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COMMENTARY THE COFFEE KLATCH ... JUNE 7TH 2025 Robert Reich with Michael Lahanas-Calderon Who Gets Custody of JD Vance? PLAY YOUTUBE VIDEO Original article: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5ZVyEE7f718 Peter Burgess COMMENTARY Peter Burgess
Who Gets Custody of JD Vance? \| The Coffee Klatch with Robert Reich Robert Reich 1.23M subscribers Premiered June 7th 2025 The Coffee Klatch with Robert Reich The Donald is losing his legislative agenda, legal fights, and lovers. Get ready for the most unhinged and corrupt Trump yet. Let's discuss it all on today's Klatch. The Coffee Klatch with Robert Reich Transcript 0:01 and it is the Saturday coffee clutch with today Michael Landes Calderon Michael you're not Heather Loft House So I've heard But Heather couldn't be here today And thank you Happy to be here Thank you for being here Um so Michael what are we what's the agenda today What are we going to talk about Well big surprise We've got to talk about the Musk Trump breakup I know As Oh but also ooh I would say I mean there's Ooh There is both a there's a cringe and there's also a yes a lot of that and I think we'll get into that Um and we're also going to talk about the stuff that's behind all of that Uh which is the walls closing in or perhaps being hit by Trump as he's attempting to do all sorts of things Right Okay Now you didn't understand or you didn't know this about me but I was uh in my undergraduate college days I was a director Really Yes Of of theater of drama Drama Drama So I have taken the liberty uh kind of suspecting that you would want to talk about the Trump Musk breakup of of doing 1:05 a little script I am going to be playing Trump All right This is kind of the the seniority I mean I thought of course naturally I you know of I chose Trump They're both You were born the same year weren't you Miserable actually 10 days apart Wow My birthday is 10 days after Trump on the same year 1946 The universe had to counter him with you Yeah And I didn't know he was he was in the universe when I came in I mean I I I just I'm not sure I would have come in if I had known he was in the same country Fair enough I mean you know within 50 miles of where I was born My god I mean it was just Okay Anyway the script So I I have the script and um you are going to be Elon All right Which means you start first and we'll just go through this is yesterday Okay So or your starts actually before yesterday It seems we're starting on in February of this year back when everything was all lovely Okay but we can't go for every single month right We'll start in February and then we'll and then we'll jump to we'll jump to yesterday Okay so we start with Elon saying 'I love atreal 2:08 Donald Trump as much as a straight man can love another man.' Oh it's such a lovely very touching touching thing he said Okay And so then we move to June 3rd just a few days ago Trump's big bill is a disgusting abomination and shame on those who voted for it And in November next year we fire all politicians who betrayed the American people You saw a man this is Donald Trump talking to the public You saw a man who was very happy when he stood behind the oval desk even with a black eye I said 'Do you want a little makeup?' He said 'No I don't think so.' Which is interesting Elon and I had a great relationship I don't know if we will anymore Well Trump is showing such ingratitude and without me Trump would have lost the election and Dems would control the House Elon was wearing thin and I asked him to leave I would have won Pennsylvania regardless of Elon I'm very disappointed with Elon He knew this bill better than anyone and he only developed a problem when he found out I 3:05 would cut the electronic vehicles mandate to this Elon then retweets a uh post from a supporter who calls for Trump to be impeached and replaced with Vance simply by saying 'Yes the easiest way to save money in our budget billions and billions of dollars is to terminate Elon's government subsidies and contracts.' I was always surprised that Biden didn't do it While SpaceX will begin decommissioning its Dragon spacecraft immediately because of Trump's threats to cancel contracts Elon is suffering from Trump derangement syndrome Well now it's time to drop the really big bomb at real Donald Trump is in the Epstein files That is the real reason they have not been made public Have a nice day DJT Which then Elon goes on a posting rampage He reposts a video of Trump partying with Jeffrey Epstein in 1992 with a H emoji which he does all 4:01 the time He then posts a poll and asks 'Is it time to create a new political party in America that actually represents the 80% in the middle?' And the finishing touch peace to resistance the Trump tariffs will cause a recession in the second half of the year Well you know it's tempting Michael to be delighted and and and to find all this very funny Uh but the fact is that you know you have these two extraordinarily wealthy narcissists uh who are were running the country and have you know this bromance has broken up but the fact that these two people ever got to positions of power Oh it's astonishing I mean it but it's also an indication of just how much are oligarchy has taken over I mean they are the oligarchs They are representing the oligarchs big money maybe big money and big power I mean the it's the united front of big money and big power And so the headlines are big money and big power start coming