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TRUMP'S SIGNALGATE DAMAGE CONTROL FAIL ABC News: Atlantic editor-in-chief calls Trump administration's response to Signal debacle 'strange behavior' Original article: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WnwzgEbCOoI Peter Burgess COMMENTARY I watch .... with the Atlantic on PBS every Friday evening. It is a routine and always interesting. It is hosted by Jeffrey Goldberg from The Atlantic and pulls together a week on 'news' in an interesting but not sentational way! It has been interesting to find Jeffrey Goldberg the subject of news stories rather than merely observing them! Mot to mentiong Jeffrey Goldberg and the Atlantic being targeted in very demeaning ways by both Trump himself and his acolytes! Bottom line, hhowever, is that Signalgate is a serious matter and the Trump administration will have to solve the problem or suffer the consequences ... which will be serious! Peter Burgess
Atlantic editor-in-chief calls Trump administration's response to Signal debacle 'strange behavior' ABC News Mar 26, 2025 18.4M subscribers ... 257,704 views ... 5.1K likes #goldberg #signal #abcnews The Atlantic Editor-in-Chief Jeffrey Goldberg reacts to the pushback from Trump administration officials and declined to comment on his relationship with National Security Adviser Mike Waltz. Read more: https://abcnews.go.com/US/18s-launch-... Subscribe to ABC News on YouTube: https://abcnews.visitlink.me/59aJ1G ABC News is your daily source of breaking national and world news, exclusive interviews and 24/7 live streaming coverage. Download the ABC News app for the latest headlines and alerts: https://abcnews.go.com/devices Watch 24/7 coverage of breaking news and live events on ABC News Live: • LIVE: Latest News Headlines and Event... Watch full episodes of World News Tonight with David Muir here: • ABC World News Tonight with David Mui... Read ABC News reports online: http://abcnews.go.com ABC News is the home to the #1 evening newscast “World News Tonight with David Muir,' “Good Morning America,” “20/20,” “Nightline,” “This Week” with George Stephanopoulos, “ABC News Live Prime” with Linsey Davis, plus the daily news podcast “Start Here.” Connect with ABC News on social media: WhatsApp: https://whatsapp.com/channel/0029VajT... Facebook: / abcnews Instagram: / abcnews TikTok: / abcnews X: / abc Threads: https://www.threads.net/@abcnews LinkedIn: / abcnews #signal #atlantic #goldberg #news #abcnews Transcript 0:02 JEFFREY GOLDBERG. GOOD AFTERNOON, EVERYONE. I'M KYRA PHILLIPS GOLDBERG NOW RELEASING ALL HIS TEXTS, GIVING US EVEN MORE DETAILS AFTER HE WAS ADDED TO THAT GROUP CHAT WITH OUR NATION'S TOP SECURITY OFFICIALS. THE TRUMP ADMINISTRATION ON A FULL SCALE PUSH BACK THE PRESIDENT HIS DEFENSE SECRETARY IS NATIONAL SECURITY ADVISER AND PRESS SECRETARY, ALL DOUBLING DOWN, SAYING THAT NOTHING ABOUT THIS MILITARY ATTACK PLAN IN YEMEN WAS