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COMMENTARY THE COFFEE KLUTCH ... AUGUST 2ND, 2025 with Robert Reich and Heather Lofthouse The Trumping of America PLAY YOUTUBE VIDEO Original article: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KKKlprOrUoY
The Trumping of America Robert Reich 1.28M subscribers Premiered 5 hours ago The Coffee Klatch with Robert Reich What do Trump’s terrible job numbers mean for the economy? Are Democrats finally standing up to AIPAC? What fallout can we expect from Trump’s latest tariffs? We answer the biggest questions of the week on the Coffee Klatch. How this content was made Auto-dubbed Audio tracks for some languages were automatically generated. Peter Burgess COMMENTARY Peter Burgess Transcript 0:00 And it is the Saturday coffee clutch with Heather Loft House and yours truly, Robert Rash. I guess I want to start out, Heather. This has been another grueling week. I don't know how you feel. How are you doing? Can I ask you how you feel for once after you tell me how you feel? Oh gosh. I'm actually I'm okay. Better than last clutch. I was like it was a low day. Today is a medium day. Um my family's coming back from having been traveling. So that's nice. That is great. though that's personal. We can talk about the personal later. I think we should talk about the political and the personal, right? But so that's me. Wait, but back to you. How are you today? Well, I'm I'm I'm okay, but you know, the other day somebody asked me how I'm doing and I just blurted out shitty. Yeah. And I realized that I'm shitty because of the person who's in the White House and the effect, you know, it's almost subconscious. It's the kind of negative, you know, awful sadistic effect that everybody is feeling even again even 1:04 subconsciously. I mean, you go about your day and people are busy and I'm busy and a lot of nice things happen and but this is you can't get away from it. I know he's infected so much. I mean, he's just it's awful. But I don't what what are we going to talk about today? So, so much to talk about. Big economic news. I really want your two cents on this, please. Okay. But I think the first thing we should tariffs have been So, he's been threatening Trump, by the way. Yes. Hold that. Yeah. Because I want us to talk about tariffs as import taxes. Yes. Because they are not Nobody knows the word taxes or tariffs, but import taxes. That's what they are. They're import taxes. And they are paid for by us, by Americans. Um, and so tariffs, let's let's get away from committee. Okay, we'll do a rebrand. Okay, rebrand. So these tariff import taxes that Trump has been threatening and then he moves the date and then he doesn't move the date and then he moves the amount and then he and and it's so just handshaking 2:06 with all these different people and being it's so personal. It's like each deal, you know, everybody's waiting, but what's Trump going to decide? We're getting to the the final hour, the final minute, and the Canadians, what is he going to decide? And it's not based on rational data analysis. It's what's he gonna decide in that moment? That is the point. We are in a and this is really a theme that I suggest we talk about today. Let's do it. Um the theme is that we you and I were brought up in a world of law and a policy that that is rational that people had to justify the laws and the policies on the basis of public interest. The Masters in public policy. That's how I met you. Two years studying how we carefully assess the scenarios, what's happening in the world. Heather, I'm I apologize. I want to apologize to you now because what am I doing with that degree? But because because public policy and law, I know a lot about public policy 3:03 and I have a law degree. It's irrelevant. We're dealing in a world in which we have one person who's making personal deals and they are at his whim and everybody else is trying to figure out what he's going to do next and why he's going to do it. Uh and we are so far away from a world of law, you know, the rule of law, uh that it's sometimes staggering to think about where we used to be. I mean the constitution now I you sometimes kid me for do you have I don't have with me but I know it by heart I mean article 1 section 8 says that tariff customs all duties originate with congress congress has the power to decide on tariffs well nope that's not the case these days I mean he's he is using he conjured up an emergency a national emergency based on uh the balance of payments uh and the the that feels like ages ago by the way 4:04 and the Yes. And the and the national the debt balance and so that's his poster board. Remember that. Yes. And that so-called emergency creates his authority to what? To deal with every individual nation and strike a different deal. And we don't even know what the deals actually are. And nobody's publicizing the deals. And for all we know, he's pocketing money off these deals. Or or maybe he's pocketing some, I don't know, some future agreement to have a Trump uh resort in wherever this country is. I mean, what what kind of a we're so far beyond the rule of law uh that it's it's hard to even talk about it. I know. It almost feels more like you would see this at a corporation or in the mafia or mafia is closer in a f like it's this