apart But uh it's still there The structure is still there And I mean on the big money 5:03 point it's also funny to see Elon sort of explicitly saying I gave Republicans a bunch of money so they could win You know this is one of those instances where where the the veil comes down and you actually see the power structure M I mean also when when Donald Trump says I'm going to take away Elon's contracts or we should take away his contracts his SpaceX and his satellite and and Elon says no Well you know try to do that Try to do that See what happens Did you see he also said this morning he's going to sell his Tesla that Elon gave him that Yeah For yesterday morning excuse me But but you know what's interesting to me is that uh for example just take uh SpaceX SpaceX is responsible for something in the order of 95% of all of the payloads going into space right now And also one of the only ways that astronauts can get to and from the International Space 6:00 Station which is why he mentioned the Dragon spacecraft Exactly So who is more dependent on whom I mean that's what is really going on here Turns out in terms of SpaceX the United States is more dependent on Elon than Elon is on the United States or Trump which is not what you want right Which is generally a country being dependent on a single individual is concerning right You don't want it I mean this is exactly uh a replay of the first guilded age when these you know the Robert Barons you know the equivalent on of Elon Musk had control over the entire steel industry the oil industry the car industry I mean just a handful u and what did we as the United States have to do starting in with Teddy Roosevelt in 1901 and then all the way through Woodro Wilson Uh the question was do you break them up or do you regulate them And what did we do Uh well we did both We did both Uh but the the it's it's a similar question today uh with Starlink and and with SpaceX 7:03 uh you know there's a serious issue here they do you do you break it up do you create more competition do you try to regulate and I think that the regulatory option or the nationalization I mean one option uh floated by Steve Bannon of all he seems to keep popping up doesn't he it's kind of amazing it pops up like a like a bad penny pops up even though there are no pennies anymore uh Steve Bannon is saying uh we ought to basically nationalize SpaceX But it's not a crazy idea U because when you have that much power and that much I mean the satellites have now something in the order of 75 to 80% of all ground to earth satellite uh business uh putting Musk in the position of being able to exert control over other nations uh you know why why should he have that kind of 8:01 power the richest person in the world and space exploration spec I mean that's just a return to the norm right or at least the historic norm of NASA well that's it the historic norm was NASA the United States uh basically made these decisions and controlled all the contracts but now it is basically one man who arbitrarily on X his own platform will say I am cancelling the manned capsule to the ISS on a whim And then this was the other development yesterday Some random ex user with 184 followers said 'Maybe you shouldn't do that.' And he was like 'Okay I won't.' In the course of 24 hours Okay But but here I want to get back to this theme You've got two people okay Trump and Musk both with extraordinary arbitrary power in a democracy in which nobody is supposed to have that kind of arbitrary power So either you use antirust laws or you nationalize in the case of Musk and with Trump you use Congress and the courts 9:02 and all the other ways we hem in executive power Uh but this is all about power Let's not fool ourselves Uh and what happened on Thursday and a little bit on Friday in terms of the Trump Musk bromance ending uh we really do have to understand it in terms of these just these extraordinary uh underlying currents of oligarchic power But Bob I let me push back in a way that I hear lots of people in our comments pushing back all the time Isn't you know they call the Senate the greatest deliberative body in the world or senators call it that anyway But it's it's so slow The legislative process is stymied What what has the government ever done quickly or efficiently Can't surely policy by the speed of an expost is better No but that's the price we pay for democracy That's the price we pay for self-government I mean yes it could be a strong man You know Mousolini made the trains run on time You can have a a strong man that that takes over I mean 10:02 Singapore which is the model for a lot of Silicon Valley you know they would like you know a super technologist to take over and freedom cities and all of that right And have a freedom city like like Musk has in Texas Uh but if you want a democracy you've got to settle for something that is inefficient that is slow that is frustrating sometimes Uh but at least everybody is involved And it works for the common good rather than just the person with the biggest bank account Yes And the common good is not just an accumulation of the profits of every big corporation or the assets of every wealthy person The common good transcends individuals or corporations The common good is something that we we understand as a set of ideals that have been handed out to us uh from people who have sacrificed their lives I mean we're going to be soon celebrating the 250th anniversary of the beginning of the United States Army I