COMPROMISED. INSTEAD, ATTACKING GOLDBERG HIMSELF. >> ALL RIGHT. WE WILL. AND GET THAT SOUND BACK IN, JEFFREY. SO YOU CAN HEAR ALL OF THAT. IT WAS ACTUALLY A STRING OF COMMENTS FROM THE PRESIDENT CRITICIZING YOU ON DOWN. ALREADY HEARD IT. IF WE CAN GET THAT SOUND BACK UP, I'LL PLAY IT. SO YOU COULD TO IT. BUT LET'S GET STRAIGHT TO YOU, ATLANTIC EDITOR IN CHIEF JEFFREY GOLDBERG JOINING ME 1:00 NOW. JEFF THANK YOU. WE JUST HEARD FROM SECDEF PETE HEGSETH FROM THE TARMAC IN HAWAII. I WANT TO PLAY THAT AND GET YOUR REACTION. >> NOBODY'S TEXTING PLANS. WELL, I NOTICED THIS MORNING. HOW CAME THAT? DOESN'T LOOK LIKE WAR PLANS AND. AS A MATTER OF FACT, EVEN CHANGE THE TITLE TO ATTACK PLANS BECAUSE THEY KNOW IT'S NOT WAR PLANS. THERE'S NO UNITS NO LOCATIONS, NO ROUTES, NO FLIGHT PATHS, NO SOURCES, NO METHODS, NO CLASSIFIED INFORMATION. ALL RIGHT, JEFF, YOUR REACTION? HE SAID THERE WAS NOTHING THAT CLASSIFIED IN THAT GROUP CHAT. >> WHAT DO YOU SAY PETE HEGSETH PUT IN THE GROUP CHAT? NOT UNDERSTANDING THAT A CIVILIAN, NAMELY ME, WAS IN THE GROUP CHAT PUT IN THE GROUP CHAT THAT THE ATTACK WAS ABOUT TO BE LAUNCHED TOLD EVERYBODY EXACTLY WHAT TIME 2:00 THE PLANES WERE LEAVING. WHAT TIME WAS THE PLANES WERE ARRIVING, AND WHO THESE STRONGHOLDS OVER YEMEN, OBVIOUSLY, INFORMATION LIKE THAT COULD PUT AMERICAN PILOTS IN DANGER. I YOU KNOW THEY HAVE DECIDED OBVIOUSLY, INSTEAD OF SIMPLY SAYING, YEAH, WE HAD A SECURITY BREACH AND WE'RE GOING TO TRY TO PLUG THAT BREACH AND DO BETTER NEXT TIME THEY'VE DECIDED TO BLAME THE GUY WHO THEY INVITED INTO THE CONVERSATION. >> IT'S A IT'S A LITTLE BIT STRANGE BEHAVIOR. I DON'T KNOW WHY THEY'RE ACTING LIKE THIS EXCEPT TO THAT THEY'RE THEY KNOW HOW SERIOUS A NATIONAL SECURITY IT IS. AND SO THEY HAVE TO DEFLECT IT AND PUSH IT ON TO THE GUY. AGAIN, THEY INVITED INTO THE CHAT, NAMELY ME. >> MIKE WALL SAYS HE'S MET YOU, HE DOESN'T KNOW YOU. HE'S NEVER COMMUNICATED YOU. >> IS ALL OF THAT TRUE? I'M JUST NOT GOING TO COMMENT ON MY RELATIONSHIP WITH, 3:01 MIKE WALLACE. >> I'M JUST NOT GOING TO COMMENT ON THAT. OKAY. ALL RIGHT. 3:04 I'M I'M JUST GOING TO PUSH 3:05 YOU A LITTLE BIT BECAUSE I'M A 3:05 JOURNALIST, TOO. 3:06 JUST LIKE YOU. 3:08 I GET I KNOW IT'S POSSIBLE 3:11 HE COULD. 3:12 LET ME LET ME PUT IT THIS WAY. 3:15 IS A SCENARIO IN WHICH HE COULD 3:16 HAVE BEEN A SOURCE FOR YOU IN 3:19 THE PAST. 3:19 >> OH, I'M NOT. 3:20 I'M CERTAINLY GOING TO. 3:23 AND YOU WOULDN'T EITHER. 3:24 I'M CERTAINLY NOT GOING TO TALK 3:24 ABOUT WHO MY SOURCES ARE OR 3:27 ARE NOT. 3:27 I JUST DON'T THINK THAT'S 3:28 A USEFUL CONVERSATION FOR 3:31 A JOURNALIST TO GO. 3:31 LOOK, I MEAN, IT'S PUBLIC 3:32 KNOWLEDGE. 3:32 THERE'S PHOTOGRAPHS OF US 3:35 TOGETHER AT AN EVENT NOW 3:36 THAT THAT'S THAT'S JUST OUT 3:39 THERE ON SOCIAL MEDIA. 3:39 YOU KNOW AND I'VE SAID IN 3:42 THE PAST YOU KNOW I'VE I'VE MET 3:43 HIM ON A NUMBER OF OCCASIONS 3:46 BUT I'M JUST NOT GOING TO 3:47 GO INTO MY RELATIONSHIP OR 3:49 NON RELATIONSHIP WITH MIKE 3:50 WALLACE. 