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COMMENTARY THE COFFEE KLUTCH ... MAY 31ST 2025 with Robert Reich and Heather Lofthouse Is Musk Gone for Good? PLAY YOUTUBE VIDEO Original article: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pCvtgaBULZ4 Peter Burgess COMMENTARY Robert Reich together with Heather Lofthouse and the team involved with the Inequality Media Civic Action initiative have been doing a weekly podcast for a long time. I have watched this for a long time ... maybe as long as five years. It could be longer ... but unlikely to be shorter! Wile I 'enjoy' the weekly discussion, I am not sure that it does what is needed to change Washington politics and decision making for the better. Enough people voted for Trump in the November election in 2024 for him to be inaugurated President for the second time in January this year. For me, this is impossible to explain with any semblance of logic and rationality that I want to embrace. And what this means for the future of the United States of America does not look good. I think most Americans will be shocked quite soon at the national and internation damage that Donald Trump has done to the US economy and the country's reputation! Trump supporters may not blame Trump ... who likely will divert the blame to President Biden ... and worse will be believed by his followers! Peter Burgess
Is Musk Gone for Good? \| The Coffee Klatch with Robert Reich Muskrat Abandons Ship \| The Coffee Klatch with Robert Reich Robert Reich 1.22M subscribers ... 157,658 views ... 8.4K likes Premiered May 31, 2025 The Coffee Klatch with Robert Reich Will Trump's Big Beautiful Bill fail? Are his tariffs on thin ice? And is Elon really gone for good? Heather and I answer this week's biggest questions on today's Klatch. The Coffee Klatch with Robert Reich Transcript 0:02 and it is the Saturday coffee clutch with Heather Loft House and yours truly Robert Rich and Heather what are we going to be focusing on today let's discuss Musk leaving Trump's tariffs goodbye goodbye elon seems to be in trouble and so do so is his big beautiful bamboozle of a bill in fact this all it I mean put those three together we are really at a kind of inflection point i mean the uh people all focus on the first 100 days but really it is the first four months in effect and Trump is uh I mean Elon Musk leaving and all of these tariffs now being in held in abance by the courts uh and this big beautiful ugly horrible bill uh being really I think I I doubt it's going to get through Heather because the the Senate is sitting on Senate Republicans don't know what to do 1:01 uh so all of this blitzkrieg crazy shock and all momentum that Trump had initially seems to have stopped hopefully yes and uh but is it a turning point or is it an inflection point well it's a it's a turning point if it turns well but but will it I mean I don't I was hopeful this week watching these courts make decisions i mean of course if Musk couldn't be there over 130 days why didn't we announce that from the beginning i mean it all seems bit of a rude i mean he was on his way out after the Wisconsin Supreme Court uh disaster for the Republicans i mean that you know Musk put his money there and said he was behind the Republican candidate for the Republican for the Wisconsin Supreme Court he put his he put his you know when when somebody really stakes themselves the way Trump did and Musk it was Trump and Musk but it was really Musk's money um I think that it I think 2:03 that Musk lost a great deal of political leverage and and political uh sort of power in a way but you and I talked about this he was doomed from day one you can't be besties with a narcissist you can't be best besties with a narcissist you're talking about Trump and Musk yeah i mean well they're two narcissists they're two narcissists i mean that's what I mean and you can't and neither could be bestie but they needed each other and they still do need each other uh Trump really does want to be uh in the corner with the richest person in the entire world and Trump wants the money he wants to be able to use the possibility of Musk's money uh to scare Republicans you know the if if you don't play the game if you're in the Congress and you don't do what I want I have Elon's money behind me and we can 3:00 finance a an opponent a primary opponent for you so he wants that uh he also likes the fact that there are 20 220 million followers of Elon Musk and Elon Musk can give Trump an even larger megaphone and he likes the fact that he's ping around with the richest person in the world let's face it uh and obviously Musk loves power and he loves being on the inside and uh he didn't want to leave i mean it's pretty clear that he Oh I don't think so either and that press conference yesterday he kept on talking about well he's you know he's this is just the beginning of well they're friends and advisers and I'm a friend and an adviser and I've left all my people behind me all inside and and I have access he didn't say I have access to all this data but he did and he does but it felt like you know a a fake divorce you know where we're going to remain such good friends and everything's wonderful and we're we're closer than ever and we're going to build even bigger lives separately but 4:01 also together a little bit too but also separately it was was warmhearted a kind of separation but a um we'll see i don't think it's destined for greatness um I mean neither of these people has a great deal capacity for friendship for empathy for all of the qualities that you would expect a relationship to be built on uh no it they're both transactional uh at their core and they are both uh selfish narcissist uh difficult people i mean they're jerks can I say that publicly well you did well I think they are but