mean Trump wants a big parade down Pennsylvania Avenue Well 11:05 no This is not the common good This is what he wants is to go back to the time when when we had a king You know we we fought 250 years ago We fought against King George III He wants to be King Donald II right now second term Uh but no we want to we want to we want to fight that Uh and we have to fight it I mean he even the tariffs he arbitrarily Michael puts in these tariffs uh which are really taxes And do you remember what what was the thing that Thomas Payne and everybody was saying during the revolution No taxation without representation I think that's still on some license plates Well if I remember correctly in Washington it may be but that's what that's what King Trump is trying to do So no King's Day which and I want to put in a plug I know you're going to be out there demonstrating I am And I hope you are too Uh this is going to be June 14th And June 14th we're not 12:03 celebrating Donald Trump's birthday We're out there demonstrating that we are not a kingdom We are not his monarchy We are a democracy and we believe in the ideals of democracy Well on that note I think we can get into some of the walls that wannabe King Trump is running into in our democratic system Well I think they're all rel this is all related Michael because I think he runs into these walls Uh and what is his natural instinct His natural instinct is to rage Oh of course What else can he do He rages But then he finds sort of these scapegoats But let's let's talk about first I we can talk about the chaos in Congress right And the big beautiful disaster that seems to be moving or shambling along without any actual you know result right It's a big beautiful uh bamboozle There you go 13:00 That's better BBB It is uh well because the Congressional Budget Office finds Now this is the Congressional Budget Office This is a nonpartisan group It's nonpartisan and they they're very courageous They've done a good job Uh they're headed by a Republican but they say that uh the the cost is going to add $2.4 trillion dollar to the national debt at a time when the national debt is already so large And sorry this is the Republican party the party of we don't like the deficit and we don't we want the national debt and they're raising it Well this is but see this is what's spooking the bond market Mhm Uh the reading the reason that Moody's and these other credit rating agencies have downgraded the national debt and the reason that long-term borrowers long-term lenders rather than the United States are demanding over 5% return on long-term debt which is pushing up mortgage rates which is pushing up all long-term debt uh is because people are saying to themselves that is the bond 14:00 traders the bond vigilantes are saying uh we're not going to trust the United States How can we trust them when a Republican a Republican Congress fiscal conservatives fiscal conservatives in good times This is not We're not talking about a pandemic or a war We're talking about pretty good times when they are willing to entertain the possibility of a $2.4 trillion addition to the debt Uh well we can't trust it No this is all about trust and that long-term debt starts mounting Those bond uh demands in terms of returns on bonds keep going up Uh and you get a a run on the dollar I mean the dollar actually internationally is no longer as preeminent as it was Well then that's when you buy Trumpcoin That's that's easy Solution found Well you know if you want to be really diabolically paranoid you could say that 15:01 that's what that's what the libertarians want Of course in your freedom city you know you've got your Trump coins for your private fire department That's right And you can go and you have your colony on Mars I mean if all else fails that's your that's your summer getaway Yep Well and Bernie had a good point on the bill Um which know I mean if we're talking about you know the amount of the deficit that is going up like what's in it right We've got if I'm remembering correctly and by which I mean looking at my numbers here you know why aren't they cutting $664 billion in tax breaks for the top 1% from that bill Well wait a minute 664 Mhm billion in tax breaks for the top 1% in that bill Uh why aren't they cutting that That's what Bernie said or asked rhetorically But it's a very important question because if you if you are on the verge of cutting 700 billion from Medicaid uh which provides health insurance for 40% of the nation's children and huge number of adults Uh 16:02 why do you have to do that when why not just instead not give a tax break $664 billion tax break to the top 1% Yeah And I was going to get back to that Medicare point because this is not rocket science Elon Even Elon it's funny I mean I doubt he was paying that close attention but he retweeted a post in his rage yesterday that included a point that said 'You should just cut the taxes cut the tax cuts.' And I was like 'Whoa hold on.' But Elon uh has has held on to every tax break he possibly can uh he doesn't pay I mean the amount of taxes he pays relative to his income and relative to his wealth is you know a disgrace Oh certainly a complete disgrace And I'm you know that quote tweet all it was was just part of his raging against Trump and trying to wreck the bill No but this is this all of this this all of these connecting the dots very very important uh because what we have here is again the an expose It's 17:03 the veil really lifted and you can see