3:50 HE CAN OBVIOUSLY HE'S TO SAY 3:53 WHATEVER HE WANTS. 3:57 I, I SUPPOSE THAT HE, YOU KNOW, 3:58 IS FEELING SOMEWHAT DESPERATE 4:01 AND CORNERED RIGHT NOW BECAUSE HE'S THE ONE WHO INVITED ME INTO THE INTO THE CHAT. BUT I JUST GOING TO LEAVE IT AT THAT. 4:08 I'M JUST NOT COMFORTABLE 4:09 GOING DOWN THAT ROAD. 4:11 >> OKAY. 4:11 I CAN I CAN ATTEMPT TO READ 4:14 BETWEEN THE LINES HERE. 4:15 >> I'M NOT PUTTING WORDS 4:15 IN YOUR MOUTH, BUT I DON'T 4:18 I DON'T EVEN KNOW IF I MADE ANY 4:19 LINES, BUT SURE, GO AHEAD. 4:19 >> ALL RIGHT. 4:22 HE. 4:22 BUT YOU YOU AGREE HE HAD 4:23 YOUR PHONE NUMBER? 4:26 WELL, OBVIOUSLY, HE HAD 4:27 MY PHONE NUMBER. 4:27 INVITED ME INTO THE CHAT. 4:30 >> OKAY. 4:30 YEAH, JUST TO JUST TO EXPLAIN 4:31 THIS, BECAUSE I KNOW 4:33 THIS IS ALL KINDS OF, LIKE, 4:34 FANCY THEORIES NOW ABOUT HOW 4:34 I SOMEHOW OR SOMEONE PUT 4:37 MY PHONE NUMBER IN A SECRETLY 4:40 THROUGH SOME BACKDOOR DEVICE 4:41 INTO HIS PHONE. 4:44 WHAT HAPPENED WAS, ON MARCH 4:44 11TH, I RECEIVED A MESSAGE 4:45 REQUEST FROM MICHAEL WALTZ, 4:48 AND THEN I ACCEPTED THE REQUEST 4:51 . 4:52 THAT'S HOW IT WORKS AND SAID, 4:52 NO, YOU KNOW, YOU'RE SOMEBODY 4:54 WHO'S IN YOUR PHONE BOOK. 4:55 IF YOU WANT TO MOVE 4:55 THE CONVERSATION TO SIGNAL, NO, 4:56 YOU SIMPLY SAY, HEY, CAN 4:59 YOU MEET ME? 4:59 I'M ESSENTIALLY CAN YOU MEET ME 5:00 AND SIGNAL AND THEY CAN SAY YES 5:03 OR NO? 5:03 I SAID YES BECAUSE I THOUGHT 5:04 MICHAEL WALTZ WANTED TO CHAT 5:04 ABOUT SOMETHING AND SIGNAL, 5:06 OBVIOUSLY. 5:07 I MEAN, I WAS HOPING THAT IT 5:07 WAS HIM, YOU KNOW, ALWAYS AWARE 5:11 AS YOU ARE ANY JOURNALIST 5:11 IS THAT SOMEBODY IS TRYING 5:14 TO TRICK YOU OR HOAX YOU OR 5:15 WHATEVER. 5:15 BUT I WAS HOPING THAT IT WAS 5:16 ACTUALLY MICHAEL WALTZ. 5:18 I DIDN'T THINK THAT MUCH OF IT, 5:18 HONESTLY. 5:18 BUT THAT'S THAT'S THAT'S 5:21 THE SUM TOTAL OF WHAT HAPPENED. 5:22 >> HE, HE, HE SENT ME A MESSAGE 5:26 BASED ON THE FACT THAT HIS 5:26 MY PHONE NUMBER WAS IN HIS 5:27 PHONE. 5:29 SO. 5:29 AND YES, I MEAN, WE'VE ALL USED 5:30 SIGNAL. 5:32 IT'S ALSO GREAT TO TALK 5:33 WITH SOURCES AND GET 5:33 INFORMATION AND YOU EVER 5:36 HAVE YOU EVER TALKED WITH SO 5:37 ANYONE IN GROUP CHAT HAD 5:40 YOU EVER BEEN ON SIGNAL BEFORE 5:41 WITH ANYONE ELSE WITHIN 5:45 THIS GROUP CHAT YOU KNOW EVEN 5:47 YOU SUBPOENAED ME TO ANSWER 5:48 THAT QUESTION. 5:48 I'D HAVE A DIFFICULT TIME, 5:52 THAT QUESTION. 5:52 I'M NOT GOING TO TALK 5:52 ABOUT LIKE LIKE ANY JOURNALIST 5:55 I'M NOT GOING TO TALK ABOUT WHO 5:55 I TALK TO, HOW I TALKED TO THEM 5:56 WHEN. 5:59 I TALKED TO THEM. 5:59 IT JUST DOESN'T SEEM LIKE 6:00 A FRUITFUL, FRUITFUL THING TO HAVE FOR A JOURNALIST TO DO. >> I GOTCHA. >> ANY MESSAGES THAT YOU HAVE NOT RELEASED? 6:10 >> WELL, WE DID REDACT. 6:10 WE DID. 6:11 WE DID HOLD BACK A MESSAGE 6:13 THE CIA ASKED US TO NOT PUBLISH 6:18 A CERTAIN MESSAGE. 