what's so interesting is watching that I mean the irony wasn't lost on me when at one point Elon at this press conference at the White House yesterday looks around the room and he says this you have made this Oval Office majestic Mr president Majestic and you Majesty your majesty and the gold and they talk about the 24 karat gold on the ceiling as they are talking about waste fraud and abuse I it 5:05 is it is extraordinary it's it's almost cartoonish and well it's it's sort of disgusting also did you notice that when Elon is talking about the government people the government contractors and all the he carefully avoided uh saying that the defense department is completely dependent on Elon Musk's Starlink and also his starship and all of the things that he's doing and his entire you know Elon has created an entire city uh in Texas uh that the defense department promotes and and and subsidizes uh no there was none of that no it's all you know bean counters bureaucrats you know they paint this picture of inefficiency in a corner with paper and adding machines well bureaucrats have been the you know to be they've been the the the scapegoats for presidents for public and the backbone by the way well I've worked with them i've worked with I've worked with hundreds if not thousands of public 6:06 servants people who could have done much better financially uh in the private sector uh in terms of their education levels but you know they they came to the government because they wanted to make a difference and for them to be demeaned uh and and and kind of uh talked down to and and talked as if they they accomplished nothing and they are they are purposeless uh by the richest man in the world and the and the president of the United States who doesn't even understand the constitution I I it was kind of disgusting frankly they are both both of these individuals we'll go down in history I predict if history is recording accurately uh as people who were uh traders traitors to America traders to the ideal of America for sure 7:00 And just watching even how they interacted with the press wasn't that it's just it's gone it's so far gone well it's not gone i mean I I think that the ideals are still there we still remember how these institutions should work uh but to see Elon Musk and Donald Trump together once again celebrating themselves which is what they do and each other it was a it was a an exercise in uh in just narcissistic excess and that one quote that Russell Vote said months ago but it was found out by ProPublica where he talked about wanting to cause trauma to federal employees and Russell Vote remember is was the OM Office of Management Budget Director in the first Trump administration and is now uh there in the second Trump administration is rumored to be taking over all of the Doge responsibilities that Elon Musk has 8:01 left also project 2025 and he was the author of project 2025 russell vote is uh an anti-democracy leader that is he really wants America apparently i mean I haven't talked to him but he apparently wants America to be a dictatorship everything he has done everything he wants i he is in charge of the nivist nationalistic sort of xenophobic craze in the White House he is running the anti-immigrant group um and with Steven Miller right and the two of them together Russell Vote and Steven Miller uh are to me now that Elon Musk is leaving the next the next centers of power and they may not be as overt as Musk and on X as much but it is worrisome that they're going to step up to the plate even more than they have right yes it's worrisome because they are inside players they know how the 9:03 system works uh and they hold in contempt the system i mean government employees the courts uh I mean Stephen Miller uh when this week when the trade court the United States trade court the three judges on that trade court two of them Republicans one of them appointed by Trump himself those three decided I think justifiably that the tariff authority should not be exercised by Trump he'd exceeded his authority you know the that the Constitution of the United States that Trump doesn't even know about uh has in it article one which is Congress's authority section 8 of article one says Congress shall be in charge of all of commerce it's commerce but it but it's international commerce commerce with foreign nations uh and Trump has relied in terms of giving him authority 10:05 to basically avoid article 1 section 8 uh he has taken authority from a late 1970s statute from Congress that gave gives him emergency authority in emergency situations and he's saying well it's an emergency fentanol coming across our borders immigrants coming across our borders it's all an emergency and also the trade gap uh you know we we have a trade gap that's an emergency and therefore I individually arbitrarily whenever I want to can do all of this tariff havoc which is what he has done the trade court the United States trade court said no you've exceeded your authority and what does Miller say Miller demonizes them uh on social media he says they are treasonous they are and then he he shows They're pictures of the three judges no he do this is but this is this is what worries me uh these 11:04 people have no understanding and no respect for the constitution about the judiciary uh the the the press the the the ways in which this country balances the authority of the president he also used the word coup he also Yes he said a judicial coup that's what that what Steven Miller said a judicial coup of all people to talk about coups you know this is an administration that Trump actually engineered an attempted coup everybody knows he still denies uh never been held accountable uh this is the danger so there are ups and downs okay so we it was this US trade court i don't think