all the inner workings of the power in this this country the power structure of America Uh and when Bernie says uh 664 billion in the bill the the bill which cuts uh you know essentially 10.9 million people off of health coverage for an equivalent amount of money roughly speaking I mean you're talking about literally taking a stack of cash from people who are trying to get healthare and giving it to rich people Exactly This is this is not just Robin Hood in reverse This is cruel Robin Hood in reverse Uh and uh it is intentional This is exactly what the oligarchs wanted This is why they put Trump into office Uh Trump promised them another big tax cut And oh and don't forget the big corporations They're getting 420 billion in tax breaks too Oh four So that's on top of the 600 64 So these big corporations that's the last thing they 18:01 need They have been they have never been as profitable as they've been in the last few years They have used their monopoly power and they do have monopoly power uh to keep prices high Uh consumers basically decided that they didn't want to continue with Joe Biden because they thought prices were were too high uh and the failure to the extent that there was there any failure in the Biden administration was not even uh pushing hard enough on antitrust on busting up these centers of power Although to his credit Biden did a lot more with antitrust than either Clinton or Obama did And sadly not enough No But if you have these gigantic centers of power called corporations uh again you have the choice of either busting them up or regulating them Mhm Uh you don't want to just privatize government And that's what Elon Musk's Doge was after 19:04 right Under the guise of cutting waste Under the guise of cutting waste he's actually there's a lot that could not be cut but it was cut with the notion that the private sector i.e Elon or David Sachs or other Silicon Valley uh you know potentates would take over those functions and make a lot of money off them Of course Of course And they're using that same waste fraud and abuse I mean it's the mantra basically over and over and over again Um just yesterday Senate Republicans said 'Well maybe now we said we weren't going to touch Medicare but there could be waste fraud and abuse in that too And we would be it would be a shame if we didn't cut Medicare.' And it's like every sacred cow is open season Open season Waste fraud and abuse Do you know how long they've used waste fraud and abuse Michael Since since before you were thought of I believe that Now I know there's I don't want to dwell on our difference in age 20:00 but there is a there is a half century here And I want to just say that I heard waste fraud and abuse in the 1950s Oh my gosh and attacks on socialism and attacks on communism and uh you know it's it's not a new playbook I mean the the characters change but the playbook is very very similar at the very least The playbook that they're attempting to use isn't totally successful as I mean the theme of this section is Trump is hitting some walls Um so can we shift to immigration and the courts Yeah So uh Judge Boseberg one of our frequent mentions on this program ruled against Trump recently and he ordered the Trump administration to take steps to give due process to some of the migrants that were deported the Venezuelan migrants specifically to El Salvador And again that was an order I mean the important point here is that the federal courts are pushing the Trump administration harder and harder on this issue of due process And the issue of due process in a nutshell is you've got to at least 21:03 explain to people why they're being arrested or deported Uh and they've got to have an opportunity to contest those facts so-called facts or allegations before a neutral third party That's all it is Yeah Uh but uh because otherwise if you don't have that then there's nothing stopping ICE or the administration the regime from you know tomorrow taking you into custody or your you know your girlfriend or me uh and and saying alleging that we did this or we are here without papers or whatever they want to allege and we will never know it and we'll never know why and we'll we'll never have a third party a neutral third party reviewing the facts uh and we will never have an opportunity to contest this This is the this is why they're going after habius corpus as well which is the oldest doctrine judicially uh in our collection of rule of law doctrines And habius corpus means 22:02 habius corpus means you can't detain me without telling me why and giving me an opportunity to contest your allegations I mean it's it's it's fundamental And so what Judge Boasburg is doing and what the Supreme Court even what the Supreme Court did when it said uh you've got to facilitate the return uh of uh the fellow who went to El Salvador uh Obgo Garcia Oreo Garcia you know that that facilitation and of course the administration thumbmed its nose but there will come a point fairly soon I don't know whether it's going to be in the immigr ation battle or it's going to be over tariffs because the the international you know the United States trade court said uh Trump doesn't have authority to put to decide these tariffs arbitrarily u no taxation without 23:00 representation in other words uh a familiar phrase these days and so and so the uh and and and the Trump's uh administration is appealing that to the Supreme Court as fast as possible Um if the Supreme Court says to Trump you have no