6:18 YOU KNOW, YESTERDAY WE, ASKED 6:22 ALL THESE AGENCIES, YOU KNOW, 6:23 IS THERE ANYTHING EVEN THOUGH 6:25 PRESIDENT SAYS THERE'S NOTHING 6:26 IN HERE, IS THERE ANYTHING 6:27 YOU GUYS THINK YOU KNOW 6:29 ON WITHOUT US EVEN 6:30 UNDERSTANDING WHY ENDANGER 6:30 SOMEONE OR SOMETHING? 6:34 CIA DID ASK US TO HOLD 6:37 BACK SOMETHING. 6:37 AND SO WE DID, BECAUSE WE TAKE 6:41 THAT WE TAKE THAT SERIOUSLY. 6:41 >> ALL RIGHT. 6:42 WELL, LET ME ASK YOU THAT, 6:42 BECAUSE DIRECTOR OF THE CIA 6:45 SAID TODAY THAT THAT PERSON 6:46 IS HIS CHIEF STAFF AND NOT AN 6:49 UNDERCOVER AGENT. 6:49 WHAT'S THE STORY. 6:53 >> HE SAID THAT HIS OFFICE 6:56 ASKED US NOT TO PUBLISH THAT. 7:00 I MEAN, I WISH THAT THEY CAN GET THEIR STORY STRAIGHT OVER THERE. >> I REALLY DO. 7:04 THE DIRECTOR OF CIA SAYS 7:04 THERE'S NO ISSUE THERE. 7:05 LATER REALLY? 7:08 OFFICIALS IN THE CIA ASKED NOT 7:12 TO PUBLISH A PIECE 7:12 OF INFORMATION. 7:15 SO, YOU KNOW, HE REALLY 7:16 PROBABLY SHOULD TALK TO THE 7:19 PEOPLE, WORK FOR HIM 7:19 TO UNDERSTAND WHAT THEY'RE 7:20 ASKING OF US. 7:20 >> LET ME ASK YOU, DID ANYONE 7:24 FROM THE WHITE HOUSE REACH OUT 7:24 TO YOU BEFORE OR AFTER BOTH 7:27 SCENARIOS, BEFORE OR AFTER 7:28 THE STORY BROKE? 7:30 YOU KNOW, I HAVE 7:31 HAD CONVERSATIONS WITH WITH 7:34 FOLKS ACROSS 7:35 THE ADMINISTRATION, BUT I'M 7:38 GOING TO DETAIL THOSE BECAUSE 7:39 THOSE WERE NOT ON THE RECORD 7:39 CONVERSATIONS. 7:41 GOT IT. 7:42 DID YOU FEEL THREATENED IN ANY 7:42 WAY? 7:45 THREATENED? 7:45 YES. 7:46 OKAY. 7:46 NO. 7:49 DO YOU STILL HAVE YOUR PHONE? 7:50 GO AHEAD. 7:50 I'M SORRY. 7:53 NO, NO. 7:53 >> I MEAN I MEAN, YOU KNOW, 7:54 I DON'T APPRECIATE THE I'M NOT 7:56 THE FIRST JOURNALIST 7:57 THAT THEY'VE CALLED NAMES, 7:57 OBVIOUSLY, YOU KNOW, WHEN 8:01 THEY'RE WHEN THEIR BACKS 8:01 AGAINST A WALL, THEY TEND 8:02 TO CALL PEOPLE. 8:03 BUT I'M NOT THREATENED. 8:04 ALSO, THAT'S SORT OF AN 8:07 IMMATERIAL THING FOR ME. 8:08 WE JUST HAVE TO KEEP DOING 8:08 OUR JOBS NO MATTER WHAT PEOPLE 8:11 SAY ABOUT US. 8:15 BUT, YOU KNOW, IN IN TERMS 8:16 OF IN TERMS OF OUR PRESS 8:16 FREEDOM, DON'T FEEL LIKE 8:19 OUR PRESS FREEDOM HAS BEEN 8:19 IMPINGED IN ANY WAY. 8:20 >> IT. 8:22 AND I'VE BEEN THERE, TOO, 8:23 IN THOSE BRIEFINGS LAST TIME 8:24 AROUND WITH THE PRESIDENT WHERE 8:27 HE SAID SOME NOT SO NICE. 8:30 SO I KNOW EXACTLY WHAT YOU'RE 8:30 SAYING. 8:31 YOU'VE GOT TO ASK 8:31 THE QUESTIONS. 8:31 YOU'VE GOT TO YOU KNOW, THROUGH 8:34 THE SPIN MANY TIMES, OF COURSE. 8:34 AND, YOU KNOW, I'M GOING 8:35 TO ASK, AS QUESTIONS AS I CAN 8:38 WHILE I HAVE YOU HERE, JEFFREY. 8:39 >> AND I'M AFRAID I'M NOT 8:41 AND I'M ENJOYING IT. 8:42 >> OKAY, GOOD. 8:42 WELL, LET'S LET'S CONTINUE IT. 8:45 >> DO YOU STILL HAVE YOUR 8:45 PHONE? 8:46 DO YOU STILL HAVE YOUR PHONE? 8:48 I, I HAVE. 8:49 >> I HAVE A LOT OF DEVICES. 8:49 DO STILL HAVE THE PHONE 8:52 THAT YOU WERE ON SIGNAL WITHIN 8:56 THIS GROUP CHAT WITH ALL THESE 8:56 HIGH LEVEL SECURITY. 