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US ELECTION THE PRESIDENTIAL DEBATE 2024 The News Agents: Does Donald Trump really believe he won last night's debate? PLAY YOUTUBE VIDEO Original article: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IRHZRhgaJ9Y Peter Burgess COMMENTARY Peter Burgess
Does Donald Trump really believe he won last night's debate? \| The News Agents The News Agents Sep 12, 2024 83.6K subscribers ... 99,389 views ... 2K likes The News Agents Donald Trump was either up early this morning or didnt go to bed at all after his encounter with Kamala. He appeared on Fox News as they were discussing last night's debate performance - and claimed that 'polls' had called him the winner by 80 percent. Does he really believe it went well? Will he be convinced to do another one in October? And whose mind will have been changed by the performance of either candidate. There was no rowing back from the 'pet eating migrants' line. No softening on his stance on executed babies. But he took the news of Taylor Swift's endorsement of his opponent by predicting she would 'suffer for it in the marketplace'. For the first time since July 5th all three News Agents are in the studio together to discuss the fall out. And ask what now for Labour after the cuts to winter fuel bill passed with only one rebellious MP. #taylorswift #tvdebate #uspresidentialdebate #donaldtrump #joebiden #kamalaharris #jdvance #timwalz #democrats #republicans #usa #uspolitics #americanpolitics #america #uspresidentialelections2024 #uspresident #News #Politics #NewsAgents #EmilyMaitlis #JonSopel #LewisGoodall Download The News Agents with Emily Maitlis, Jon Sopel and Lewis Goodall from 5PM every weekday on Global Player: https://www.globalplayer.com/podcasts... Emily Maitlis, Jon Sopel and Lewis Goodall – three of the UK’s top journalists – host a brand-new daily news podcast: The News Agents. They’re not just here to tell you what's happening, but why. Expect astute analysis and explanation of the day's news – and a healthy dose of scepticism and the ability to laugh at it all when needed! Episodes are available every weekday afternoon. The News Agents is a Global Player Original podcast. Transcript 0:00 the news agents hey I've got a quick question for you uh out of nowhere after the debate last night uh Taylor Swift endorsed uh KLA Harris what do you think I was not a Taylor Swift fan it was just a question of time she couldn't uh you couldn't possibly endorse Biden you look at Biden You couldn't possibly endorse him but she's a very liberal person she seems to always endorse a Democrat and she'll probably pay a price for it at the uh in the marketplace but no I I that was Donald Trump receiving the news that Taylor Swift has now endorsed his opponent camela Harris after a debate which he believes he won 8020 he called it one of my better debates on Fox News which is always a sure sign that it was a catastrophe when Donald Trump is articulating how fantastically I did it means he did really badly but what is he going to do about it now because everyone else sees it as an utter disaster welcome to the news 1:04 agents it's John it's Emily it's leis Bingo full house that is extraordinary because we actually haven't been together in news agents Global headquarters since am I right in saying Global with a small case G and a upper case G yes very Global and Global um since the the day of the election yeah the day after the election the day after the election so July the 5th just over two months since we've all sat here yeah Cy well if you do it's like an AGM we only meet now three times a year yeah we're going to have a vote on something shareholders votes on something well maybe we could vote on you not talking about me the whole bloody time for the past week every time no every time I listen I just think you Shadow because you hate the words John soel and new book in the same sentence being said as many times as possible for God's sake do not say book plugging I heard know that goes yeah where it goes had me kind of squeezing my butttocks in on the plane when I heard that okay there we are that together exactly we're going to talk you through the Fallout of the debate last 2:06 night some of us are feeling a bit giddy because I think we've all been up since about 1:30 a.m. yes you and I had to be up for news agents USA this one of course can't miss out a good political occasion so got up anyway I tried to go to honestly I tried to go I'm tossing and turning and my wife just said why don't you just go and watch it because it was just you know I realized that I actually had a completely normal light sleep cuz I went to woke up at 1:30 went back to sleep at 5: and I was like oh yeah that's just what I do with the if only there was a presidential debate every night it would give you an ex i' be there that's my perfect work Shi well it was quite the debate I mean not as epic as Joe Biden's fail which kind of cost him his place on the debate stage but it was still pretty dramatic nonetheless K Harris what have a good debate you see you have fun thank you they have abortion in the ninth month they even have and you can look at 3:01 the governor of West Virginia the previous governor of West Virginia not the current governor is doing an excellent job but the governor before he said the baby will be born and we will decide what to do with the baby in other words we'll execute the baby there is no state in this country where it is legal to kill a baby after it's born and I'm going to actually do something really unusual and I'm going to invite you to attend one of Donald Trump's rallies cuz it's a really interesting thing to watch and what you will also notice is that people start leaving his rallies early out of exhaustion and boredom first let me respond this to the rallies she said people start leaving people don't go to her rallies there's no reason to go and the people that do go she's busting them in and paying them to be there and why don't you tell the 800,000 polish Americans right here in Pennsylvania how quickly you would give up for the sake of favor and what you think is a friendship with what is known to be a dictator who would eat you for lunch wait a minute I'm