authority to do either what you're doing on immigration or what you're doing on tariffs These are two of the key planks uh that Trump thinks he was elected on given a mandate on Then we set up a true constitutional crisis because JD Vance and others around Trump are saying at that point Mr President sir at that point you've got to say to the Supreme Court you Yeah You cannot intrude on my domain Mhm And at that point we are we're nowhere We're in a constitutional crisis At that point I'm on the streets You're on the streets I think everybody is on the streets Oh certainly And just to be clear I'm 24:03 pretty sure JD Vance had specifically referenced um Andrew Jackson thumbming his nose at the Supreme Court back in the 1820s right Yes And it's not even clear Andrew Jackson did that I mean this is this may be apocryphal We don't know Historians are divided about whether Jackson did that But yes JD Vance Yale Law School graduate Really You went to Yale didn't you Yes And I'm ashamed to say it now And Clarence Thomas and Bill Clinton and Hillary Clinton They were all in my class Got to check what's in the water JD Vance He was What was that They got to check what's in the water at Yale Um you know Yale Law School was the place we all went in the 1970s because there were no public policy schools Mhm And if you wanted to do good in the world uh and you wanted to understand the system you went to law school Well not a lawyer I mean Harvard Law School produced you know corporate lawyers and the stream of Oh I see of usual white shoe lawyers Uh 25:05 no Uh Yale was the place you went if you really wanted to do policy Although most graduates still went at law firms and still practiced law Well that's where the money is Bob what are you doing Oh I don't know I made bad decisions U But uh but well back to tariffs for a second So this is another place where No no Um where Trump is hitting walls right And it's not just you know internally with the courts but it's also externally in terms of potential trade partners and certainly uh I wouldn't say friendly nations in terms of trade like China right Well China's standing up to him Xi Jinping uh and Trump had an hour and a half discussion uh and on telephone Can you imagine I mean I I didn't even know Trump's was Trump's ability has an ability to have a discussion for an hour and a half I can't imagine what the transcript of that must be No I I can't either Mr X would you give me some goods please U but uh so but he's getting nowhere I mean that the Chinese you know one thing 26:05 that they do very well is that they take the long-term view They are very patient They know whatever they have got to deal with is going to be gone you know at some point And that's the way they're dealing with Donald Trump They're not going to cave in to him And he knows that Why would you Well this is why he Xi Jinping and the Chinese are a very good representation of the kind of walls that Trump is now hitting the courts China um the uh and and China with regard to with regard to trade Uh what other walls Well I mean I think tariffs was was the last big one that we were going to talk about today but um I think I have another one for you Oh you have another one And that is the Senate The Senate Republicans are not going along with the big beautiful bill Oh well this I was reading about this I mean part part of this is just Senate pride right 27:05 A bill it has to go into the cooling saucer of the Senate where the tempers are you know whatever they tell themselves Michael I don't think it's just Senate pride I think it I think that the Republican senators feel with some justification uh that the budget that has been submitted this so-called big beautiful bill uh is going to take too big a bite out of Medicaid for some of these senators some of the Republican senators remember a lot of their constituents are dependent on Medicaid or true like Josh Holly who occasionally has a populist streak though of course he's okay with work requirements Yes And he's okay giving the a kind of fist bump to the the riers on the hill But um but there are other Republican senators who are worried about uh the debt Ron Johnson from Wisconsin is very adamant He says 'I'm not going to vote for this This is a piece of He didn't say but he did say the equivalent.' Yeah Um 28:01 and uh he said 'Yeah that's right Shinola.' Shyola and and so that there's no they're not they are not going to go with this Uh the the Senate Republicans can afford to lose only three Senate votes Uh the Democrats are not going to go with this Uh and already I can count maybe five Senate Republicans that have said under no circumstances So this is a big wall for for the president for Donald Trump Uh you've got his immigration policy you've got his tariff policy and you've got his big beautiful bill tax cut right And they're all stymied If he's hitting all these walls what is Donald Trump doing Ah well he's getting into a pissing match with uh with Musk Um but he's also every time he is cornered we know and we saw this again and again in his first 29:00 term uh he goes for the cultural populist jugular He finds scapegoats He just because he just he wants to be in the center of the ring and he wants to look powerful He wants to look powerful He doesn't and he doesn't want to look like a loser He wants to look like a winner And if he can't win on the big stuff he wants to show the country that at least he's winning on the stuff that we know uh is is just posturing Yeah