does not read democracy. It's the opposite of democracy. This is this is what we fought the revolutionary 5:01 war about. This is this is taking on, you know, a despot who who has his own view from one minute to the next of what he wants. And the guy at the top, that's it's the guy at the top. We really got to it's it matters about the guy at the top and we can't and mergers and acquisitions you mentioned that in your Substack these Wall Street people who are like you know I really as I'm working on things I really got to take into account the intrusions of the people at the White House. All these lawyers are advising their clients and we're talking about big corporations and the big corporate lawyers. They're saying well let's see let me let me see about what I can find out about what they want in the White House whether they're going to approve this particular merger this particular ac acquisition. uh Columbia University, I mean all of that, Harvard University, all the universities, uh all the individual law firms, all the individual uh media companies, all the, you know, they're all vying uh for Trump's attention, his good graces. They want to avoid pissing him off. What are we living in now? This is this is uh it's 6:03 so personal, Heather, that it is to me it resembles everything I know about fascism. This is fascism. I know it is. And this week, so Canada, our neighbors to the north have been talking about a lot of things, but one thing is they were talking about Palestine and the fact that they would say it was a free state potentially the end of September. And then Trump says, 'Excuse me, what? Watch me with my tariff card. Forget about Article 1, Section 8.' Yes. I'm going to put a 35% tariff on everything coming from Canada. And I'm sorry I used the word tariff. It was an import tax, a 35% import tax on everything coming from Canada. You know, think of the oil, think of the lumber, think of the auto parts. I mean, all kinds of things. Uh, and this is this is vindictive because why? Because he doesn't like the Canadians and they 7:00 haven't been cooperating and because they saluting. They they they're not saluting and they they decided because it's their right to decide whether they recognize a Palestinian state and under what circumstances. So what does this fascist in Washington decide? He's going to just do what he wants to do and and charge Americans a 35% import tax on Canadian everything coming from Canada while he's supporting Netanyahu. Let's be clear about that. while he is supporting Netanyahu. And this is why you can't separate out, you know, one issue like import tax tariffs from other issues like what's happening in Israel right now. It's all the same. It all comes together around this fascist in the White House. So, there was some movement on American soil with regard to Gaza this week. We talked about it last week on the clutch, but seeing these kiddos, Americans, I mean, there's been murder that we've seen, but somehow watching starving children, 8:04 that's it. Makes people rise up in a way that they hadn't previously. Well, here's where my age comes in because I remember so distinctly a turning point in Vietnam in the public's feeling about why we were in Vietnam, whether we should be in Vietnam when you saw these these these photos of these little children, you know, kind of fleeing from Napal and, you know, naked. Um, and and the and the public saw these photographs and said, 'No, this is wrong. We are not going to allow this.' and the starving children in Gaza. Uh I think it's just changing public opinion, even Jewish public opinion. I mean, I I can't tell you how many people are now saying to me, you know, I'm Jewish, you're Jewish. Uh we are obviously not anti-Semitic. Uh but we are anti- anti-Netanyahu. You know, this is a this is an 9:03 authoritarian fascist regime doing uh some of the terrible things that resemble not the same obviously, but it's that resemble what was done in the 1930s in in Germany to the Jews. I know. And Trump and Netanyahu, I mean, they're these two authoritarian leaders and Putin. These are the three. I was going to say synchronized synchronized sinners. Synchronized sinners. Did you say synchronized swimmers, but different? It's not exactly No, it's not. They're together. It's really ugly. But back to the militaryindustrial complex that America loves to support or some Americans make happen. Um and so this week 27 Dems right in the Senate in the Senate voted in support of this resolution by Bernie Sanders um which to not give any military aid to Israel. This is a huge deal, Heather, because you've got the Apac, the, you know, the 10:05 the Israeli lobby, uh, that, you know, has spent huge amounts in these campaigns and the Republicans are in their pockets and the Democrats have been, but Democrats are now saying, 'No, we are not going to allow this this kind of uh mass starvation.' Right? And you know, Netanyahu has already turned Gaza into rubble. We are not going to allow this humanitarian crisis, this humanitarian this indecency. You know, I've I've talked to members of the Senate, senators who are who are talking about Netanyahu now as a war criminal. And he is. I know. But it took a long time for us to get here. Yeah. Right. In terms of the language, you saw Angus King