a lot of us were tracking it before this week no but you know it's interesting this goes back to a theme okay let's do That is and that is Trump is bringing us back to first principles he is uh educating America about what our system really is how many people knew that there was a trade court how many people knew uh or thought about due 12:06 process or habius corpus or the rule of law i mean we are now educating an entire public and a new and a young generation in what this government requires what are the building blocks of this government that's your silver lining and that's my silver lining that's one of my silver linings indeed but so I think it's educating new people are entering this cadre of learners right but we need to have it go even further i think part of the challenge is sparking this and making sure that people use this as a learning moment well I I think that that's what we're trying to do and I hope other people are trying to do it uh but on on the trade issue again most people in this country uh just didn't pay attention to trade very much and uh and and what Trump is doing in terms of arbitrarily one person deciding that suddenly we're going to put a big big tariff on all the goods coming into the 13:06 United States from everywhere uh which is a tax that consumers pay and consumers are beginning to catch on and as soon as they catch on and the market responds then Trump pulls back and there is this kind of sense that he is not really going to go through with it if I were the Europe right now and I were negotiating with Trump even though there is a court a federal court above the trade court that said we're going to pause this for a while what would I negotiate why would I even negotiate why would any country negotiate with Trump when it may be that he doesn't have this authority at all so more will be revealed we've got to see we're kind of in between right the ups and downs here but it's also negotiating with an arbitrary authority u you know I'm old enough to remember uh NAFTA uh and the North America Free Trade Trade Act the 14:00 North America Free Trade Act and the Chinese accession to the World Trade Organization now in retrospect I think these were big mistakes and at the time inside the administration I was sounding sounding the alarm uh but um most people assumed that uh this is not something a president can do on his own right i mean he needs Congress but Trump has now basically said I am the king i am the monarch i'm in charge of everything and the people wanted me to do this he keeps going back to that this is my mandate and there's no mandate he didn't even get a a majority of the vote he got a plurality of the vote and by a a hair but but by a hair's width yeah the one other thing it's amazing to see how many exclamation points that Judge Leon who is again conservative as these things go or at least appointed by you know Republicans these judges are not happy and it is scary to watch them being you 15:04 know caught in the crosshairs well if you actually think about it Heather if you talk about the Doge uh and how Doge has been stopped in its tracks it's been the federal courts uh what about as we just said we were talking about the tariffs stopped by the courts uh the immigrants and and the uh basically taking people off the street and sending them to who knows where i mean to El Salvador to prisons stopped by the courts um and uh everywhere you look law firms and what Trump has wanted to do with law firms stopped by the courts the judges uh who are there district court judges and court of appeals judges they are getting enormous amounts of hate mail they are getting death threats uh they are meeting together and trying to summon some 16:03 protection from the federal the magistrates uh I don't want to be alarmists and here on our little program I have tried to be optimistic and I am optimistic over the long term but when you have judges who are pushing back as they should be pushing back and almost every one of these cases Trump is losing or has lost but those judges are being threatened and you have Steven Miller and other top people who are who are inviting the public to threaten these judges and Trump himself who says uh you know uh the United States having judges who uh who suffer from an ideology that is sick and he does it with capital letters and he's talking about judges some of whom he appointed many of whom are Republican appointees uh this is dangerous it's dangerous but he also I think when he feels weak and is shown to be weak i don't know if he ever actually feels weak but if he senses there's weakness 17:05 in his peripheral vision for example when they pushed him that reporter pushed him this week about Taco which is Trump always chickens out he was livid so he is in a place right now he is not happy that people aren't saluting him well he's most dangerous and we know this from the first term when he's cornered uh and when he feels like things are not going well and people are are are resisting him and with the courts being the major source of resistance but even this week we see a Republican Congress particularly the Senate uh putting up some resistance to his big beautiful ugly horrible bill uh which incidentally we talked about the largest if it's ever passed uh the largest redistribution of income in American history from the poor and working class to the rich and ultra rich reverse Robin Hood and uh but the but 18:02 the Senate is is is a little bit angry a little bit uncertain a lot of those senators are up for reelection in 2026 so you have Tom Tillis of North Carolina Susan Collins of Maine they are sounding u very negative about this they want major changes this is not going to go through as Trump wanted it it's not going to go through as the House wanted it in fact it