? I mean, is it is there a geographic limit? There's no limit. Okay. I mean, we can let us know where you are and wherever. Um, but um, yeah, Epstein. Okay. So, talk about taking all the oxygen. I mean, it's just been wild. But 2:05 why? I mean, the latest with Trump. We have How do you How do you say her name? I'm Gazelle. Is it No. Gillen. Gil. Gillan. Gillen. Gillen. I think. I mean, we say it one way in France and one way in England. Look at I mean this this whole thing uh has a life of its own obviously and I think the reason a lot of people I know uh are very excited about it is because this is this is a in his armor. I mean Trump no matter how much he tries to deflect attention no matter what he does people are coming back and in fact it looks like a cover up. Uh it looks it it's it's re it feels like Nixon covering up a cover up. Uh, and once you start covering up a cover up, you are really you can't get out. It's it's just it's it's quicksand. I think that's why a lot of people love what's going on right now, at least uh Democrats and liberals and progressives. And on the 3:02 other side, you've got a lot of people who just don't believe Trump because uh they don't believe the Justice Department um can be trusted because this is and are they right? Well, of course they're right. This is the irony. Uh, I mean, Trump has extended his power beyond any president before and so that he's co-opted the Justice Department. He's co-opted the the Republicans on the Hill. He's co-opted uh everything around him. So there's no independent source of credible evidence that he did not engage in, you know, sex with underage women and and all of the other things that he's been that that the Epstein case involved itself in. And you saw him yesterday say when they said, 'Would you consider pardoning Gileain Maxwell?' And he said, 'I mean, I haven't thought about it. I mean, I could I could I have the power to do that.' Exactly. So that's that's the other thing. I mean, he's been he's sort of 4:04 been hoisted on his own petard. Remember that expression? I do. So, I think hoisted on his own petard, right? So, what it means, can we just break it down? So, I think it means So, it's a bomb. A petard is a French word for a little I think. And if you're hoisted on your own bomb, right, you're putting it, you blow, you're blowing it. What kind of bomb? Self exploding. So, a petard is a is French for a bomb. Yeah. A tiny little bomb. You're you're putting it up and then it explodes in your face. I thought it was a fart. That's the original. So I do think in French the word for petard comes from the Latin word for fart. I I'd rather it be fart because I I can imagine uh Donald Trump being hoisted on his own fart. I like that one. That's good. Is this going to be your cartoon contest for the week on Substack? But but really this is becau because the more power he has and the more he exerts it over the justice department over you know over pardons over Mike Johnson who basically said to 5:05 the house please get out of town because I don't want this investigation. I don't want any subpoenas. Everybody sees more and more of a cover up. Um, so he has no Trump has no place to get a credible third party who is not somehow under his domain. But it is it's so interesting because on the one hand I feel like are we really focusing on this man who's a horrible person who was guilty of his crimes and then died. How is this has been around for all this primary source material? All this stuff has been out there since before he was elected in 2016. Why is it coming to the four now? Where has the media been? I mean, well, it's a very good question. And the fact that it was the Wall Street Journal that broke the last stories that revived the last part of this is particularly interesting because Rupert Murdoch obviously was in strong alliance with 6:03 Trump. So the real break and the real interesting fisher here may not be so much in the MAGA world as such. It may be between Murdoch and Trump just like the the gap between Elon Musk and Trump. In fact, remember Musk was the first one who said when Trump and Musk were having difficulties uh when Musk was during the breakup Musk said uh the files the Epstein files you won't believe what's there I mean he's going to be implicated this is a situation so the answer to your question why now is I think Murdoch and Musk yeah I mean on the one hand of course we'll take it but on the other hand there have so many horrific things. I mean, he was convicted of assaulting whatever the terminology was that the, you know, court used, Eugene Carol. Well, it was it was a civil lawsuit and 7:02 the judge in that civil lawsuit said, uh, in response to some misinformation out there, he said, 'Don't, you know, this was rape, right? This was rape. This was a Donald Trump raped this right woman.' So, we have we have all these examples of him, his egregious inappropriate illegal and the Hollywood and the Hollywood, you know, Access Hollywood tape. I mean, there's no question that he is a a philanderer and and a harasser and he and he does, you know, whatever he wants sexually and he has, but this adds the issue of ch children and uh this is a serious issue. I I don't want to minimize the seriousness. This is a huge and serious issue. But once he is in this realm possibly, then I think even the magaz say, 'No, no, we're not going to go along with this.' And it's the cover up of the cover up and it's the supreme 8:02 QAnon conspiracy theory of pedophilia and it's all wrapped up in all of that, right? Yeah. And