wrote that terrific letter. you know, Angus King, he's an independent. Um, but like Bernie Sanders, these independents from New England, hey, they are in the lead. They are taking the lead. Uh, and I wish the 11:04 Democratic party u, you know, was as courageous as a whole, right? But they're they're getting there. And what was that Eisenhower quote? Remember, you've said yes. Yes. Yes. I have it. I have it. Okay. This is this is from 1953. He says every gun this is Dwight Eisenhower now you remember Dwight Eisenhower and 75 years ago. Do you I mean whatever you don't have a direct no memory. I don't he's not in my speed dial but he he he talked you know he was the most boring speaker. I mean when you listen to Dwight Eisenhower I mean I remember I was a little kid I would go oh do we have to listen to Dwight Eisenhower on that? He would say every but he's had good things to say. Every gun that is made, every warship launched, every rocket fired signifies in the final sense a theft from those who hunger and are not fed, those who 12:01 are cold and are not clothed. In other words, the military industrial complex was taking away resources that we needed and the world needed. It wasn't just the United States. the world needed uh to avoid the starvation and and hunger and and I mean all of the uh all of the worst miseries of mankind, right? And he's saying one gun and we're talking about millions of guns, tens of thousands of assault rifles. There is no justification, let's be clear, for sending military aid to Netanyahu and this horrible regime. This does not make me anti-ionist or anti-semitic when I say that. And let's separate these issues. So, here we have it's been so interesting to watch how long this is taking. Right? We've talked about ceasefires. We've been watching the horrendous horrific happenings for ages now. But having the zeitgeist catch up 13:02 or the politicians catch up to the zeitgeist or having all Americans see it in a more in a similar way. So the other thing that's been happening is we have the tariffs are about to hit, right? Like we keep Is it in this week? Is it tomorrow? Are they prepping? Is it yesterday? Not tariffs. Import taxes. So the import taxes I feel like we have to say import tax the tariff import taxes to help transition. But I think it's important that people see these as taxes. Totally. Okay. So these tariffs, these tariff taxes, these import taxes in the in under the guise of tariffs. Yeah. Is that better? Yeah, it's pretty good. So, they're coming in, but when are people going to see the prices affecting them? We're starting to see this. There's been new economic data out that we have to talk about this week. Well, I this was was this was a big week for economic data and it showed the um consumer price index and other indices inflation prices showed uh an uptick in 14:02 inflation. Uh, you know, this is Trump is saying to Jerome Powell in the Fed, you've got to lower interest rates. Well, you don't lower interest rates when you see inflation on the horizon and when you see all of these import taxes being just about applied, uh, including 35% and we didn't even talk about 50% on Brazil. Oh, I know. I mean, coffee clutch, hello. How are we going to be even more? This is going to be so But that's another personal coffee. I mean, that's he doesn't like what they're doing judge. It is personal. This is another example of personal because Trump doesn't want uh Trump hates Lula uh in Brazil and he's going after Lula because of Lula's efforts to hold accountable Bolsinaro uh Lul Lula's predecessor in Brazil who did just what Trump did. tried to uh you know overturn an election and uh and urged people to go and and and uh go after the government officials and and attack government office buildings. 15:06 In other words, Trump is using tariff policy uh sorry import tax policy uh to punish Brazil. Uh this is again this is one man this is Donald Trump fascist oneperson rule deciding what he's going to do vindictive and and kind of all over the place. But Bob so if his goal isn't economic is it it's just power and watch my whims. It's it's yes I have the power. I want everybody whether you are Canada or another country or Columbia University or a law firm or you know the Smithsonian or whoever you are I want you to come and beg me. I love people coming and begging and and and just making deals with me. And by the way, if the deal happens to be a little bit of a a little bit of a paytoplay, you know, like uh maybe a giant jumbo jet that's a 16:04 palace, uh that's even better. So, but also and I will punish those of you who aren't coming to beg at my feet and anybody who critic and if you crit criticize me or if you allow people to criticize me if you are CBS uh you know I might not even allow you CBS to sell yourself uh to to be part of a merger with you know your your parent company Paramount to be sold. Um, I'm I'm I'm so control. I have so much vindictiveness and so much control over government that I can I can basically make your life miserable. If you're Jeff Bezos, you know, you have antitrust. I can use antitrust against you, Jeff Bezos. So, you make sure that the Washington Post uh doesn't say anything critical of me, but it's on such a huge scale. I mean we this is global personal global personal and