9:00 >> HEY, CAN I DO A CAN I DO 9:01 A THING THAT POLITICIANS ALWAYS 9:01 DO. 9:04 >> ARE YOU GOING TO SPIN 9:04 THE REAL. 9:05 NO, BUT I THINK THE REAL IS WHY 9:07 WERE THESE GUYS ON SIGNAL? 9:08 >> I MEAN, LIKE A SERIOUSLY 9:11 LIKE. 9:12 LIKE, YOU KNOW, WHERE YOU'RE 9:12 ASKING ME QUESTIONS THAT THEY 9:16 WANT YOU TO ASK. 9:16 >> YEAH, BUT YOU'RE DEFLECTING 9:19 . 9:19 NOW YOU'RE DEFLECTING BECAUSE 9:20 I'M ASKING. 9:20 I MEAN, I REALLY THINK 9:21 DEFLECTING THE QUESTION. 9:24 I REALLY THINK THAT IT'S 9:24 INTERESTING THAT THAT YOU HAVE 9:25 THIS ENORMOUS NATIONAL BREACH 9:27 AND YOU'RE ASKING ME ABOUT, 9:28 YOU KNOW, MY OWN LIFE AND MY 9:31 OWN DEVICES. 9:31 LIKE, WHO CARES? 9:32 LIKE, THE REAL THING IS THAT 9:35 IS THAT THESE GUYS ARE GOING 9:35 ON SIGNAL THAT THEY INVITED 9:36 THE EDITOR IN CHIEF OF THE 9:39 ATLANTIC INTO 9:39 THEIR CONVERSATION, HAD NO IDEA 9:40 WHO THEY'RE TALKING. 9:42 >> SO WHY WERE THEY ON SIGNAL? 9:43 WHY WERE THEY WHERE IT SORT 9:46 OF YEMEN. 9:46 >> IT'S ALSO INTERESTING, 9:47 BY THE WAY, IT'S VERY 9:47 INTERESTING. 9:50 >> WE'LL GET THERE. 9:50 WHY? 9:50 WHY WHY DO YOU THINK THEY WERE 9:51 ON SIGNAL? 9:53 >> AND ONE CAN ONLY SPECULATE. 9:57 YOU KNOW, A, LET'S NOT FORGET, 9:58 IT IS CONVENIENT. 9:58 YOU KNOW, WHEN WHEN YOU'RE A 9:59 FEDERAL AT THAT LEVEL, 10:01 NATIONAL SECURITY, YOU'RE REALLY SUPPOSED TO TALK TO PEOPLE IN SKIFFS WHICH ARE COMPARTMENTALIZED VERY, VERY, VERY SAFE FACILITIES THAT ARE DESIGNED TO REPEL THE NEFARIOUS WORKS OF FOREIGN INTELLIGENCE AGENCIES THAT ARE TRYING TO LISTEN TO YOU. RIGHT. SO YOU'RE SUPPOSED TO BE DOING IT IN YOUR IN YOUR SKIFFS AND PEOPLE HAVE THEM IN THEIR HOMES. OBVIOUSLY, SOME OF THEIR VEHICLES ARE EQUIPPED TO TO DEAL WITH THAT. BUT, YOU KNOW, THEY'RE HEADING INTO I MEAN, LITERALLY ORGANIZE THIS TRACK BECAUSE THEY WERE HEADING IN. MIKE WALLACE ORGANIZED A CHAT AS HE SAID, BECAUSE THEY'RE HEADING INTO THE WEEKEND, THEY KNEW THAT SOME KIND OF ACTIVITY WOULD BE TAKING PLACE IN YEMEN. RIGHT. AND THEY AND THEY WERE COLLECTING WE CAN OF CONTACT FOR EVERYBODY. RIGHT. SO THERE'S CONVENIENCE. THERE'S ANOTHER EXPLANATION. REMEMBER, IN SIGNAL, YOU CAN SET YOUR MESSAGES TO DISAPPEAR. NOW, THESE KIND OF CONVERSATIONS, THESE KIND OF CONVERSATIONS ARE SUPPOSED BE BY LAW, ARCHIVED, RIGHT? >> THERE'S SUPPOSED TO BE THEY'RE SUPPOSED TO BE COPIED INTO AN OFFICIAL GOVERNMENT ACCOUNT. AND THOSE AND THAT THAT THE 11:02 COPIES OF THOSE CONVERSATIONS 11:03 ALSO GO TO THE 11:03 NATIONAL ARCHIVES FOR REASONS, 11:06 ACCOUNTABILITY, TRANSPARENCY, 11:07 HISTORY, ETC., ETC. ETC.. 11:10 SO, YOU KNOW, IF I WANTED 11:11 TO HAVE A CONVERSATION THAT'S 11:12 UNOFFICIAL OR I DIDN'T WANT 11:14 TO BOTHER TO AND I WANTED 11:14 TO TALK FRANKLY IN A KIND 11:15 OF WAY THAT THOUGHT WOULDN'T 11:17 LOOK GOOD DOWN THE ROAD. 11:18 YOU KNOW, YOU CAN IMAGINE IN A 11:21 SIGNAL AND DOING IT OFF 11:22 YOUR PHONE. 11:24 THE PROBLEM IS ONE OF THE 11:25 PROBLEMS IS, IS THAT THE PHONES 11:26 THEMSELVES ARE TARGETED. 