talking now you don't mind please does that sound familiar in i>4:05 Springfield they're eating the dogs the people that came in they're eating the cats they're eating they're eating the pets of the people that live there you talk about extreme there is an old Chinese proverb I think it was confucious that says if you talk about Springfield for long enough you eventually start sounding like Homer Simpson and so it came to pass that Donald Trump began the debate on a note that nobody was really expecting talking about pet eating immigrants I suppose if you were to try and sum up this debate not in a word but in an emoji it would be the fishing emoji with a little fish at the end of a fishing rod because that's all it was baiting Time After Time After Time right I mean it was clearly highly rehearsed from Harris's point of view you could see that but it didn't matter because every time Trump \5:00 should have been on strong ground she deployed a little trap that was actually you know you could see from Like A Million Miles Away the best example being the one we just heard about where Trump is asked about immigration and Harris is asked about immigration which should be like the strongest strongest terrain he has and then she just slips in little reference to the fact that she thinks that his crowd sizes are getting smaller and people are disappearing because they can't follow any of the incoherence that he comes out with and exhausted and bored was the phrase she used oh that hits you where it it was beautiful and then beautifully done and then lo and behold of course instead of talking about immigration and actually asking her saying what's your plan on it you you're in charge of the Southern border Etc he goes on this long rant full of nonsecretors about which which ends up in talking about illegal migrants consuming household pets I mean I mean I just I don't think that was on his I don't think that was on his talking points right in the in the pre- debate prep I would have you hope it was you hope it was you hope he weren't in there going if I'm going to do one thing tonight it's going to mention all those 6:05 pets that are being munched lucky got consumed but you moody you want to hold on to Moody Emily watch out for that don't take it to Springfield he won't be coming out yeah and then the presenter has to come in and say you know hang on everybody Pho and titles are going to be fine this is not true the fact they had that line prepped suggest that they were half expecting him to raise it he's done it before I mean I guess that's the other line everything he said last night had already been played out Greatest Hits from the rallies you know but he went into that debate with a real Advantage which I think you forget you know when when you sort of listen to the whole thing he was really strong on the economy in terms of polling he's really strong on the uh immigration issues you know in terms of the polling again and he kind of just gave that lead up 6:54 because he got diverted right but look we all kind of consume new or an awful 7:00 lot of people consume news by the clips on social media and you go back over the history of presidential debates and you know kind of North America editor I did you you do the piece about the presidential debate and how important it is and you show a sweaty Richard Nixon from 1960 you show Mond yeah and you show we add Biden and then you in 2024 and now you'll have Biden but you'll also have the Trump dogs and cat eating do you think that is the line do you think that's the line of the night oh absolutely it's the one that stands out that people will remember he should have been hammering uh kamla Harris on trying to distance herself from Biden over the economy instead of which he mentions it barely once and that should have been again and again and again tying her to Biden yes it was really interesting that after nearly two hours it was a 90-minute debate that went over you know there were actually sort of three you know two ad breaks in the end and Trump is summing up they're all allowed the sort of minute to sum up and he ends with the question why didn't she do all this three and a half years ago and I was like that is the line of the night 8:05 right if you wanted to attack your opponent who has don't forget been in power part of the administration as the vice president why didn't you just go with that from the very beginning and stick to it rigidly and I I wonder if it's a kind of woman thing you know I wonder if she just worked out where to hurt his manhood you know for one of a better phrase she knows that if she mentions Warton economists he went to Warton he's an alumni he doesn't want to hear think my plans are fantastic exactly you know mentions rallies it's it's like she's doing a kind of Size Matters gag each time and he cannot help himself she exploited his Neurosis every single time she got under her skin every single time in some ways it's not like all of her answers were brilliant some of her ansers actually were brilliant and they were really crisp particularly on abortion and a couple of other things as well and and on foreign policy I thought you know really really crisp really well articulated but some of it you know she was as she can be she can 9:04 be quite vague you know and a skillful opponent would have been able to exploit that but Trump couldn't not least because and Emily you've referred to it already like he disappears down the rabbit hole that to some extent he himself has created the the dogs and cats s which is like a Maga talking point comes up in the sort of farri medor all the time there were so many of those things to your average American they would have seemed completely bewildering right because you have to have you have to be really quite deep into kind of Maga you have to have been spending time on Rumble and forchan to understand if you like the Shand of what he's talking about to have a clue what he's talking about right and and this is a sort of interesting point that Trump is at now like I'm not sure at this point whether Trump kind of just sees this stuff and exploits it and talks about it or whether he himself has disappeared down the rabbit hole and believes it or