this is not again contrast this this 17:03 with a rule of law which is predictable which is based on some facts logic and it's based on the public interest this has nothing to do with any of that but the other thing about all of this is it it get it's you know creates a fog around Epstein stuff. Oh well it creates a fog around the jobs report. I'd love for you to talk about that, too. But you don't even have to have much of a fog around Epstein because what did they do this week? I mean, what the Justice Department it it it it's again a personal deal. Personal deal. Yeah. And Gileain Maxwell has just been moved to a softer, more minimum security. Minimum security. Now, you look at that. Why do you suppose why is she why is she moved to a minimum security prison? Could it be that she has some agreement there that she might not implicate Trump? I know. I mean, the jobs report. Can we talk about So, we have I'm tired of talking about the 0.0000%. Can we talk about everyone else for a 18:05 minute? How is everyone else in this country doing? I mean, the jobs report was not good. No, I I think it was the worst jobs report we've had in some time in terms of the number of new jobs being created. So with regard, this is important with regard to the jobs report. Yesterday's jobs report 73,000 new jobs, Heather. Now without context, that's meaningless. Uh the context is that the the average new job growth uh is about 200,000. I mean, that's what you expect. If the economy is doing halfway decent, you get 200,000 new jobs because of population growth. Uh but no uh we had 73,000 and it and the Bureau of Labor Statistics they very often do this. They have to what they do is they get more information from previous months. They had to uh as they have before but the 19:00 they revised downward the actual job growth for May and June. So you got 73,000 for July. In May, the job growth actually was revised down to 19,000. That's from 22 125,000 down to 19,000. And for June, from 147,000 down to 14,000. So you had, in other words, 238,000 jobs. 258,000 jobs. 238,000. 20 58 58. You are a mathematician. I try. You are so good. Thank you for noticing. that was so that was subtracted. Uh and this is this is what you know the Bureau of Labor Statistics they are so careful to modify when they get additional information. Also of course you revise something that comes out on the first of the month for the previous month. I mean imagine in all of our accounting have you ever found someone that can close a month the first day of the next month? Well, no, but they but what they do, they try to be as accurate as they can and that their accuracy, they are known for their 20:05 accuracy and their politically they are insulated from politics. You know, I I once made a terrible mistake. It was on an international um discussion of jobs and uh it was in Paris and they called me uh in my office at the labor department when I was labor secretary and they said uh translator from French uh how many new jobs do you expect the labor department is going to show in its monthly labor report tomorrow? And I and I said well I don't know. I mean obviously I they don't tell me and I cannot know but I'm I my guess would be and I gave them a guess and it was translated back into French as uh I expect. I see. And then it went around the world. Interesting. And people were so upset with me as if I had seen you know seen the figures sneak peak. So they they really are careful. Uh but 21:02 here's the other thing. When these revisions came out yesterday, what did Donald Trump do? This is in line with our theme about personal, everything is personal, personal and loud, vindictive, angry, and taking over. So he says that the commissioner of labor statistics um this woman who is uh you know very very careful, very diligent, who has been absolutely there's no reason to think anything other than professional. He says that she should be fired. This is on Truth Social immediately. I mean, this is this is Trump's response to bad news. Yeah. And well, to news that makes him look bad. News that makes him look bad. That's right. And it's just he goes after the messenger. Always always do that. Well, when you do that repeatedly, what you're doing is reducing the public's trust and faith in institutions of government like the Bureau of Labor Statistics that you 22:05 need the public to trust. You need to have so much faith. I mean, the same thing with the Fed. I mean, he's going after the Fed. He just goes after the Fed because he doesn't like what the Fed is doing. Uh, and he just undermines the credibility. That's his mo. I know it. Okay, let's get back to some other things. At the same time, you've got the financial economy uh getting more and more frothy. Uh more and more risky. I saw you say frothy in your frothy. It's just, you know, it's just it's not when I use the term frothy, what I mean about the financial markets is it's bubbly. You know, it's just bubble bubble bubble bubble. It's not the real economy. They are they are just speculating and there's more and more big money speculating. Uh look at what we know now about Microsoft uh or Meta. Uh they are putting huge amounts of money gambling billions and billions and billions on 23:04 artificial intelligence. Is that good? Is that bad? Well, if