again, hoisted on his own fart. Yeah. I mean, it's there's a divine justice here. The question is whether it the question is whether it continues. Remember, we're now entering the summer. We, you know, Congress is home. It's August. It's recess. Uh people are off, you know, fishing and doing what people do in the summer, right? A lot of fishing. But is is there I think in Trump's mind, if it's not headlines every day, uh the public forgets it. But actually, this particular issue doesn't die. And uh I I just have felt it very interesting that it no matter how Trump tries to divert attention, it doesn't die. It's growing. It is. And so they, you know, there's there the headlines about Epste and then he tries to one up with something about 9:04 Obama's character and you know role in election and it looks like a patent deflection. I mean that's what a lot of people say. Wait a minute. Wait a minute. Obama, you're throwing in here, you're doing what? Why are you so desperate to deflect? Why are you so desperate? This is even MAGA people are saying that. But don't you think I mean, if he controls everything, then isn't Pam Bondi just going to put it in a shredder? I mean, what is it? Is he going to pardon Gillen? Well, he probably will, but even that and then she'll, you know, but even if even if um Gilen, is that how you pronounce it? Maxwell. uh if she says as you know she's subpoenaed and she says no uh Donald Trump never appeared I don't have any recollection of him being anywhere near Jeffrey Epstein in one of Jeffrey Ebstein's in fact I can confirm he was never there I mean she could go far yes but of course people are going to doubt her testimony because Trump has 10:00 used his pardon authority to do so many things that are in his own personal interest right this is another aspect of him being hoisted on his own fart Oh god. Um, so but then what else exists? So we have the letter, right, that was in his the Jeffrey Epstein's birthday book. That's the Wall Street Journal and his signing. Yeah. You know, Donald Trump, right? You know, in kind of pubic hair uh cur cur cur curs I mean, you know, it's almost embarrassing to have to go through this because it is so salacious and so disgusting. And we had other examples that we could have made a decision based on. But I appreciate your point about the cover up of the cover up and it being the supreme example of hypocrisy from the man who claimed he hates hypocrites. Yes. and and and you know there are going to be elections before the midterms which are you know going to tell us a lot in Virginia for example 11:02 whether uh this has any legs whether it continues to fester we have to keep watching those and yes remember because we've only had 6 months of Trump and we still have a while 15 months 14 months until the midterm elections so a lot could happen we don't know but I have a very clear memory because I'm much older than you of Nixon and Nixon saying, you know, obviously I had nothing to do with it. I have nothing to do with Watergate. Nothing. And people beginning to ask, what did he know and when did he know it? And John Dean, remember John Dean's famous dictim about there's a cancer on the White House. Well, it may be similar. I feel like Donald Trump knew it years ago. I think he did. I mean, right. He did know it and his past is maybe finally catching up with him. But no, I was just going to say, Heather, one thing that worries me about all of this, again, the seriousness, obviously 12:03 it's serious, but I worry about other things getting pushed off of the public conversation. That's what I was going to say because you wrote this in your Substack and you said, 'What are we missing because we're focused on this one? because it's important and we need to talk about those stories, but two because also Trump has a plan, right, where we don't focus on other things because we're lost in the fog of whatever he's doing that minute. And um so what are we missing out? We're missing a lot. You know, look at the starvation that's going on in Israel. You know, children, Palestinian children uh in Gaza are are are actually starving now because of what is Israel is doing. Netanyahu. Uh, and I think that the, you know, Trump is is an enabler of Netanyahu much much more uh, directly than Biden ever was. Uh, we're sending a lot of military equipment. We are supporting Netanyahu and whatever 13:02 Netanyahu wants to do. But Netanyahu is making it impossible for uh, a lot of humanitarian food and medical supplies to get through. That's it. to the Palestinians and USAD by the way and USAD obviously. So I mean we have the suffering uh visible suffering. Did you see in the New York Times there was they did a video and it had this boy I can't I keep thinking about his little face and he had his bowl and he was crying out and you could see him between kind of I don't know if it was a fence or what but the videos are so devast I mean it's all devastating but when you see it I don't know how it cannot be discussed more and well again this this crowding out phenomenon I remember it was in the Vietnam war during the Vietnam war uh the photos of these children who were fleeing ing uh bombs and napal uh and and little girls uh who were fleeing naked screaming uh and and it just it just got through finally. Uh people 14:02 began to internalize what was going on. Uh and I think that uh there may be the beginnings of people internalizing uh I mean actual starvation. We're not talking about malnutrition any longer. We're talking about starvation. and then murdering people who are