But his base loves But his base loves I mean like going after Joe Biden opening an investigation of Joe Biden and Joe Biden's use of his autopen Now if I'm remembering correctly you used to run an autopen for a certain member of Congress back in the day Yes I did Uh Bobby Kennedy Robert F Kennedy the first I'm not talking about the junior right Um yeah when he was in the Senate I was an intern and I I I was very excited about 30:00 being in the middle of you know the fight for social justice and I discovered that I was in charge of the pen the auto pen the pen Well I had to line up all of the you know the all of his staff his uh assistants his secretaries They would write letters to all the constituents You know letter the letters would pour in and they would write these letters back very polite letters back And then I would take the stack of letters and put them in under the auto pen which in those days was actually literally a pen at the end of a big arm a big wooden arm I was going to say mechanically I'm kind of curious to know how that must have looked Yes it was a pen at the end of a big wooden arm And the wooden arm was connected to a little a little uh battery powered gizmo And I just had to make sure that the letters were lined up I was so bored Michael that by the middle point in the summer I started to write I'd snuck in at night I hate to admit this Can you 31:00 Can you Yeah Can you keep this to yourself please You um No I'd sneak in at night and I would write letters to my friends uh like 'Dear Mr Dwarkin congratulations on having the largest nose in New York State and Robert F Kennedy.' Well I'm sure that must have been a real treat to receive Well and that's official documentation Yes I didn't know I mean if if there's going to be an investigation of Joe Biden for doing this I mean who knows Yeah They got to get to you You're down the list I think I think I'm pretty far down Yeah Well in terms of um some of the other scapegoats and distractions I'm just going to rattle off a few Tell me on a you know whatever scale you have distraction not distraction somewhere in the middle other reactions Um so to start the administration told hospitals across the US that they are no longer required to provide emergency abortions to women whose health is in danger after they revoked Biden era guidance I mean that's that's both a distraction that's a 32:00 that's certainly a cultural populist issue but it's also a serious health issue and a very dangerous move in terms of part of the problem with the power that Trump wields even on his own when he's flailing Right The distractions themselves are still harmful That's that's right And they but we've got to understand these almost immediately are appealed to federal courts and the federal courts then have a choice as to whether they uh issue a temporary restraining order or sometimes called an injunction to stop the administration and keep the status quo while the cases are being prepared for litigation And I expect that that's what's going to happen to this and presumably similar for some of these other things Uh for example there was Hegsth Well actually I I assume maybe I mean Hegath himself is a distraction I mean he's just a Did you see I This is This is actually off of our list but there was a rumor that Tulsi Gabbard was trying to prepare Fox News style briefings for Donald Trump 33:06 which I don't know what that means I guess a fake What it means is he doesn't read Ah so the only way you can get into his brain is if you have something that looks like Fox News right Uh and he cuz he read I mean he watches Fox News he watches he watches television Um but uh and I think that's Gabard is very smart to do it that way Yeah But Hegath is making a mincemeat of the Pentagon I mean it's it's it's it's a it's it's a it's a problem Now he did what what did he do It was specifically that he ordered Harvey Milk who was a gay rights icon um where there was there was a ship that was named after him to have his name stripped from the ship and have renamed Well this is this is serious I don't want to make light of it but it is clearly a a a cultural populist move because that's what the Trump regime is doing right uh they're they're picking you know on gay rights uh LGBTQ uh they 34:08 want to go after women and after people of color And I mean to the extent that they can stir the pot Yeah Uh and be politically incorrect and get uh liberals enraged Yes That is a distraction from the big walls that Trump is now hitting And another big one Harvard who continues to be in the crosshairs of the administrations Uh Trump signed a proclamation that would suspend visas for new Harvard international students quite quickly too I think on that one it is serious because this is part of his attack on higher education across the board and Harvard is the you know is the at the top of the pinnacle most visible of higher education Um and some 47% of Harvard's students are international So if you're saying you can't get to Harvard on a student visa 35:03 you are cutting dramatically into Harvard's undergraduate population uh and you're also cutting into the flow of scientists because there the administration is making it much harder for scientists around the world to come to places like Harvard uh which have been you know that's been our our seed corn for scientific research and scientific development for years um but it is in the context we're now talking about it Michael it is a a kind of distraction a cultural