everybody is betting on artificial intelligence and those huge bets uh turn out not to be particularly good or if somebody else you know like China uh come exceeds us well what then I mean if if you you've you've bet the the entire the entire house yeah on something uh but also the junk bonds are coming back do you remember them? Mhm. Uh those are high-risk loans. Uh they you know they charge a huge amount of money. Uh if you are not getting a big return on those junk bonds, what then? I mean you might not be able to pay them back. Crypto of course and we have this new you know the comproller. The comproller of the controller. Controller. I know. But there's an MP. I mean come on. Controller of the currency. Yeah. But I mean it's a different word than controller. Well it's a it depends on how you say it. Controller. It's a different spelling. No, the controller. How many times in a normal conversation do you talk to the controller of the currency? I try, especially this one. I try to not 24:09 go there. The But he's, you know, another Trump. Yes. Another Trump appointee buddy who now has authority under the so-called Genius Act just passed by Republicans in Congress uh to regularize. I mean what we all know what he's doing is basically going to take the hands off crypto you know stablecoin in particular which Trump has a huge stable coin company endeavor and this is again go back to our theme this is personal it's all personal this is all Trump as the what benefits him what you know he's he's raking it family is raking it in on crypto it's so focused on him this is malignant narcissist ism 101. It's malignant narcissism and its corruption. Uh, and we're going to look back on this era, assuming historians in 25:04 the future can write the truth. Uh, and they will be able to, Bob. I think so. Come on. I think so. We have to. Well, okay. Promise me. I think I'm not going to promise anything because I can't guarantee anything. But but I think that they are going to look back on this period of time and and just say, 'Well, what you know, what was this? was that you know that we we went per through a period where we had policy public policies and laws and we had restrictions and we had a constitution and now we're having a kind of you know the Republican party are they are all zombies and the personal vendettas right so Jerome Powell he's bullying Jerome Powell he's saying and he's bullying this is how he does it he uses another part of government in this case he's saying Jerome Powell approved some renovations at the Fed that are very very expensive and you know they talk about hypocrisy. We'll get to that in a minute. So Jerome Powell you know kind of uh did 26:05 something wrong and and Jerome Powell sat Voce what Trump is saying I'm going to get you. You don't do what I want. You don't lower interest rates. You are in trouble because I'm going to embarrass you. I'm going to humiliate you. I'm going to create a scandal around you. I can do that because I know how to do that. on Donald Trump. Well, Trump, Paul, so Powell and the Fed so far are saying no, we're not going to cut interest rates because prices are are inching upward. That's not what we are going to do now. U but consider what Trump is doing even to the Fed. Let's assume for the sake of the argument that he gets a Fed chair in there who plays his game who does exactly what what Trump wants. Trump says reduce interest rates, he does it, right? And yet also assume that the you're an investor in the market or you're a corporate investor, whatever. And are 27:05 you going to be feeling secure about interest rates and inflation? No. You're going to say to yourself, 'The cop on the beat is gone.' Right. I don't like this hypothetical game. No, but this is real. This is what is actually happening. Jerome Powell has said he's not going anywhere. Well, Trump has kind of flirted with the fact that he could or could not try to fire. He still I mean Jerome Powell still has some time left in his term. Uh but not forever. And Trump is already auditioning other Fed chairs. I know in the data people are a little worried about there are so few people working around the data that it's problematic. We really need to have people crunching the numbers being able to check on the prices of things. Yes. Over the Bureau of Labor Statistics, the Bureau of Labor Statistics, which I you know I am not enamored with most most government agencies. But I'll tell you when I was labor secretary uh that 28:04 group of people had so much talent and so much integrity and they still do but they are being starved just like most other agencies problem because you need data to make financial decisions. Uh you do you absolutely do. Uh, but the hypocrisy you were referring to a moment ago, Trump is saying Jerome Powell is pouring money into renovations of the Fed building. Meanwhile, what is Trump doing at the White House? Let's build a $200 million ballroom. Yeah. And let's model it off Mara Lago and it's going to be Louis Couture. It's going to be even bigger than the White House in terms of square feet. I mean, where else is one going to eat one, let them eat one's cake and host one's This is the people's house. I mean, we're getting away from the people's house when we're trying to create a ballroom that is larger than