trying to get food. Yeah. And Netanyahu is a war criminal. Let's be very very clear about this. Uh and would we be talking about this more were it not for the other things that are crowding it out like for example Jeffrey Epstein? Uh the other thing that I would say we should be or would be talking about uh has to do with the 57,000 people who are now in detention centers, concentration camps, some of them in foreign countries, some of them in torture camps, uh who were working and living in the United States. Uh 70% of them without any criminal record at all. 15:01 Being swept up by ICE, swept up by ICE. Uh many times ICE in plain clothes uh unidentified uh you know this is so contrary to America 57,000 that number sorry 57,000 I mean and that number keeps growing and they want it to grow. Yeah. Steven Miller says well our goal is 3,000 a day. I I mean families being broken up uh communities being, you know, just rendered uh dysfunctional uh because of what? Because of an emergency? Is this a national emergency? We should be talking about this? Why aren't we talking about this as well? But does it is this going to create cracks in the MAGA base, too? I mean, Joe Rogan has come out and said it's too much here. It's too much. I mean, if Joe Rogan says it's too much, is this another place where there can be a tiny seed of hope that something's breaking through? Well, certainly if polls are to be believed, I mean, public support for going after immigrants, even immigrants 16:06 who are here, undocumented immigrants, uh, public support has has not popular. I mean, it's I mean, no, the public to the extent that they know what's going on with regard to either um children and people in Palestine or Palestinians in Gaza uh or the the suffering of people who had been members of their communities uh in the United States. Now, Bob, that graph you showed Yeah. on your Substack that said, 'What is the number one story?' It's a data for progress graph. What is the number one story that you remember from this week? Number one was Epstein. Yes. And it it fell off very very rapidly. Uh number two, number three, number four. I mean almost no other stories had nearly the salience. Gaza was 14 or something and above that was don't know. And the third one was I don't I don't have one. None. 17:00 Right. I mean the way people are consuming news and what's breaking through you can see the polls that are being done and the research and Heather also this week I mean the the what we learned about the judges uh over a third of federal judges feel uh with some justification they've said it openly that the administration is defying their orders over a third of federal judges federal judges uh now did this get any attention? I mean barely. I saw it in your Substack. Well, thank you. So, a few of us Thank you for reading my substack. Um, but this is so this is the US means the US Constitution is not it means well it's it's it's the best and clearest evidence yet that the Trump administration, the Trump regime, I call it, uh, is flouting the Constitution and intentionally flouting the Constitution. And there are a lot of people uh, Trump and people around him who say we don't owe it. We don't have to follow the federal courts. So they're usurping the powers of Congress. They are usurping the powers of the federal courts. Uh 18:03 they are uh abusing whatever presidential powers they had. Uh and these things we ought to be focusing on in addition to Epstein. Epstein. Do we have to say it again? Um, one thing you said, you were talking about polls and you said, um, the immigration numbers, but what's been so hopeful or something, I mean, we talked about this on the clutch weekly since the six-month mark. I can't believe that for 6 months, we've been talking about it, but Donald Trump's polls, so what is it? 37 approval rating right now, which is close to January 6. Yes. Related polls. I mean, it's below Biden's approval. any any low that Biden had even after uh with the withdrawal from Afghanistan uh it is remarkably low and you know that it's getting to Trump because what has Trump done done this week he brags about how high his polls are. I mean, you can 19:03 actually plot how uh what is upsetting Trump. Yes. By the degree to which he is denying or deflecting or trying to Okay. So, maybe we need a deflection meter. Deflection meter. That's what I was going to say. How about right here? Do you Are you going to scribble in it or should we just have Michael deflection meter? We'll carry it around. If we go back to Psalms or any other, we'll bring our deflection. Oh, it'll be everywhere. I'll get it. I'll f Can we have it so it folds up so it's more efficient? I need a handle. We'll get a handle. Just thinking ahead. Yeah, we'll get a handle on everything. But so you saw that Trump is nearly -32 among Gen Z voters. What's wild to me about that, it's not surprising to me. 18 to 29 people are saying, 'I'm not liking what's going on.' That doesn't surprise me. What surprised me is his net positive approval was plus 10 as of November of last year in that same age group. So for the election, it was like he's great. And so that young person group even if I mean I wanted to see the polls 20:03 from data for progress and see of the people who are paying attention to Epstein. How many of those are those young people? Are young people paying attention to Gaza? They're probably not paying attention to the federal workers and the federal judges I mean and the but ICE detentions they're paying attention to but yes they're paying attention to ICE