distraction I And think about it For for many years the country has felt that Harvard hates America That in fact there was even a book called Harvard Hates America Wow And um before your time Before my time but you know provocative title I can see why it probably flew off the shelves in certain places Well in certain places like Dayton Ohio could be Where you from Yeah Thereabouts Thereabouts Yes Well uh 36:04 in the in the Heartland uh there is the assumption that Harvard hates America So this is a it's it's both a serious issue and I don't want to make light of it but it's also clearly a cultural crimson meat if you will for the base That's right But in all seriousness it you know Trump continues to find things like this and I think the big one that people were talking about this week was the reinstitution of something that I remember from when I was in college the travel ban And this was more countries than previous administration again I mean it seems like he has the same old tricks to try and you know Well remember the Muslim ban did not uh get through the courts Yeah Uh they struck it down Uh and so he retreated to countries that were Muslim majority countries Yes uh and it's sort of what he's doing once again But I think the big picture here is that there is no national crisis I 37:03 mean it's not as if uh the Trump administration Trump regime I prefer to call it began with a a huge problem of terrorism or a huge problem of from Muslim nations Um no He is creating the idea in people's minds that if you have immigrants uh coming from Mexico they're murderers and they're rapists If you have immigrants coming from any of these other countries they're terrorists Or if if you have uh people coming from China uh they're going to steal our secrets This is all conjured up This is all a a a scene uh that is a nightmare scene that is created by Donald Trump to justify Donald Trump doing what Donald Trump is doing uh to distract people from the real thing he's doing which is making the oligarch and himself the oligarchs and himself even wealthier uh 38:04 and centralizing ever more power uh in Donald Trump Yeah He screams invasion off to the side Meanwhile you know meanwhile with his hand out Exactly That's exact That's that's the that's what's happening Uh and I don't again I don't want to minimize the consequences of these cultural uh riffs that he goes on But we need to understand the big picture Heavy stuff But well it is heavy stuff Um and I have a I have a question for you Oh yeah Please And that is and and I don't want to I don't want to overstate our age difference but it fascinates me No it does It really does fascinate me Michael Um because again we're talking over a half century you and I Um and I don't I mean I don't People in their mid and late 20s are looking at a different future than I am I mean I'm almost at the end I hate to say it in actuarial 39:01 terms Uh you're at the start you are looking at a country that is coming apart Uh I mean literally and and figuratively I'm looking at a country I used to recognize I don't really recognize it anymore But and you're also looking at issues like climate change that are going to affect you And if you have children they're going to affect your children uh you know I look at climate change I'm concerned obviously that they will affect my children and my my grandchildren but it just feels somewhat different Yeah So I don't expect you to speak for your whole Sure generation But are you optimistic Are you pessimistic or do you I think I'm less optimistic than I I have historically been Um I think what's interesting is I find a lot of people looking backward more than forward because it's hard to know what's coming for all the reasons you just said whether it's climate change or our political system but you know you've got people reaching back for inspiration heroes You know when we talk about Bobby Kennedy right that appeals to certain 40:05 generations of folks I think about FDR sometimes I think about I do Well I mean if you think about you know the kind of rhetoric you don't really hear it coming out of I I hate to say it the modern Democratic party coming out of the M I mean you know Bernie Sanders really is not didn't start off as a Democrat He was an independent AOC doesn't unfortunately from from my standpoint represent the heart of the dem Democratic party She's a Democratic socialist which also publicly limits her in other parts of the country Right Well we Yeah we're getting ahead of ourselves in terms of chronology here that is the when the Democrats have to start thinking about their candidates and when they have to start thinking about 2026 Um but I think one of the problems today is that there are not powerful charismatic young democratic figures who are capturing the public's imagination in a way that it gives the public some indication of what they should do and what the central problem is and what the 41:04 central challenge is what your and what your generation is up against Yeah I'm I I think that uh I'm hopeful someone will emerge but I'm sure there are plenty of people who' say 'Well it's up to us my generation collectively to for those people to stand up.' Right Exactly And that also means and I know you were talking about this on a podcast the other day with another creator V from Under the Desk News that the Democrats do need to address the gerontocracy problem or at least the gerontocracy accusation And I have standing talk about this I mean I am we