whether it's a kind of like weird but there is a story I think it was AIO where a woman has eaten a cat right and it describes the fact that there was fur around her mouth and I'm 10:03 just guessing you know who knows but I'm I'm sure she was a woman with a very severe mental problem there was no mention of her you know nationality or her her legal status or anything but there is one woman somewhere in America that has eaten a cat and from this tiny little seed this little kernel an entire sort of story about illegal immigrants evolves and the thing that he's kicking himself about is that that he went in he he prepped for all the names of the women that he meant to claim had been killed or raped or or you know brutalized by illegal immigrants he forgot to mention them I mean I'm not suggesting for a moment that these stories or names are true but he went in having prepped these names we've seen him do it before hang on I thought he went in having prepped very little that was the that was the impression he thought I know how to do debates I know how to be on stage I know how to work cameras I know and he completely totally underestimated her in the end and we use this phrase 11:06 you know that someone owns somebody else Kamala Harris totally owned Donald Trump last night she was leading him around the stage leading him on a merry dance leading him down rabbit holes that he shouldn't go down but every time went down them anyway but I agree with leis actually I think that I mean what she did she she did sort of girly SWAT for one of a better phrase preparation she leared those phrases off by heart she was aity too yes there was but there was also occasions where I thought her voice was slightly cracking she stumbled she looked like she was trying to remember lines I bet you those answers were honed in a very smart hotel suite in the days and even weeks ahead and it wouldn't have taken much to knock her off it I agree with that wasn't capable of do I agree with that because when he turned around there was one point where he did have a point he's like Okay so you know I've been corrected about killing babies after the 9 month but what about in the seventh 8th and 9th months you know what 12:05 about I mean these are very very exceptional cases normally they involve the illness of a mother or the or the near fatality of a baby and she kind of was a rabbit in the headlights at that point she couldn't answer that I just you know I looked up some stats on that this morning 93% of abortions in America take place in the first trimester the idea that there is this kind of mass of kind of abortions taking place eight months or executions taking place after the baby is born again is one of those ridiculous talking points I just couldn't work out the strategy I'm sure that the Maga fans were loving it but what about anyone else what was it appealing to the slivers of public opinion which are undecided in America tiny tiny inches that's all you're talking about in this race was it appealing to those people was he reaching out to a new electorate and say come to me I'm fine it was P Bas stuff 13:00 it was pure Bas stuff P there is a stat that came out of this which was they they asked people after the debate are you still convinced by the person that you were backing beforehand 78% of those instantly pulled said they were still supporting Trump and I think it was 88% said the same about Harris so it's interesting that you know there is there is a 10-point gap between I mean it doesn't tell us anything about the raw numbers obviously but it suggests there is a 10-point gap between between the people who were even more convinced by her afterwards than by him afterwards the thing is is that if thinking about the kind of what the overall how this election is won or lost right from from Harris's point of view or trumps I mean basically whoever is on the ballot who's who who's ever record is on the ballot basically loses if this election is about Harris and her incumbency and her connection with Biden if it's about the issues basically Trump wins yeah like probably yeah if it's a referendum on Trump then Harris wins probably Trump's 14:02 base is very very solid most of America already knows how it's going to vote we're talking about tiny numbers of people but what last night does do is put the spotlight back on Trump and questions about Trump's own Fitness for office in a way that the first debate with Biden did and that allows Harris frankly to get away with some of the vagaries about her own policy platform it gives her a bit of momentum just at the moment that she was stalling that's why it's important yes absolutely and there were lots of questions that kamla Harris did not answer last night that she should have been pressed on but Donald Trump is going to absolutely hate the news cycle over the next few days because it's going to be all about him and I'll just make this prediction from having can I watched every day of the Trump presidency he's going to do something dramatic there'll be the sackings of the campaign Chief I it's them that takes the r for the lousy performance or there'll be some wacko announcement that will come out that would just try to derail kamla Harris and the post debate glow that enjoy or 15:08 something he will do something I'm convinced of it Moscow if he pops up in Moscow I'm going to say that's not going to help him much we'll be back in a moment where did you get those numbers from shouts one of the reporters as Donald Trump himself has entered the spin room a place where you normally send your surrogates and ciphers and ch leaders but Donald Trump decided well the only person who's really any good at speaking up for Donald Trump is Donald Trump and so he went in himself a tactic that he deployed I was there in Cleveland in 2016 at one of the debates the Republican debates and he went in there to say I did fantastically that was the best debate performance ever I mean it's really unusual it's very unusual for a presidential candidate to to do that to SP room personally you got your Sur to do it for you exactly you've done the debate why do you need to why which also speaks to your former point which is are 16:06 we holding our breath waiting