detention. they're paying attention to a lot of the uh and I deal with these young people all the time and I I even teach them or I did teach them and I'm teaching them a little bit uh tiny tiny bit uh but uh they are very upset by the moral implications uh they feel uh the uh the immorality of this administration not just Epstein but everything we've talked about in terms of putting people uh in detention people who who who have not had any due process. Uh you know, we don't even know who these people are. There's just accusations against them. They're members of their communities. Uh the the 21:01 issues we've talked about, young people are really upset about. Um and the thing about this cohort 18 to 29, this is and these years are the critical years in terms of uh young people deciding what their political orientation is going to be often for the rest of their lives and civic engagement. You know, how much are they going to put their foot on the gas? What are where are they how motivated are they? How how what is their sense of agency around? So getting to them is critical. Exactly. And this what this is what another thing that gives me hope and and you know because these young people are committed they're angry they don't want to go down uh the direction that the country is going down under Trump uh they are committed to changing it uh they know it's going to be a long hall many of them uh uh you know not all of them obviously but they are graduating and they are going into um into kinds of 22:01 work in which they are changing the country. They want to change the country. They want to dedicate their lives or at least a piece of their lives. Not maybe their entire work life and not maybe uh 40 hours a week, but they are intent on making a difference, making positive social change, right? Isn't that I mean, it's fabulous. It's so good. I wanted to go negative again though, but I'm not doing it. I wanted to say but the employment numbers are so low for people with college degrees. Well, that's true. And they Sorry, I brought us down again. But but and the the economy is going to be hard. And that's what I'm hearing from a lot of these young folks. And well, it's not just young people. It's it's it's all aspects of starting a family and getting into work and and coming up affording a rental unit. Yes. I mean, it's tough. Uh I think also if you want to look at the other side, the cup half full, um the the the 23:04 public, even public Trump supporters, and I'm talking about workingclass people, they are beginning to see that the Trump economic policies, uh the big ugly bill and taking away Medicaid and taking away food stamps and and giving a big tax cut to the rich, uh and the tariffs which are making everything more expensive. Inflation um the inflation numbers are going up. Uh I think a lot of people are saying, 'Wait a minute, he's not there for me. Uh he's there for the big corporations and the billionaires and himself and himself.' Um this reminds me, my friend said she read something the other day which was something like to all the people who are sitting there arguing about whether it's half full or half empty the glass, could you get up and just fill it? Could you just go? Could you go to the tap? I mean, we have an option. You don't have to stare at the glass. Fill it. Fill it. I love that. No, that's that's true. A lot of this comes back and you and I have have emphasized this personal responsibility. We are we are 24:04 the leaders we've been waiting for. We can't just wait uh passively for something to happen. So, we have to remain educated. We have to remain engaged. Elections are coming up. I mean, people keep saying, 'I want a specific to-do list. Give me the to-do list.' Well, the to-do list is has to come from all of us. Uh, and it it's not going to be the Democratic Party is not going to tell everybody what to do. I didn't think that that's where we were getting a to-do list. We aren't. I mean, I I I am disappointed with the Democrats, but I've been disappointed with the Democrats. I've seen you for 60 years. Uh, that's not where the leadership is going to talk about it. I know. Okay. So, one more thing that I want to talk about before we have a special guest, which I'm so excited for because we made a film called The Last Class, which so many of you are seeing and the director will be here with us, Elliot Kushner. But before we get to that, some of the other things that pop 25:03 through on my feed and you um pointed these out on Substack 2, are the silencing that's going on and these stories of silencing and we have a bunch of examples. So, can we start with what's happening at the Washington Post? Well, that's a tragedy. Uh I mean Jeff Bezos has taken over as we know the editorial function the editorial page of the Washington Post and uh this is before the election he said you can't say anything critical uh of of Donald Trump I not we cannot support we cannot endorse her uh and then since then he is is has really exerted a strangle hold a lot of people have left the the Washington Post very talented columnists uh and uh in fact this week uh somebody who I admire greatly Eduardo Porter he left and in his final column this week he said uh he's leaving because uh Bezos in what appears to be a 26:04 Trump to an attempt to avoid Trump's wrath. Uh Bezos is making it impossible to criticize Trump. Right. I mean we know this the cartoonist I just forgot her name. She was Ale. I mean, come on. Where she, you know, what some of them have let go, some of them have got golden parachutes