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THE TRUMP PRESIDENCY TRUMP IS UNFIT TO BE PRESIDENT Washington Post: Why Bob Woodward worries about Trump's America PLAY YOUTUBE VIDEO Original article: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b5Zy5YQ2WFY Peter Burgess COMMENTARY Peter Burgess
Why Bob Woodward worries about Trump's America Washington Post Mar 28, 2025 2.76M subscribers ... 659,021 views ... 18K likes Post Reports What does Bob Woodward think of all this? Colby Itkowitz poses that question to the renowned Washington Post journalist in his first sit-down interview about President Donald Trump since Trump’s second inauguration. Over 50 years ago, Woodward’s reporting of the break-in at the Watergate with his colleague Carl Bernstein exposed the Nixon administration’s plan to spy on and sabotage his political adversaries and the cover-up that followed. After President Richard Nixon’s resignation, Congress would go on to enact new limits on presidential power, which Trump is now challenging. In the years since Watergate, Bob Woodward has continued to report on presidents – interviewing Trump and writing three books about him that reveal the president’s approach to power. “So much of it is Trump just asserted himself, taking on the role of the courts, taking on the role of Congress,” Woodward told Itkowitz. “So we are entering a moment where there is going to be a clash of those traditions and laws and Trump's will.” Special thanks to the Gerald R. Ford Presidential Library. Chapter highlights: 00:00 Intro 02:49 - On whether the U.S. is still 'a great republic' and 'a government of laws and not of men' 06:07 - Would Republicans today take a stand against Trump like they did in the Nixon era? 07:14 - Trump, power and fear as a method 08:47 - On Trump's plans for his second term 11:29 - America now vs. America during the Nixon era 13:58 - Trump's assertion of power 15:05 - What Woodward sees as Trump's end goal 15:46 - Trump and tariffs in 2018 19:04 - How worried should journalists be about retribution compared to the Watergate era? 21:51 - 'Everything is mine' Transcript Intro 0:00 what would Bob Woodward think that's the question I've been asking myself for weeks since President Trump took office for a second time Bob Woodward renowned Washington Post journalist who worked with Carl Bernstein to investigate and uncover the Watergate scandal President Richard Nixon became the first and only US president to resign from office In the 50 years since Watergate Bob Woodward has continued to report on US presidents He's written books about the last 10 And he wrote three bestsellers about President Trump And so I've been thinking he had a front row seat to the massive transformations in our federal government following Watergate And he spent hours talking to Trump when he was writing those books I went to his house last week to ask him this question What does he make of President Trump's approach to the presidency this time this is Post Reports I'm Colobby Echowitz It's Friday March 28th Two 1:00 quick notes We spoke with Bob before the news of the Signal group chat so that won't be in our conversation And also if you're listening to this conversation you can also watch it It's on YouTube and the link to that is in our show notes So here it is My conversation with Bob Woodward Bob thank you so much for being here Thank you So I want to start by playing something that I'm sure you've heard uh many times but let's just take a listen Sure Our Constitution works Our great republic is a government of laws and not of men As as you well know that was Gerald Ford in the summer of 1974 Um I wonder listening to that now how that makes you feel what you think hearing those words Wow There's 50 years of reflection and reporting for the Washington Post and for endless books Uh it's uh it was a very important 2:02 time in American history and a lot of people have kind of uh used it for political purposes one way or another But the reality was that Nixon resigned because of Watergate And you say used it for political purposes In in what way well in the way of saying that uh look Nixon was a criminal or see distorting it and saying 'Oh Nixon was railroaded out out of office.' Yeah by a very aggressive press and by Democrats And we now know from the tapes that establish conclusively that Nixon was a criminal When Gerald Ford says you On whether the U.S. is still 'a great republic' and 'a government of laws and not of men' know we're a great republic we're a government of laws and not men Do you think that's still true right now in this moment uh it seems less so There's 3:01 no I mean it is a very very different time obviously because this is 50 years of history I go went back and got some notes and I want to be very precise about this because there were laws and changes that took place after 1974 when Nixon resigned And one of them was a 10-year term for the FBI director Uh the other was putting inspector generals in place in all of the agencies and another was a very rigorous series of restraints on campaign contributions and expenditures But the inspector generals have been wiped out by Trump The in a practical 4:02 sense the limit on campaign contributions and expenditures is gone because of the political action committees and the concentration of political money which inevitably as we know corrupting One of the things uh many of the founders said said is that the constitution is an experiment It's continually evolving changing and being tested frankly And there's no bigger test of the constitution than Trump So you brought up all the things that Trump has done to kind of dismantle what happened after Watergate and I've been thinking what is going through Bob Woodward's mind right now and that was the question that led us here So what is going through your mind as you watch Trump 5:01 fire inspector generals um you know try to fire the head of the government ethics office and the other things that you mentioned and take control in a very authoritarian way of