may not go through at all it may be July or even August until something gels but remember even if the Senate approves it it's got to be again voted on by the House and the first time the House had a tiny one person majority for this bill it's almost impossible good but I don't want to see what's in the bill that does pass i mean how much will be carved out there's so much that's been shoved into this bill too by the way well there's there's basic illogic in the bill i mean think of a triangle with three points one point is 19:01 well a big tax cut that's what Trump wants that's going to take money and that's going to take money another point is where does the money come from well the biggest source right now is Medicaid uh 700 billion dollars out of Medicaid uh the other point is the debt uh a lot of Republicans don't want to increase the debt logically out of these you can't you can have two of the three but you cannot have all three and that's what the Republicans are going through that's what they went through in the house that's why it was so hard for them to get anything out of the house uh and that's what the Senate but particularly with all these Senate Republicans up for reelection they could not square the circle or triangle did you see that um Representative Mike Flood there was a viral clip this week where he basically was called out at a town hall talking about what was in the bill and he said 'Honestly I didn't know that that was in the bill i didn't know.' Yes the contempt right the contempt issue and that's a big one because because what the Republicans want to do uh is take away the power of the courts to hold the 20:04 administration in contempt for disregarding their rulings uh and going back to what we were talking about Steven Miller and Russell vote they are pushing along with JD Vance they are pushing for a declaration from Trump that he is not bound by the courts if the courts do something that infringes on his power now obviously defined but the courts are the ones that determine what his power is right uh and so in a constitutional system in a system of checks and balances when when you have a White House that is saying awful things about these judges and stirring up public resentment and even contemplating the possibility of outright uh defying the courts we're in a different world we are no longer in a world called democracy okay next so the the you have talked 21:02 about that the economy is contracting and we've had some numbers but we've just had a definite number come out from the federal government that it's contracted in the first quarter.2% yeah the Bureau of Economic Analysis in the Commerce Department and you can still trust these numbers I believe uh I mean another legacy of Elon Musk is he got into all the data sources and a lot of people are worried about him using all that data for his own purposes uh and it's a lot of personal data and a lot of people are worried that he's going to change the data if it's not favorable to Trump delete it uh but at least the Bureau of Economic Analysis so far in the Commerce Department uh has assuming I'm assuming being assuming they're being honest uh the economy shrunk uh by 210 of 1% in the first quarter that may not sound like much but in the quarter the last quarter of the last year it grew uh 2.4% that's it and 22:05 so the shrinkage is actually significant and you know and Trump talks about it often oh wait that doesn't come up it doesn't come up in the White House events i mean yeah and if you get two quarters I mean it's going to be a big deal the second quarter is going to be very important if you get two quarters in a row where the economy shrinkage that's the standard economic definition of a recession and nobody wants to talk about the recession word but we also if those if those tariffs go into effect and remember the 10% tariffs are still in effect on everybody and the auto tariffs are still in effect because they did not depend on Trump's reading of this this emergency tariff authority right um so they're going to be there is going to be inflationary pressure there's already inflationary pressure put that inflationary pressure Heather together with this uh contraction and what do you 23:04 have you have dada stagflation uh which is the nightmare everybody's nightmare i know well we'll have to see what happens but he's so It's fascinating to watch him be stymied i mean for me this week I feel like I actually had a little Oo look at this in the news i did too wow and I I I really some days this week I woke up and this morning was a good a good example i thought by golly he is being cornered he's stymied uh it's not that we're turning a corner it's not that the tide is necessarily turning uh but we are seeing the system push back right and his polls are terrible i mean his approval ratings are in the teens and tanking yeah and and and along with Elon's I mean Elon Musk uh is even worse than than and the Yuggov poll said more than 50% of Americans think that the 24:05 Qataris are bribing Trump through the plane they disapprove of his working in crypto and benefiting from crypto as he's in charge of regulating crypto so people are paying attention so reading the polls is another thing that makes me feel Yeah it's interesting a lot of what Trump has done uh in terms of attacking the civil service and attacking uh the you know the press and I mean the average working person in this country shrugs the shoulders well it's too bad I mean that's Donald Trump but when it comes to economics when it comes to the price of groceries or it comes to uh a foreign government bribing him uh you know with with a with a $400 million airplane or and we're going to a crypto conference and and and going to a crypto dinner with him just because they are financing him