11:30 >> IT'S A FOREIGN INTELLIGENCE 11:30 OPERATION. 11:33 RIGHT. 11:34 I MEAN, THE CHINESE, 11:34 THE RUSSIANS, IRANIANS, OTHERS 11:37 ,OBVIOUSLY WOULD LOVE TO KNOW 11:38 WHAT'S HAPPENING INSIDE. 11:39 PDX SETS PHONE WHAT'S HAPPENING 11:41 INSIDE MARCO RUBIO'S PHONE 11:41 AND YOU KNOW THERE'S ALL KINDS 11:44 OF VERY SOPHISTICATED 11:45 OPERATIONS AND WE KNOW 11:45 ABOUT SOME OF THESE AND WE 11:46 DON'T ABOUT OTHERS. 11:49 SO SO THAT'S THE REASON 11:49 THAT THEY'RE SUPPOSED DO THINGS 11:53 BEHIND A BEHIND LIKE A DIGITAL 11:55 WALL OF PROTECTION AND NOT JUST 11:56 BE OUT AT THE SUPERMARKET, OUT 12:00 AT A RESTAURANT, RUNNING 12:00 ERRANDS. 12:00 >> SO LET ME JEFFREY, LET ME 12:03 FOLLOW UP ON THAT THEN. 12:04 >> THEN DO YOU THINK THEY WERE 12:04 USING SIGNAL? 12:07 THEY DIDN'T THEY DIDN'T WANT 12:07 THE COMMUNICATION TO BE 12:10 ARCHIVED. 12:11 >> I MEAN, YOU'D HAVE TO ASK 12:12 THEM. 12:15 >> I MEAN, I THINK THAT'S 12:15 ONE PLAUSIBLE EXPLANATION. 12:16 SO TELL ME I'M WRONG. 12:19 THEY HAVE YOUR PHONE. 12:19 JUST TELL ME I'M WRONG. 12:23 NO, YOU'RE WRONG. 12:23 THEY DO NOT HAVE YOUR PHONE. 12:26 THEY DON'T HAVE YOUR PHONE. 12:27 YEAH. 12:27 OKAY. 12:30 SO YOU STILL. 12:30 I MEAN, I SEE PHONE. 12:31 AND THE WAY I THINK YOU KNOW, 12:33 THAT. 12:34 >> I WOULD THINK YOU WOULD KNOW 12:34 THAT BECAUSE I DON'T. 12:35 BECAUSE WE WERE. 12:38 >> OH, NO, NO, NO. 12:39 DIFFERENT STORY. 12:39 EVERYONE'S TELLING YOU THINK 12:41 ABOUT. 12:41 >> THINK ABOUT. 12:42 THINK ABOUT WHAT PRESS FREEDOM 12:42 MEANS IN AMERICA. 12:45 CAN YOU IMAGINE A SITUATION 12:45 IN WHICH I DIDN'T HAVE MY 12:48 PHONE? 12:48 >> I'M JUST GONNA LEAVE IT 12:49 THERE. 12:49 I MEAN, WOULD BE PRETTY SERIOUS 12:53 STUFF. 12:53 ALL RIGHT. 12:53 YOU KNOW, THE REASON. 12:56 YOU KNOW ABOUT IT IS ALL OVER 12:57 TV SAYING, OH, MY GOD, LOOK 12:57 WHAT HAPPENED? 12:59 >> HMM. 12:59 ALL RIGHT. 13:00 NO, I REALLY THINK I'M NOT. 13:03 >> I'M. 13:04 I AM. 13:04 I AM. 13:04 I'M THINKING ABOUT, YOU KNOW, 13:07 I MEAN, THERE'S THERE'S A LOT 13:08 THAT THERE'S VINES, YOU KNOW, 13:10 SHOULD NOT BE CROSSED 13:11 IN AMERICA. 13:11 >> BUT DON'T YOU THINK WERE 13:14 CROSSED HERE? 13:14 I MEAN, IF IF, IF INDEED 13:18 INFORMATION WAS BEING EXCHANGED 13:21 ON SIGNAL AND A JOURNALIST WAS 13:22 INVITED TO THAT CONVERSATION 13:25 AND NOW EVERYBODY'S TELLING 13:25 YOU, I MEAN, THE PRESIDENT SAYS 13:26 THAT THAT YOU THIS CONVERSATION 13:33 I BARELY KNOW HOW TO TAKE 13:33 A SCREENSHOT. 13:34 BELIEVE ME, IT DIDN'T HACK INTO 13:36 ANYBODY'S PHONE. 13:36 I MEAN, YOU HAVE TO LISTEN. 13:40 LISTEN, MIKE WALTZ INVITED ME 13:44 TO SIGNAL, AND THEN HE ADDED ME 13:45 TO A GROUP. 13:47 I DON'T KNOW HOW TO SAY IT 13:48 MORE SIMPLY THAN THAT. 13:51 MY PHONE NUMBER WAS MY PHONE 13:52 NUMBER WAS OBVIOUSLY IN HIS 13:52 PHONE. 13:55 THAT'S HOW I GOT INVITED. 13:56 THAT'S ALL I GOT. 13:56 I MEAN, THAT'S. 13:56 THAT'S I GOT FOR YOU. 13:59 >> I MEAN, I WISH THIS WAS LIKE 14:00 A LECTURE, A THRILLER OR, 14:02 SOMETHING. 