the government and the traditions of democracy Right So what have you been thinking well I'm worried I think everyone even those who support it should be worried because it's done offline so much of it Is Trump just asserting himself uh taking on the role of the courts uh taking on the role of Congress and uh the courts in Congress still have their power and uh so we are entering a moment where uh there is going to be a clash of those 6:00 traditions and laws and Trump's will One big difference that I'm I've been thinking about is that Nixon resigned Would Republicans today take a stand against Trump like they did in the Nixon era? his when his party turned against him when they couldn't when the Republicans in Congress weren't going to defend him any longer And yet Trump seems to have all of the Republicans in Congress supporting him I mean what is it going to take to put a check on the executive if the Republicans in Congress aren't willing to do that well the Republicans have the majority and uh they are supportive of Trump and what he's doing at this point I think it will come a point where uh Republicans are going to say uh is there too much assertion of power by Trump what do you think it'll take well you've been already that's why I like journalism We don't have to do the future We do what's happening and 7:00 what happened And uh who knows we'll I I certainly there but there is a catastrophic confrontation and clash building right now So Bob you've written Trump, power and fear as a method three books on President Trump You've spent more time with him than most What are the impressions of him that maybe people don't know what did you learn about him during all the time that you spent with him well in one of my interviews with him we're talking about power which of course is an important issue in politics and any institution And Trump said real power is I hate to use the word but the word is fear And he uses he scares people Fear is a method And the first book I did on him uses that one-word title fear 8:01 because it it's a method and it's Trump's practice He uses it with the electorate too He scares people with his rhetoric about immigrants and Democrats and a deep state But how else does he use fear well he uses it personally um he will call people and um berate them I mean these days there are lots of reports of Trump calling Republicans and say get on board with what I am doing and what I'm pushing and they're really just that afraid of him Well they're afraid of him and they also lots of them agree with him Knowing him as well as On Trump's plans for his second term you know him when he won re-election in November what did you think was going to happen in the second term what what or what were you worried about happening in this second term well 9:01 first of all uh he he had four years of not being president he lost to Joe Biden And these were years to uh for him to kind of clean his guns u get the ammunition in line and what he's done and the push and the activism Clearly those four years were spent some way planning and laying out of okay what I'm what am I going to do when I get back in power So it's it's very organized lots of executive orders lots of doing what Trump wants rather than I would argue what the law says Yeah Uh I mean have are you surprised by how quickly it's all happened i mean he's only been in office now a little over two months But when you have four years 10:01 to plan uh in in a way yes it's happening quickly but this is an imple implementation of a strategy of uh implementing his will Is that a strategy you feel like he laid out for you when you were interviewing him like did you know to the extent obviously he wants power and he operates through fear but did you know to the extent that he would push for power in the ways that he has no And quite honestly I was not sure after he he lost in 2020 Yeah Uh that he there would be a comeback and he has staged a comeback political comeback very successfully What does that say about where America is right now well America is we all know is so divided but and it's narrowly divided 11:00 but uh Trump and the Republicans control not only the presidency but the Congress And the question is going to be and it's surfacing daily what are the courts going to do and there is so many of these issues are in the courts Again it's we don't know that future You mentioned how divided we are as a nation right now Compare this America now vs. America during the Nixon era America to the America 50 years ago when Watergate happened Uh easier to describe the creation of the universe I mean there's obviously a big difference What happened 50 years ago is there was a Republican party that was independent of President Nixon And the Republican party 12:00 eventually led by Barry Goldwater the conservative senator from Arizona uh to hold Nixon accountable And it was a very uh stunning assertion of congressional and Republican power And there's a meeting I've described in my books where Nixon met with the Republican leadership and Barry Goldwater And Nixon this is at a point where he was going to be impeached charged and the question was what would happen in a Senate trial And he would need more than onethird to make sure he was not impeached not thrown out of office requiring twothirds And uh in a discussion interview with Goldwater Goldwater recounted how he and 13:02 the Republican leaders went to Nixon and uh Nixon said 'Well what's going to happen uh in a Senate trial?' Yeah And Goldwater said 'Uh Mr President you have only five votes and one of them is not mine.' And the next day Nixon announced he was resigning We saw President Trump go through two impeachments that obviously didn't result in him getting charged by the Senate Could it happen today again you know we're we're trying and I think we get those of us in the news media get trap ourselves by trying to predict the future and say this is going to happen or this is likely or this is unlikely We're in very fluid times Yeah So who knows i don't for