the White House that is gilded in gold leaf. 29:02 I know. Filigreed. Filigreed. Fil full of greed. Full of greed. Full of greed. It's pretty good. I know. Um, so and also what about when he went to Scotland on our taxpayer dollars and and was there for his he was there for his golf course. He go I mean it's become normalized. We we now think, well, of course he's going to rip us off. Well, that's dangerous thinking itself. A lot of people say, 'Well, of course he's going to be making side deals for himself. That's dangerous. We can't allow that to be normalized.' Okay. What do we do? Should we talk about this? Oh, first. Yeah, this is perfect. What? Because I mean, when I think what do we do and I ask you and I think what do we do and I try and tell people, I do think about the midterms. I think about um elections coming up and the gerrymandering. We haven't talked about that. I can't we can't finish our cups. You're not quite done. Neither am I. Until we talk about the gerrymandering that's happening, which is also 30:01 personal, right? So this is in Texas this week where Trump basically says, 'Governor Abbott, I need you to find me five seats. I need you to go ahead remap. Governor, this is the president. We're going to need five. I want five more Republican seats out of Texas.' I mean, he can you again this is so counter to what we believe in in this country in terms of rule of law. Now, people ask me, should California, Gavin Newsome, governor, try to counter what uh Greg Abbott is doing in Texas? Not just Newsome, but a lot of Dems in a lot of states and some more important. Should should New York and Illinois try to gerrymander uh more radically? So, if they gerrymander, we gerrymander. Well, this is this is actually a subtle question. It's an ethical question. It's also a question about democracy. Uh I mean if Democrats and progressives do the same thing, you know, they say, 31:05 'Well, we have to fight fire with fire.' I understand that. But it also means that we are denigrating and undermining constitutional norms and values the same way they do. I know it it's a hard I go back and forth. Heather, how do how do you feel? I find it very difficult and I think of examples that so many people bring up when the Democrats sat on their hands and could have been more aggressive and could have, you know, up gone up against the traditions and protocols and it would have been better for democracy. Well, I think of Michelle Obama. Well, when she said, you know, when they go when when they go down, you know, we go low, we go high. Yeah. We go higher. And I I worry a little bit that that attitude may be making it harder for Democrats to do what they need to do right to conquer this uh this fascist. But also it's I mean I know it depends 32:02 what models you're looking at but this is going to be fascinating the midterms and it is all important. We know that for democracy but is five seats enough if if it's enough in certain scenarios? I mean how is all of this going to play out? I obviously don't know. And there special elections between now and the midterms. Uh there are also very important mayoral contests like New York City. Um and when I look around the country at the way voters are moving, I am encouraged, right? I think there are more and more people who say, 'I just the these Republicans, all they want to do is go after immigrants and after transgender uh kids and after, you know, that has nothing to do with my life. What about prices of things? What about making things affordable to me? What about helping me with with child care?' Uh, and the Democrats are getting it. This is what Mumani actually talks 33:00 about, right? Uh, and I think that other Democrats are beginning to say the same thing. It's bread-and-but issues. It's kitchen table economics. It's what people want and need. Uh, and get away from your your scapegoating, your your your boogeymans. Mhm. Exactly. You're othering. You're othering. But he's so good at it. The con man's con man. He's very good at taking over language. Taking over, you know, this is an era of anger, anti-establishment anger. I understand it. I've been chronicling it for years. Um, but what what what Trump has done over his first and now his second term of office, and he's doing it even more crazily, is to channel that anger into really the scapegoating of them, them, and them, and them, and them instead of what the Democrats ought to be doing is saying the real problem. You want to know what the real problem is? It's corporations are too powerful, right? And rich people are too powerful and they are 34:02 they are taking their wealth and their power and they're abusing it by destroying our democracy, undermining our democracy with their all their money, their their campaign contributions. That's why we are in the fix. We are in it's not just Trump. Trump is the consequence, the culmination of all of this. Did you read about at the Smithsonian there's an exhibit about um presidents who have been impeached and so there were three and then Trump was there and so they adjusted the exhibit so that he was added but now we might adjust the exhibit so that he's not in it because Smithsonia the Smithsonian well because I think we seriously serious reasons for impeachment you know it's it's a it's a matter