basically. Uh, please let go. Uh, and then some of them have just resigned, right? But the point is they um the Washington Post used to be I remember I mean this during Watergate, the Washington Post was the center of uh of not only reporting but editorializing against Richard Nixon. Now it has been completely defanged. Um, and who were the journalists and all the president's men? Where were they supposed to be from? Uh, they were from the Washington Post. That's what I thought. Heather, how what when how young were you, Water? I know. I was just I was giving you a softball answer to that one. I was 27:00 letting you sound like you could teach me something, but I knew the answer, guys. Well, wait a minute. But it's it's not just the Washington Post. Look at what happened uh to Steven Coar. We haven't even had a coffee clutch since that happened. Well, this is I mean Co Bear U comes back from vacation and he says uh Paramount, which is the owner of CBS uh which puts on Colbear the most successful late night program there is in America. Um he says uh you know this is just a big bribe that they're giving Trump uh to to get to get him off their backs so that they can sell their stake in CBS to skydive or whatever it's called. Sky Dance. Sky Dance. You like Skydive would be a company called Skydive. Um and uh and he was very critical. He's funny obviously. uh he he hides his 28:01 criticism in this extraordinary satire. But days later, three days later, um CBS, that is Paramount, cancels Colbear and uh his manager supposedly heard before he did. Of course, of course, of course. I mean, it's Why is this surprising to anybody? This is an attempt to silence. It's it's exactly exactly like the Washington Post, but the internet has gone crazy on this one with all his clips and what he's saying and well, but you saw South Park. Yes. Came out and said is making fun. I mean, they've made fun of everyone. No, but but but essentially one week after uh all of this happened uh that is the cancellation. One week after that, that is two days ago, uh, from right now, uh, the the merger went through the the sale, I should say, 8 billion. Yeah. $8 billion. And so you have, you know, the billionaires, Sher Redstone sitting 29:02 there on top of Paramount, uh, just like Jeff Bezos, uh, you know, they on top of Paramount, I'm picturing dollar bills under her. Yes. And they don't, you know, Bezos and Sherstone, the billionaires, don't want to risk the wrath of Trump. Uh but you see it's the same story. I know it's exactly the same story. And then Colombia, can we talk about the education side of things? Well, Columbia this week, Colombia did another surrender to Trump, a form of surrender. I mean, it says uh we'll pay you $200 million to get off our backs to release the federal funds uh and agree to a number of stipulations. Yes. And this is what really is concerning because Trump doesn't want universities. You know, universities are the center of a lot of criticism of Trump and uh this is he he he wants the center of criticism. They're a critical thinking. Exactly. Exactly. They're critical thinking and and they come up with truth. I mean like uh Trump says they work hard at it. the climate 30:03 climate change is a hoax and the university researchers say look at here's the evidence climate change is happening data real data real analysis he doesn't want real he doesn't want facts and so he's clamping down on the universities he clamping down on Harvard trying to on Colombia Colombia is relenting but here's the thing that agreement that Colombia made with the Trump regime is not just a payment of $200 million but it is also allowing the regime came to review Trump's ad uh Colombia's admission policies and its promotion policies uh and its hiring policies in terms of professors once you open your door to that kind of government review Trump government review. Well, is that not going to be a stifling of criticism? I mean, if you're president of Colombia, if you have somebody coming up for tenure who has made uh her reputation on criticizing Trump or contra or or coming up with 31:05 evidence that that contradicts what Trump has said and he's furious about it, well, what are you going to do? Right. Chopping block. I I would think so. I mean, that's the big danger. What we're talking about here is is really the underlying silencing that Trump is doing across the board uh with regard to critics. Underlying but also kind of right in front of our faces. It is right in front of our faces. Exactly, Heather. Um and this is what this is desperatism number one. This is what a what a a dictator does. that you silence you silence critics. Okay. Well, so we had a few seeds of hope in here. One seed of hope is that we have I produced this film that you let us take video of you not knowing it would be a film, thinking it would be a video or a short film. And we have the 32:02 director here, Elliot Kersner. And so couple things on this one is it shows how powerful education is. Full stop. but also for a democracy and that's critically important but also it is a rallying cry for civic engagement and so let's watch the trailer and then we'll speak with Elliot. My name is Robert Rich. What we are going to be talking about is happening now. I've been a teacher for 42 years. I'm beginning my last semester. I've done a lot of other things. I was secretary of labor, but I've always come back to teaching and I can't imagine not doing it. So many people have come up to me and said, 'Are you still teaching or are you retired?' And I resist the urge to punch them in the nose. The wealth is held by the richest 400 Americans. Do you get the picture? Democracy is not a spectator sport. If enough people feel bullied, they begin to have power. 