14:03 IT WOULD BE MORE EXCITING. 14:03 BUT HE THEY SENT ME A MESSAGE 14:04 REQUEST AND I ANSWERED. 14:06 >> SO LET ME ASK YOU THIS. 14:07 WHY DID YOU CHANGE FROM WAR, 14:10 PLANS TO ATTACK PLANS? 14:11 THE ADMINISTRATION IS SEIZING 14:14 ON THAT. 14:14 >> I MEAN YOU KNOW, 14:18 THE SEMANTIC GAMES 14:19 ARE RIDICULOUS. 14:19 I WOULD SAY THAT WITH THE TERM 14:22 WAR PLAN MORE GENERALLY REFERS 14:23 TO A STRATEGIC DISCUSSION, 14:25 WHEREAS ATTACK PLAN IS MORE 14:26 TACTICAL ABOUT TIMES 14:30 AND WEAPONS USED AND SPECIFIC 14:33 TARGETS. 14:34 IN THIS CASE, THIS HOUTHI 14:34 TERRORIST THAT THEY WERE TRYING 14:35 TO KILL. 14:35 AND I THEY DID KILL AND SO 14:40 ATTACK SEEMED LIKE A MORE 14:41 ACCURATE WORD TO DESCRIBE IT. 14:44 >> HOWEVER, AGAIN, IT'S JUST 14:45 ALL NONSENSE. 14:49 IT'S NONSENSE. 14:49 THEY'RE THROWING UP ALL THESE 14:49 SMOKESCREENS TO AVOID 14:53 BEING QUESTIONED ABOUT WHY 14:56 THEY SO RECKLESS AS TO 14:57 HAVE SENSITIVE CONVERSATIONS 14:57 LIKE THIS IN SIGNAL AND WHY 15:01 THEY INVITED A JOURNALIST 15:01 AND DIDN'T EVEN KNOW THAT A 15:05 JOURNALIST WAS THERE. 15:05 >> I MEAN, WARPLANE ATTACK. 15:08 I MEAN, YOU KNOW, IT'S JUST NOT 15:09 NONSENSE TALK. 15:12 >> BUT ATTACK IS IS ACTUALLY AN 15:12 ACCURATE TERM FOR WHAT THEY 15:13 WERE DOING. 15:15 WAR PLAN IS LIKE YOU KNOW WE 15:16 HAVE A BALANCE OF POWER IN ASIA 15:19 AND WE'RE GOING TO HAVE TO 15:20 DEVELOP A STRATEGY FOR 15:20 COUNTERING CHINA OVERALL 15:24 STRATEGY THAT LEVEL. 15:24 >> YEAH, AT A LEVEL VERSUS JUST 15:27 HAVING THIS CONVERSATION 15:27 IN SIGNAL BECAME VERY 15:31 OPERATIONAL AND TACTICAL. 15:31 IT WENT FROM SHOULD WE DO 15:34 AND WHEN SHOULD WE DO IT 15:35 AND WHO'S GOING TO PAY FOR IT 15:36 IF WE IT TO THIS IS WHAT WE'RE 15:39 DOING. 15:39 >> IT'S ON RIGHT. 15:42 >> OKAY. 15:42 JEFFREY, ON THE WHETHER 15:43 YOU'RE A JOURNALIST, 15:43 A JOURNALIST JOURNALIST, 15:46 A JOURNALIST, AM I MISSING JUST 15:46 ANYTHING HERE? 15:47 WHAT AM I WHAT AM I MISSING 15:50 HERE? 15:50 WHAT AM I MISSING? 15:50 AM I MISSING ANYTHING? 15:51 AM I IS THERE A QUESTION 15:54 THAT HAS THAT YOU'RE NOT BEEN 15:54 ASKED? 15:57 >> NO, I THINK I'VE BEEN ASKED 15:58 ALL THE QUESTIONS. 16:01 YEAH, THE. 16:01 THE SERIOUS QUESTION IS. 16:05 YOU KNOW WHAT'S INTERESTING 16:05 AND THIS IS THIS GOES TO SORT 16:06 OF LEADERSHIP QUESTION. 16:09 YOU KNOW, IT'S LIKE PEOPLE MAKE 16:09 MISTAKES THE TIME. 16:13 THEY'RE USUALLY NOT AS SERIOUS 16:14 AS THIS ONE, BUT PEOPLE MAKE 16:14 MISTAKES ALL THE TIME 16:16 ESPECIALLY IN GOVERNMENT. 16:17 >> AND WHEN YOU GET WHEN 16:18 YOU MAKE A MISTAKE AND, 16:21 YOU'RE CALLED OUT FOR MAKING 16:21 THE MISTAKE. 16:21 YOU SHOULD SIMPLY SAY, YEAH, WE 16:22 MADE DOOZY. 16:24 WE SHOULDN'T HAVE DONE THAT. 16:25 AND NOW WE'RE GOING TO DO 16:25 THE FOLLOWING THINGS TO MAKE 16:28 SURE THAT WE DON'T DO IT AGAIN. 