sure Trump's assertion of power I mean look at what he's he's asserting 14:00 himself now All these executive orders I mean he has stood his ground and said 'This is what I'm going to do I am shrink.' He and Elon Musk the richest man in the world his sidekick are cutting the government and u look at what we are see I mean in in some cases it's done as people have said with the chainsaw and we know from our personal lives or businesses that when you have to cut that's a really tricky undertaking and you need to very carefully spell out what you're going to do and do it very slowly and be very certain that the impact uh is that they're not secondary events that you trigger with and look at what's going on now I think 15:01 it's one of the most dangerous times this country has ever faced What Woodward sees as Trump's end goal What do you think Trump's end goal is in all of this in the sledgehammering the government tariff putting tariffs on our allies like Canada like what is the what is his big end goal as president well his end goal is and it looks like he wants to destroy the economy and uh that is a very dangerous undertaking I mean he states the motive as very positive uh but it look at what people are going through having very negative impact Yeah I went through some notes if I may and Trump and tariffs in 2018 give an example here I want to go back seven years okay to 2018 Some reporting I did It's January 2018 Uh Trump is in 16:02 the Oval Office with his economic advisors Now at this moment Trump wanted tariffs like he wants right now in 2025 And his chief economic advisor in the White House was Gary Cohen And Cohen is somebody who'd been president of Goldman Sachs Uh had been at that firm for 27 years And if a Republican president needed uh a economic advisor Gary Cohen was the person to do that And Trump says 'I want tariffs seven years ago.' And Cohen says tariffs uh risk roing the economy and jeopardizing the stock market gains And he says as economists now say that tariffs are a tax on American consumers 17:04 He's quite right So Trump doesn't like this and says to Cohen 'You're a globalist.' Now this is a term we don't hear these days but globalist is somebody who takes into account the international repercussions of decisions And Trump says to Cohen 'I don't care what you think anymore G.' And he shoes this is in the Oval Office shoes him out of the meeting and go sit on the couch You're almost being disciplined Other words Trump is thinking about the country Yeah Only right wants to rip it out of the international frame that we exist in And he doesn't have people like Gary Con around him this time to try to reign him in Yeah I mean 18:01 how how dangerous is that that you don't even have it doesn't appear that there are people in the Oval Office this time around pushing back in that way uh not that we know of And I think that's intentional Yeah Somebody in the White House gave me what Trump had written out in his own hand Mhm Trade is bad Now this reflects a view that uh oh it's all about uh only the United States and trade is somehow a poison Trade is necessary Trade is good But here is Trump saying trade is bad Uh trade is inevitable and serves many purposes of many Americans and the idea that we would eliminate trade and isolate ourselves is 19:01 uh preposterous How worried should How worried should journalists be about retribution compared to the Watergate era? journalists be about retribution compared to maybe what you faced during the Nixon era um by the White House by the Trump administration well Trump's made it clear He calls the journalists that he doesn't like fake news And um we still have the first amendment and I think the courts will uphold that I think the courts uh it's in the constitution It's part of u the tradition and I know as a journalist I'm glad it's there I think it's very important I think people are really worried about the guard rails of the Constitution and whether they'll hold Well I don't look I I the word guard rails I mean the Constitution isn't a guard rail It's an absolute This is who 20:00 we are This is um what we hold sacred And uh certainly one of those is the first amendment is freedom of expression So we can still operate as journalists I think we need to talk about myself work harder and um really dig in and try to break into it I mean 50 years ago in the Nixon era Carl Bernstein and I were able to break into it We we were young had the full support of the Washington Post Katherine Graham the owner Ben Bradley uh the editor I think the Post reporters have that same support Now you do think that I I do Okay But um there are some constraints being put on I 21:00 don't see that I mean has had an impact on the opinion side I don't see that it has curtailed coverage on the news side but we'll see Yeah Trump said the other day um Jeff Bezos is doing a real job with the Washington Post I don't know what that means but I don't know how you take that Well I guess he likes some of it Trump does Um but I think it I think it's been very aggressive and very sound And I know of no constraints being put on the news side by uh owners but you know that will become clearer with time Yeah Hopefully it stays that way Yes So are there other Everything is mine conversations that you had with Trump while you were reporting on him that kind of illuminate his view his worldview his personal view how he runs 22:00 the country in 2020 in one of the interviews I did with Trump uh he just said and I'm asking about the process and of how you make decisions and he said I get people they come in with ideas but the ideas are mine Bob the ideas are mine want to know something everything is mine End quote Everything is mine No it's not Holding the office of president is uh an honor a great a grave responsibility and to think of it in personal terms is inevitable but also what are the 23:00 interests of the country Bob thank you so much for having us in your beautiful home Thank you [Music]

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