of words but this is this is again the surrendering in advance the the desire not to piss him off. Yeah. Uh so what can we do not to piss him off? His power is not just direct, it is indirect. It is all of the chilling 35:02 effect he is having all over the country. All these institutions don't want to make him upset and angry because he could do anything. Right. So you mentioned that you've been chronicling how we got to Trump. You've been talking about these things. I we have Pardon me while I stand up. up. I think Michael and Jordan are going to get mad at me. Your new book, if I may, is coming out coming up short. It comes out this coming week. This coming Tuesday. Is that this Tuesday? Tuesday. Where did the time go? Um, but so inequality media civic action is going to be raffling off a couple signed copies. So, thank you for scribbling your name for us. You know, tell us about it. It is coming up short is a double entandra. Of course, it's about me. Mhm. I didn't grow you know full full of growth. Um I came up short. Uh but the country my generation also came up short in terms of you know my fathers and my parents' 36:00 generation they bequeathed to us. My generation uh and when I say my generation I'm talking about boomers primarily you know George W. Bush and Bill Clinton and Donald Trump and Clarence Thomas and I. We were born about the same time. Um they was that 46. Can we talk about that? 1946. Yeah. 19 Heather. Everybody who's anybody obviously was born in 1946. We know care. I mean Dolly Pardon. Keep it going. I mean I could keep going. There's no reason to keep it going. I mean everybody that's everyone. I mean everybody matters. But it but the reason we were born in 1946 is not complicated. There was a war. My father came home, there was my mother and boom, boomers, baby boom. I mean, that was it. Yeah. But they bequeathed to us a a country that was not perfect. I mean, women were still secondass citizens. Black people were still secondass citizens. But we at 37:03 least tried. We were we were we were beginning on the path. And then uh we blew it in the sense that in the late 70s and the beginning of 80s particularly with Ronald Reagan uh the country did a U-turn instead of building and strengthening the middle class instead of making it a land of opportunity and diversity and equity and inclusion right we became topheavy more and more of the wealth of this country went to the top. More and more of the income went to the top. And out of that came more and more inequality of education and inequalities having to do with healthcare and inequalities having to do with everything you can imagine. And I think that it led ultimately to the 2008 financial crisis 38:00 in which you know the the bankers and the people at the top who were responsible for gambling um they got away with it. They got bailed out by taxpayers and millions of Americans y lost their homes and their jobs and their savings. And that's when a lot of people began to say the game is rigged and this is not my democracy anymore. This is well that's what I try to get to in the book. I mean I'm I'm I'm trying to explain it because I was there through but that's what I like. you interweave the personal history and the and the country's history. There's kind of broader themes and then individual stories. I didn't have any choice. I just I wanted to talk about what I learned um particularly in the public sector and um and the teaching which is very important to me. I know and that last chapter is pretty great. Oops. 39:00 Did I say that out loud? Um, also you and I are going to be talking about the book and other things at for those who are local um, Wednesday, August 13 at Broadway SF. So, which is at the Golden Gate Theater, an event with Book Passage. And so, we will be in San Francisco on August 13 if anyone wants to come. Well, in fact, I'm starting my book tour. Is that the kickoff? Monday? No, I'm starting at Monday. I'm going to be on Steve Coven Cobar's show Monday night. Are we allowed to tell people that? I don't think so. Great. Uh, and then I I do a lot of other things. Um, for the next, you know, I don't really like book tours. Can I confess this to you? Keep it to yourself. Well, I think Can you keep it to yourself, too, please? It's just us. I think it's the logistics and the But you like, but it's also it's also you feel like a traveling salesman. I know. You know, you're you're you're fgging. You I know, but people are so excited to I don't know. I mean, it's one thing a movie is one thing. And you did the movie. you and Elliot Kushner. U a beautiful movie and I was very touched 40:04 by your movie. Uh but it's different when it's when it's when it's a when it's a memoir. It's it's personal. It's me. Yeah. But it's very it's a it's historical. It's not just this was me and my feelings when I was in middle school and my feelings when I was in my 20s, you know, it really it's crafting of narrative that's important to read. Well, I I mean I it's all me and it's all very sincere and it's what I lived what I saw. But we dovetail in terms of the movie because it's your the movie is a personal side of you too and it's you looking at the decision to retire from the huge course you taught. Just to be clear, you do a few little classes here and there now, but