16:29 AND THEN YOU WOULD HAVE A 16:31 ONE DAY STORY OR A TWO DAY 16:31 STORY FOR WHATEVER REASON, 16:35 HAVE DECIDED THAT THEY 16:35 CAN'T SAY THAT THEY PUT 16:39 HYPERSENSITIVE INFORMATION INTO 16:39 A UNAUTHORIZED MESSAGING APP 16:43 AND THEN INVITED THE EDITOR 16:43 IN CHIEF OF THE ATLANTIC TO 16:46 LISTEN IN ON 16:46 THEIR CONVERSATION. 16:47 THEY THEY CAN'T ADMIT THAT. 16:50 AND SO THEY HAVE TO TURN IT 16:51 INTO A CONVERSATION 16:54 ABOUT SEMANTICS. 16:55 >> WELL, AND IF WE LOOK 16:56 AT HISTORY, A COVER UP NEVER 16:58 TURNS OUT GOOD AT THE END. 16:59 ALL RIGHT, JEFFREY, YOU KNOW, 17:02 THAT'S WHAT WE LEARNED. 17:03 >> I MEAN, ORIGINALLY, I THINK 17:03 THAT EXPRESSION WAS FROM 17:06 WATERGATE. 17:06 IT'S NOT THE CRIME, IT'S THE 17:07 COVER UP. 17:07 AND IT'S LIKE THEY'RE JUST 17:08 EXTENDING OUT THE STORY. 17:10 AND OBVIOUSLY, I'M GOING 17:13 TO RESPOND. 17:13 WE'RE GOING TO RESPOND IF. 17:17 THEY SAY THINGS THAT ARE 17:18 UNTRUE. 17:18 AND SO THAT'S WHAT WE'RE DOING 17:21 . 17:21 AND I THOUGHT, YOU KNOW, AT THE 17:22 END OF THE DAY, I THOUGHT, 17:22 OKAY, LET'S LET'S LET 17:23 THE PEOPLE PEOPLE READ THESE 17:25 READ THESE MESSAGES, READ THE 17:26 PLAIN ENGLISH, AND DECIDE IF 17:29 YOU THINK IT'S APPROPRIATE 17:30 THAT THE SECRETARY OF DEFENSE 17:32 AND THE NATIONAL SECURITY 17:32 ADVISER TO THE PRESIDENT OF 17:33 THE UNITED STATES SHOULD 17:36 BE SAYING THESE THINGS ON A 17:37 COMMERCIAL PRIVATELY MESSAGING 17:40 APP THAT THEY'RE NOT ALLOWED 17:41 TO USE, AND YOU THEN MAKE 17:45 YOUR DECISION, IT'S FINE. 17:47 BUT IF YOU IF YOU THINK 17:48 IT'S FINE, THEN THEN YOU GO DO 17:49 IT. 17:51 BUT THAT'S THAT'S THAT'S THAT'S 17:52 THE PURPOSE OF JOURNALISM IN A 17:55 FREE COUNTRY. 17:55 >> I'M EXPECTING A FOLLOW UP 17:56 STORY. 17:56 AM RIGHT. 17:58 YOU FROM WHAT I'M SENSING, 17:59 THERE'S SOMETHING COMING. 18:02 I YOU KNOW, I'VE GOT A LOT OF MEETINGS TO GO TO. I KNOW IF WE'RE I MEAN, LOOK, HERE'S THE THING. IT'S ALL OUT THERE. THE CHATTER IS OUT THERE. PEOPLE CAN MAKE UP THEIR MINDS. I DON'T KNOW WHAT'S. GOING TO HAPPEN. I WISH THEY WOULD STOP BEHAVING IN AN IMMATURE FASHION AND JUST DEAL WITH THE ACTUAL ISSUES AT HAND. BUT A LOT OF US IN PROFESSION HAVE SPENT EIGHT OR NINE YEARS HOPING THAT THEY WOULD RESPOND MATURE WAYS AND SERIOUS WAYS TO SUBSTANTIVE ISSUES, AND OFTEN THEY DON'T. AND SO HERE WE ARE STILL TALKING ABOUT IT 48 HOURS LATER . I THINK THE FACTS ARE OUT THERE AND AT SOME POINT THINGS ARE GOING TO COME TO AN EVEN BIGGER HEAD. JEFFREY GOLDBERG, EDITOR IN CHIEF OF THE THANKS FOR THIS IS THE BEAUTY OF STREAMING. WE REALLY HAD A CHANCE TO HAVE A GOOD CONVERSATION. >> I HAD A GOOD TIME EXCEPT FOR A BUNCH OF YEARS. >> I HAD A GOOD TIME, A BUNCH OF MY WHAT? >> A BUNCH OF YOUR QUESTIONS. BUT, YOU KNOW, IT'S FINE. THIS IS THIS SYSTEM. 19:00 I THINK THIS IS RIGHT. THIS IS FREEDOM, DEMOCRACY IN ACTION. YOU ASK ME A QUESTION, I AVOID THEM. >> THEN YOU TRY AGAIN AND THEN I'M TO SAY GREAT

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