personally the average American says 'Wait a minute wait a 25:03 minute wait a minute i'm doing worse uh I'm paying more and this fellow you know who I elected president is pocketing a huge amount of money and these foreigners are not you know are giving him so much money their foreign governments not for nothing they want something they think they're going to get something what are they getting that what are they taking from me people are beginning to ask those questions heather that's it and we know that people are so influenced by their own economic experience i mean really how they're feeling and so for them to be an us to be able to connect with what is actually happening at the federal level and feeling it I mean I think that is an improvement i mean it's an opportunity for education and we said that earlier but I it is it's it is undoubted so important undoubtedly and and it started I mean let's take Elon for example his downfall starts when Doge begins to 26:00 attack social security uh you know they the the they find uh waste fraud and abuse it's not waste fraud abuse it's social security offices that are actually providing services to social security recipients uh there are a lot of them because there need to be and there are a lot of social security recipients uh but when Doge goes in and starts taking those people away firing those social security workers uh a lot of people and I can tell you because I'm one of the social security recipients you know you can't reach the Social Security offices people begin to see there is a connection between this abstract called government and their daily lives yeah uh it's true of vet veterans too a veterans administration when Elon Musk and his Doge start attacking that a lot of veterans felt it right felt it they felt the reverberations uh and it's true now when prices are starting to go up because of everything Trump is doing because of the tariffs people feel it they feel it but 27:05 also then all of the you know health care support and for veterans in particular the mental health support all this other stuff is being cut at the same time so I think people are feeling it and Medicaid now again go back to my triangle they haven't actually attacked Medicaid directly but in the budget oh yeah it's there i mean a 700 million billion dollar cut in Medicaid to finance this big tax cut mostly for the very wealthy all over America living rooms kitchens all over America people are saying this is not right i've mentioned this before but I follow Bolts magazine BTS Nuts and Bolts and they I really like so they have a new um guide which is what elections are happening in June and there are 40 that are happening so we know the high-profile ones like mayor of New York we know statewide ones like 28:02 governor of New Jersey but there are 40 other ones and these are this this June this June yes and it's across all these different states and we're talking school boards and we're talking zoning implications junior's next week that's what I'm saying yeah next month yeah you get We're here i mean we're here we start now's the time we start tomorrow yeah we start tomorrow today tomorrow um Yeah but it's it's so We have to remember that democracy is bottom up and even when Trump won this past November there was a lot of stuff on ballots that we were pleased to see right certain people who were moved out certain people who we thought would win who didn't um and this is these next this next month and then going forward we have to remember all of these different elections well this is also part of the learning that is going on under the Trump administration because people are now saying exactly what you said we've got to look down ballot we've got to be aware of our local and state yeah so 29:02 much all of these people are now even more important because we can't rely as much as we could on the federal government and our state is even more critical in our lives and our locality uh and so yes we have to vote as if our lives and our families depend on it i know how about all those pardons this week we didn't even talk about those well I think that that is part of the Trump campaign uh to intimidate and to also reward the people who should not be rewarded uh and just flashes of power he loves to be like 'Poof look what I did i renamed that gulf and I just freed those people.' Yeah but it's more than that i think it's it's more insidious than that in the Justice Department uh there is somebody who is both a pardon the chief pardon attorney and also in informally in charge of going after Trump's enemies mhm and that person is the same person his name is Ed Martin uh he's in charge 30:02 of both deciding who gets the pardon at least recommendations to Trump and he's also in charge of the uh Justice Department's weaponization working group so So he is he is both with one hand he's uh exonerating people he's letting them out some of them you know some of them pretty awful characters with the other hand he's going after using the Justice Department to after people Trump doesn't like uh you know punishments and rewards that's what Trump knows and that's what he's been all about and that's what this fellow Ed Martin buried in the Justice Department is doing and it's the I mean you you're right it's evil but it's also a power play and also the hypocrisy is so clear i mean he's letting people go who are in charge of you know drug kingpins basically at the same time that we're complaining about fentinel coming from Canada and you know and at the same time he's alleging uh that these people 31:02 and these people uh are are have been bringing drugs into this country are drug kingpins uh and sending them off to other you know to prisons elsewhere uh with no due process with no finding uh I mean it's it's it's wild when the