33:03 It's about the passage of time. This is our final class. You made it and at a deeper level, the arc of one's life. It's going to be a wild ride. Thank you for joining me. [Music] Elliot, welcome. Welcome, Elliot. Elliot, let me thank you. You did a fabulous job. That was not me in that film. I mean it was me but you well you as director you did you really did uh it was beautiful. Well I had a wonderful producer too and Heather. Yes. To both the producer to the producer and to the director and to the subject and to the sucker that let us sucker. That's right. Because you guys told me it was going to be just a video and then you know short video and then it became a feature film. Yeah. But we didn't. It's not You can't find the evidence that we were like, 'And now let's dupe him.' We just It would We didn't write that down, right? 34:03 No, there is. There is Wall Street Journal just did a piece about the two of you. We were like, 'That rice guy is going to think it's going to be a tiny video.' I I heard that. But will you tell us the origin story a little bit? I mean, I know it cuz I was there for part of it, but I wasn't inside your brain. So, tell us how did you Oh, well, decide to make this. There are many origin stories. I mean um one is and I I wrote about this um just my own Substack and it was because it was such a memorable thing to me was that I I first met Bob and you don't remember this. We've confirmed this before but no I have no memory. I met you close to about 30 years ago. I was a uh senior in college. I had had a summer internship at ABC News and the the producer at ABC News was in the Boston bureau and she had this little she gave me sort of freelance gigs for for jobs she didn't want to do, assignments she didn't want to do. And one of those was apparently meeting you on the Wednesday before Thanksgiving at Logan Airport to get a sound bite. Man, I was just coming back from Washington. You were coming back from Washington presumably for the holidays to to Boston 35:05 and uh and I had to meet you there. I don't know, you know, in the age before cell phones and Google maps. I don't know how I arranged this guide. I don't know. Somehow we were able to, you know, for the young people, they won't understand this, but somehow we were able to meet people and do things before before the internet um really took off. But I met you and uh I my job was to get a a sound bite, but I thought I was sort of sitting down for like the Frost Nixon interviews or something. And I I had my sports coat, my single sports coat that I owned and I was sweating and with nervousness and I had a these old yellow legal pads, remember those? And I was had all these somehow I'd done research on whatever the topic. It was some meaningless little, you know, news story in the scheme of things, but for me it was my big break. I was going to interview a sitting cabinet member and so I did that. Um, and then, you know, we we sort of Yeah. Do we have do we have that clip? We do. So, first of all, we have a little clip of it. I mean, you're not in it, but Bob's looking at you. What you don't see is what's on the other side is nervous little old bee. Right. 36:04 American Medical Services is one of hundreds of companies nationwide accused by the labor department of mishandling employee retirement contributions. For months, American Medical took the contributions, but never deposited them in its retirement plan. The company has since reimbursed the fund. The Labor Department is cracking down on this kind of abuse. We are going to return as much money as we can to employees. We're going to prosecute, sometimes criminally prosecute employers who violate the law. But that but that clip just goes a couple of seconds. You prepared as Oh, yes. I I was I had all sorts of follow-up questions and it was very clear. I mean, I was it was a master class in you giving a a sound bite and that I I even remember now that you spoke with a certain duration and then you paused and I knew now that like to give an editor a clean edit out in and then you gave a little longer answer and it was like it was just you knew what 37:01 you wanted to say and what you had to say and within 5 minutes after saying hello it was happy Thanksgiving and you were on your way and I was sort of but you must have done that what 40 times a day. I did that forever. But Elliot, how did you get from there to making this movie? So, I sort of, you know, followed your career like a lot of people and, you know, watched you on on TV and all those other things you've done over the years and I um I reconnected through Heather, maybe you can. I mean, I was working at the time with Dan Rather and we had started a Substack Substack newsletter called Steady and I heard that you were thinking of starting a Substack and yeah, I found Elliot. I was like, who else has done a Substack? And then I saw on LinkedIn that he was in San Francisco. And so yeah, we met up for breakfast to talk about that. And I just, you know, I mean, it was mesmerizing sort of sit and talk to you about all sorts of things, not just the Substack. And I guess I saw in those conversations a a version of you and the way that you spoke, not in sort of the formal sense that it was really intriguing and exciting. I thought, okay, how do I I 38:04 would love to make a a short film or some type of story that featured feature