talked about I'm 10 days younger than Donald Trump I disagree with him on everything passionately but his energy is amazing I mean it really is amazing Guess we got to start eating more McDonald's or some or or taking whatever he's taking Well that too Um you know one story that I keep on wondering about is is whether Elon Musk is giving him 42:00 some Oh some ketamine Ketamine Can we say that Are we allowed to say that We're allowed to ask the question Okay It it just strikes me there is a gerontocracy issue There's a problem and it's particularly with the Democrats uh because a lot of the Democrats are quite old They're getting on a young generation needs to rise up and emerge in the Democratic party or where is it going to go I think it's a good question to leave our viewers with uh as we close out our program But on a lighter note Bob I have to know what are you watching You mean on television On television Well on streaming services whatever Well yet see that's the difference between us I would say television You would say streaming services Yeah I you know if you would asked me 30 years ago what am I watching on streaming services I would say what are you talking about anyway Hold on Do you have a TV I do There's a lot of people that I know that don't have televisions I actually didn't have a television for like a whole two years Well what do you You just watch it on your computer Yeah but it's a little 43:01 tiny computer There's a whole big screen little screen debate that that goes on on the internet You can read about it later Can you get can you get a big big screen computer big screen with the same resolution as you can you know all things are possible with capitalism but you know I mean amazing amazing so anyway your question what am I watching yeah what are you watching on your I'm watching um I'm watching a very interesting very very good actually Danish series Oh Uh it's you know the problem is you have to read the captions I thought you spoke Danish Um and the uh it's the title is the the legacy Mhm Uh and it's terrific Wonderful acting I don't know any of the actors U well they're Danish so that makes sense They're they're Danes They're great Danes Okay I mean really but uh no I I would recommend it highly And what are you watching Well I know you've watched a little bit of this um Andor which is the new Star Wars television show uh which has some great 44:05 great for the moment themes about standing up to authoritarianism and what drives people to do that you know in the face of overwhelming odds and fear right Legitimate fear for your for your life your position your family Um you don't have to watch any Star Wars to know what's going on But this is this is our official Well it's a galaxy far far away a long time ago A bunch of these Yes Yeah But it's not George Lucas Uh no it's downstream of George But if you if you'll allow me there's a little quote actually from a senator in the in the show the Galactic Senate And if I had heard this on the Senate floor I'd be shocked here in the US Um she says 'I believe we are in crisis The distance between what is said today and what is known to be true has become an abyss Of all the things at risk the loss of an objective reality is perhaps the most dangerous The death of truth is the ultimate victory of evil George Orwell said the same thing in 1946 So this is you know every time you 45:06 struggle with fascism Mhm or authoritarianism or a strong man uh you struggle with someone who wants to distort the truth And one of the greatest and we haven't really had a chance to talk about this but one of the greatest challenges we have particularly with the advent of artificial intelligence is how we train ourselves uh in self-government to get at the truth to know the truth to share the truth to deliberate the truth to demand the truth And I don't have an easy answer Wish I did Well maybe it's something we'll seek together We will seek it together Michael Lahannes Calderon thank you so much Such a pleasure It's my pleasure It's my pleasure And uh and all of you thank you Uh I was also do want to thank 46:02 Jordan Alport Uh Jordan is our technical support today Jordan thank you Uh and uh also Naomi Bradford who's doing the editing Um so Naomi thank you and we will see you keep the faith By the way I I I use the last couple of seconds uh of this of this program every week to just commiserate with you um because you're under a lot of stress You're under a lot of pressure Some of you uh you know you are in a mild state of depression uh if you were rational and you were humane and you were a human being you would be uh and I understand it I I am too People come up to me in my in the street and say 'How are you?' And my first impulse is to say 'Okay.' Uh and then my second impulse is to tell the truth and to say 'I'm not okay You know I I feel like shit.' And a lot of you feel that way 47:01 too But know that you're not alone Know that we will get through this and know that we all together in solidarity have a much greater chance of getting through this if we're together Thank you See you next Saturday Thank you Michael And actually I have one other thing to add Yeah For fans of the Andor show there's a phrase that I think ties in very nicely to your speech You can remind yourself you're not alone because quote 'I have friends everywhere.' It's one of their code phrases in the show I have friends everywhere Cheers Bob Cheers

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