this big course, it was 750 students. You had 30 teaching assistants. That's 30 graduate student instructors. That's a class in and of itself. And so it was we would get together every week. We'd have our own such seminar. Um but the movie I just have to say thank you to everyone seeing it. And there it's in 50 theaters in 24 states. We 41:06 just we're doing more in Florida, more in Alaska. You know, one of my one of my sons uh saw it recently and said I said, 'What did you think?' He said, 'Dad, it was like a memorial service for you.' Oh no. And I said, I find it has such hope. Well, that other people have said it's uplifting and it's hopeful and but he Oh, God. Well, I think everyone should see it at the last film.com is where you go to see where it's showing and it is not a memorial. Heather, what is that? Can you give us that site again? Of course, I can give you the URL again. The lastclassfilm.com, which is also, this has not been announced yet. We are going to be doing a live watch along of The Last Class film. You and I are going to be watching it together. We might invite some other people. I don't know. We'll see. We're going to People are going to be able to watch us watching it. Yeah. But it's so fun. This is what the kids do. Watch alongs. So, we'll do it. And what? Because we want people to be able to see the film and help get their 42:04 friends into theaters. It is going in all of these independent theaters. Tucson sold out 370 seats. When I This is unbelievable, but I just have a question. When people watch us watch the film, are they going to be able to see the film? Yeah, of course. Do you think Michael would do it any other way? So, what happens is we talk at the beginning, you'll we have some popcorn, then we watch the movie, maybe we cut to us just twice watching the movie, crying, laughing, you know, choking on our popcorn, and then we do a Q&A afterwards. So, this is August 12th. It is going to be Tuesday, August 12th, 5:00 pm Pacific, 8:00 PM Eastern. So, anybody anybody can on this page, anybody can do it. Yep. And we're gonna say pay what you will. It's $0. If you want to just watch it for zero, you can chip in to help support the distribution of the film if you like. And we'll be announcing it soon. So, sign up at the lastclassfilm.com. We'll also say the um URL for it, the website for it, next clutch, because we have time before the next clutch because we do these weekly. We should do the last clutch. We should 43:05 do No, I want to do No, but have the first of many clutches. I know, but we could have a film. The last clutch when we if we ever have Are we going to There's too much to cover. There is too much. But with the tariffs and the coffee, it's going to be harder to clutch. But we will import taxes and and but I'm not going to flog this book. No, but I'm going to flog up coming up short. This is I'll put it back. Don't tell anyone I took. No, no, but it's not actually that copy is just a That's the That's the paperback G. It's a galley. Yeah. Okay. Uh but um there is so much more to talk about. There really is. And the irony is that uh your movie and this memoir are coming out or have been coming out just at the time when so many people so many of you out there understandably are are just so 44:02 upset and you have every right to be upset and I'm upset and Heather you're upset and and we started talking when we started this particular clutch today uh about how this fascist Trump regime is making us all all I think including many Republicans uh feel that something is fundamentally wrong. Uh it's immoral what's happening. Uh it violates all our all the ideas and ideals that we accepted and and took for granted. Uh and that is so disorienting. It is so disorienting heavy. But let me just say this. I want to thank you and I want to thank you. Thank you. Thank you. And Michael Lahannes Calderon. Thank you. 45:01 Cheers. Um but uh let me also thank all of you because despite being so disoriented and upset it upset and desparing and I know many of you are um you also are maintaining your sense of hope and your sense that we will get out of this, we will emerge and I When I mo me mentioned a moment ago about we had taken all of this for granted. We had taken the rule of law for granted. We had taken democracy for granted. We had taken uh much that we had been born into in America and the world for granted. Um, I think the the word of hope that I want to leave you with is that we will no longer be 46:00 taking it for granted. We see what happens when we become so indifferent to it. We don't see it. We don't appreciate it that we allow somebody like Donald Trump to take over in every respect and become a personal fascist authoritarian monarch instead of a president. And I do believe that that recognition, that understanding of how important the constitution and the rule of law and democracy are to us will be something that we will not forget. Our children will not forget their children who are now for some of us we have grandchildren they will not forget. In fact, it lays the foundation for a stronger democracy and a stronger America that respects the rule of law and also seeks social justice. So let me thank you again and on that note have a good week.

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