that. And then Heather told me that that a little secret at the time that not many people knew that you had decided to retire uh from teaching your big UC Berkeley course. And I thought, 'Aha, here's here's a some type of scaffolding that I could use to to tell a story.' And I was interested in questions of education and retirement and the arc of life and all of that kind of stuff. And so, yeah, I came to Heather and I said, 'Do you think, you know, Bob would be game for this?' And I said, 'No.' Well, yeah, he did say no. Definitely not. But it but this but the film is not about me per se. It's about education as you just said, retirement, the ark of life. I mean how did you take your subject right me and and make it into something that was not about me? Making into something that was much bigger. Well, I mean several things. One is I knew what I I started knowing what I 39:00 didn't want to do. you know, there's been two wonderful documentaries made about you and the subject of your teaching um already and in the classroom and students and sort of the big themes that have, you know, sort of dominated your your public presence and and messaging. I so I knew I didn't want to that that was done and had been done well. Um I also knew I didn't want to do a sort of traditional biographical documentary with a bunch of, you know, famous people saying how great you were. Yeah. I mean, I don't I mean, what I found captivating was you processing this chapter in your career. And I've always been interested in in sort of human stories and people going through life. And I sort of thought, okay, you're touching on some really big themes that are about you but are much bigger than you. And and I think the way you talked about them was so compelling that I felt if I could just record that and you you agreed to be interviewed and we could capture some of the classroom, we can maybe make a short little film that we could put on YouTube or something and people would find interesting. But what was there 40:03 or maybe you can't even know this yet, but what was there in your own life and background that made you sensitive to these themes of aging, of retiring, of uh what you leave behind, of transitions? Well, I think that, you know, I have my parents, you know, are of a similar age of you and are my father's still working. My mother retired. I sort of saw she was a teacher. Uh my father's a a research scientist and professor but also an academic. So I sort of saw that wrestling. You know I'd worked uh many years at CBS News. I worked with Dan Rather and so and followed him as he had left CBS News and see him process that and and had seen him have a whole new chapter of his life that I'd help played a role in. I saw a lot of the other people, you know, I'd come up at a time when a certain generation of news people were sort of exiting the scene and was really fascinating with how they navigated that. So, I've always been just interested in, you know, chapters of life. And I've also been in a career 41:00 in journalism that's been very chaotic and seen a lot of people processing, you know, careers going in ways that they didn't expect it or so. I I've just always been interested in those in processing life as it comes, but also people have a sense of mission about what they're doing in life and and that kind of bringing those together and in trying to do and just have a story about that and turning in a story that was really featuring someone who I thought you could be a really great guide through not only your emotions but reflecting bigger themes that would resonate with people because it hearing you talk resonated with me and I felt if it was resonating with me hopefully would resonate with viewers. Well, I have a question for both of you. Okay. And then I have questions. Okay. The the film The film has been extraordinarily successful. I mean, no. When you That's what I want to talk about. When you both When you both said you were making finally you confess you were making a film, a full- feature film, which you saw two weeks before it premiered, which I didn't see until it was just about ready. Um, my thought was, well, 42:01 that's nice, but you can't get it into the theaters. That was your thought. I think you might have expressed it out loud. We didn't really, you know, you were not really thinking about getting in the movie theaters. I mean, I haven't been in a movie theater for years. Nobody goes to movie theaters. Um, I think you've said those words and and you're not wrong. And yet, well, I mean, I am wrong in terms of this film is really breaking box office records in movie theaters around the country. It's so exciting, but that's cuz people are going to see it. Someone I talked to this week said it was an antidote to despair, which I think was a Joan Bayz quote of some sort at one point. But I do think that people are leaving hopeful. Now, it's not that it's not a poignant. I mean, I think a lot of people have shed tears as they watch it, but I think people think, 'Oh my gosh, look, look at all the student faces. I love those faces. The student faces in this film. The cinematography, the editing by Josh Melrod. I mean, it's so and it's compact. I 43:02 mean, it's 71 minutes. We We It's barely a feature including the credits. Including the credits. Barely a feature. So, it's this little capsule and people are going in and finding solidarity with people next to them and saying, 'Who are you? Why are you here?' and crying together. We've had so many comments and people writing in and anecdotal report backs that people