history of justice under Trump is written And uh it's going to be amazing it's going to be unbelievable people are going to say 'Really did that happen were you there heather were you there?' I will try to remember back um I can put on one of our coffee clutches and return but I'm so thirsty for a good Dem leader to come to just I'm trying to future trip right and think about who is going to be I mean you hear the Dems say 'Oh we need the next Joe Rogan on the left.' That's not what we need that's the wrong order we need someone who's authentic who could perhaps be the Joe Rogan on the left but may not be i mean we need 32:00 And you've profiled so many people and people you know these leaders like Gandhi and Martin Luther King Jr they're gone we can't I know they're gone but they're the Democratic party no but there've got to be new ones Bob people who you know they don't they're not reactive leaders they just are who they are and it's natural to them and they bring people up well there there there people I mean we we don't have time to get into the next generation of Democrats now but I know many uh young Democrats people in their 30s and 40s um and some of them early 50s who have the right values yes uh who uh espouse and feel uh very much connected to where average Americans are uh and also are thinking in terms of what I call progressive populism that is we've got to get big money out of politics we've got to attack big corporations that uh are so big that they are dominating 33:02 their markets with antitrust yeah we've got to give workers more power through labor unions and through uh things such as profit sharing uh there are many lifting the minimum wage many things that can be done uh the you know universal basic income for example uh it's not that we lack the ideas it's like we lack leadership but there are young people who believe these things you promise me there's someone coming absolutely well I mean I don't know whether she could get elected president uh but OAC AOC AOC did I say OAC aoc uh is a good example i I think she has the the energy the vision um she is a protege of one of my favorite people Bernie Sanders and um it it's that kind of she's so real people love it it's authenticity um I think power comes from authenticity and from a belief in ideals and I've seen it time 34:04 and again Heather I mean I you know friends I have had like the late Paul Wellstone who nobody said you have you have no you can't get into politics he was a young man uh he was uh he was a school teacher you can't get into politics it's it's crazy you'll you'll never you know you're too idealistic uh but he did and he was a progressive populist uh and he made enormous change enormous change um and I saw it okay so now I get to do a shameless plug dun dun so your book is I can do this you can't do this i don't want to do that well so this is your book but it's the publication date is moved up to August 5th so I'm warning people you can get it sooner in your mailbox um but in this book you do go through so much around leadership and whom you've looked at as leaders who who um and I'm I've read 35:01 half of it because I got an advanced copy but I'm excited so thank you for being inspiring through this book well I'll give you a quiz i'm a professor and u you read the first half so nervous i mean I've read like the first like I won't do that like like half like quarter well here here's the thing i think people do need to be inspired i'm not sure I will inspire them but I think people do need to be inspired uh people have lived through the horrors of the first Trump administration and now the first four almost four months of the second Trump administration uh and many people I know Heather and many of you are just understandably uh depressed and and and just you don't want to talk about it anymore you you you don't want to think about it uh and I understand that and people really have got to their wits end but we also have to have to understand three things one is that tyranny can only succeed when people 36:06 agree to it when they submit to it um and so we cannot submit uh and the second is that uh a tyrant's weapon the major weapon is cynicism making us all feel so depressed and cynical that nothing can change and we can't ever ever fall into that and the third thing that we need all of us uh is inspiration we need to know that there is a possibility a very very strong possibility uh of a much better America and a much better world uh and that's true uh and I tell my students that in fact I I was I was talking to my students just this week um and they're public policy students and some of them are mid-career and you can imagine how how how how down they are i mean when everything they've been working for but 37:04 I told them sincerely that this is a wonderful time to be preparing for their careers in public policy because so much needs to be done and it's stark it's so stark and if everything were already and if everything were in a good shape why why even why even bother you know uh the poet Mary Oliver uh in one of her wonderful poems uh asked the question 'What are you going to do with your one brilliant wild life?' And I think that's something even somebody as old as I have to keep asking yes so thank you Heather for asking us that and sharing your thoughts on that with us well thank you again and again every week thank you Heather for being so terrific and so on top of everything and Michael Lahanas Calder on 38:04 thank you and we're going to see you yes we're dragging him back get ready we're dragging When are you being dragged back maybe next week we'll see okay we'll see get your coffee ready and for all of you uh please take care of yourself be safe and hug the people you love

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