are finding new community um in the theater. They're showing up. But you say crying. Where are the tears coming? What is it about the film that causes people to tear up? You know, it's a really good question and I've almost wanted to ask that of people because I don't think it's sadness per se as a sort of an overarch overwhelming emotion. I mean, you you were you used the word poignant and I think that that gets at it. Um, I mean, I think it's recognizing that life is is complicated and that you're someone that many people have such affection and respect for and seeing you process it helps them reflect on how their own processing it. And I 44:01 think that that can't help but bring forth some sort of emotion. I have a slightly different theory. Okay, hit us with it. Well, that's we are in a very horrible, stressful, dark period of time. And people know this. Even if they don't want to admit it, even if they don't want to face it, it is with them. And when they have a chance to join with other people in a movie theater and see something that is that they find uplifting or they find that is emotionally connected to them but is not connected to Trump and the Trump regime. I think there is a I think the tears are tears of relief and tears of solidarity. I believe that. Yeah. I'm going to write that testimonial down and not mention that you I mean you guys made the film. No, I mean I just Well, I think what's wonderful about a film is that it's it's all those I mean you don't everybody comes at it with 45:01 their own emotions and what affects you. It was interesting is you ask people what resonated with them and people give a lot of different parts of the film. It's not only one thing, but I really do think you're right, Bob, that this idea of coming together and we see this, you know, whether it's in protests, whether it's in civil action, whether it's all those kinds of of of online online even, but just the importance of gathering with others and finding that sense of solidarity. And that's why we're really making a a push to put it into movie theaters because we really believe that movie theaters are a place where people can literally come together uh across different demographics, soio, economic, racial, age, all of that and really sort of have a common experience. And then and what's what's fun what's wonderful is we you go to these things these screenings and people just congregate in the lobby and they're just talking to people they've just met for the first time and about about their own experiences about the film and and that is in some ways the best kind of reviews we could have. Now, we've thanked each other, which I enjoyed doing, but can we just thank all the people that have gone 46:03 to the theater selling out extended runs? The lastclassfilm.com is where you go to see it is last time we counted 49 theaters in 22 states, but it's probably even red states. I mean, I definitely red at the number of red states and red so-called red cities that this film is doing well in. It's so So, it's the lastclassfilm.com. It's so exciting. Um, thank you for letting us do it. Well, I want to formally and explicitly thank both of you for doing it. Thank you. Uh, you caught me by surprise. And a lot of other people by surprise. Yes. Um, and I want to thank um well, I want to thank all of you out there as well as we come to an end of another coffee clutch. This is the end of the first six months of the most most trying despotic regime I can remember in my lifetime. The most trying stressful time I can 47:06 remember. And so I want to thank you for going through this with us. And I want to thank you and uh and Jordan Alport who's the person who's behind the cameras uh and someone you know uh Michael Lahannes Calderon uh who's also been helping out and Naomi Bradford uh who's been editing uh but mostly I want to thank you because it's your support not just of us and the movie and inequality media civic action but it's your support of decency. It's your support of the social contract in America. Uh it's your belief that we can get back on the road that we were on toward a better society and a better world that I want to thank because unless you are fighting for that there 48:06 is literally no hope. uh keep on going, keep on making the decisions you're making in terms of demonstrating and striking and making bad trouble and writing and causing a ruckus and going to town halls with Republicans who are in your town or in your vicinity uh and making sure they understand how you feel and their responsibility to you and to our country. We'll see you next week. Heartwarming, nostalgic, and unifying. Democracy is not a spectator sport. Learning is not a spectator sport. It's active. I thought it was marvelous. It's an extremely timely film. It was very raw. A lot of humanity in this time we live in now. It was definitely tough to think about the future, but this documentary definitely gave me hope. I think everybody should see this film. Everybody should see The Last Class. And I love the focus on inequality and the need to address it. I think educators should see this. Young families should see this. I think it'll give them hope for these dark days that we're living in right now. I think it's to send a timely message to our country right now to really examine where we've been throughout our history to determine where we want to go. I think we are more united than we are divided. And if more people get that message, we might be able to pull it back together.

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