for Chris levita or Susie WS or somebody who is close to the team to have to walk the plank to either walk the plank or just say I'm done here I tried to do the prep and and he didn't listen one thing I think is really interesting is that I I thought I've got to get out of my bubble I've got to stop listening to sort of progressive talking points on this I've got to sort of you know reach across and and hear from the sort of stations and the commentators that think he did win last night and so I tuned to Fox News they think he lost too yeah I mean it's really interesting that they kept on saying he had the advantage you know on immigration he had the advantage they think he had the advantage on abortion and didn't press that home enough definitely had the advantage on the economy and and even they are kind of pulling their hair out saying why did he lose his way you know why was he frankly so stupid about this debate and I think 17:01 but I think that tells you a lot you know because he then went on Fox News and he kept on telling them that he'd won the debate and you know all the polls say have won the debate and they couldn't they couldn't actually correct him but I think there was that it's a bit sort of like you know Grandpa don't you know who's going to tell Grandpa sort of thing it was really it was really difficult to listen to because they're all nodding along having previously said what the was that about you could see that even before the debate completed because all of Trump's surrogates and the kind of like Maga Twitter crowd were all like half an hour 40 minutes before the debate concluded already preparing a narrative that it was a moderation problem exactly that it was ABC that the the the moderators on ABC were factchecking Trump aggressively and not doing the same to to Harris and of course which was true ironic it was true but then again if one candidate is literally in every single answer then then in and the other one is being yeah sometimes kind of spending the truth a little like alll politicians do but operating on a totally different moral plane on that don't be surprised if your 18:04 if your guy is fat check Mo that is going to happen actually the point they picked up on was the fact that she talks about him saying bloodbath as if he's going to sort of create World War III and they do have a point there which is that when he used bloodbath it was very much in the context of you know Automotive tariffs right and nobody actually thought that he was you know running around with a chainsaw and maybe the moderators could have stepped in on that I I agree with them actually on that one but it's kind of a one-word thing at that point yeah also you've got Donald Trump junr now out and about and what he's trying to do is to recast this is just once again leftist media pundits are out there saying he did disastrously but look at swing voters they're telling us that Donald Trump did much better than Kamala Harris last night and they've got Cherry Picked two or three quotes from The New York Times where you know undivided voters not so sure unded undecided Vo which is all the Merit of any Vox pop hasn't it where you know you never know how many people you've spoken 19:04 to but they have selected two or three quotes uh in the paper which sort of you know suggests that but is still true I mean the weird thing is okay I think Don Jr um belongs to as we were saying the kind of the rumble Brigade and they are so far down their Maga Warren now we don't actually we don't actually know if they're still in touch with kind of normal Underside Americans but I'm sure there were you know normal undecided Americans who saw in that debate Trump's strength you know anger can be strong and the look on her face could be condescension I got contacted by two or three friends over there one Republican who said you know she's wiping the and came out with a much higher opinion of Harris than when they went in they remember Harris from 2019 as a very left-wing candidate when she was trying to run for the Democratic nomination and thinking but they were presumably Highly Educated say how many information right 20:03 yeah why you say you say I only mix with the Le no no of course not no no yes of course it's going to be that sliver of Voters in Pennsylvania or Georgia you know those are the two states that matter most but the seven swing States I mean think how you know there's there's one County eie in in Pennsylvania sort of um for endlessly exactly which is like the the Swing Swing you know County in the swing state irie Pennsylvania and it's interesting how many appeals in that hour in that debate there were to the people of Pennsylvania on fracking he had to carry on saying she's against fracking in Pennsylvania and she had to say I'm really Pro fracking in Pennsylvania it's almost like they were honing in brought number of Polish Americans who live in Pennsylvania exactly you know it's it's so incredible how a national debate watched by we don't yet know but let's let's guess somewhere between 70 and 80 million people is still actually talking to a few tiny communities in the Rust Belt it 21:04 would be very interesting to see what Harris does next right in terms of how she capitalizes on the momentum that she will get from this and the positive press that she gets from because I mean obviously they had a plan even immediately after the debate because obviously a debate it's not really about the debate as such it's about the narratives which emerge from the debate the media narratives right and so as soon as it was over they do two things to successfully try and rest control the narrative they announce Taylor endorsement which obviously doesn't happen by accident it's like been coordinated and planned to happen exactly then and also they challenge him straight away to a second debate which gives the impression that they won and that they're confident about it then the question is is whether you know I personally think we've talked about it on the show this week I think personally think that her post convention strategy has been flawed in the sense of keeping her quite hidden away not doing interviews when allowing Trump to dominate the airwaves consistently is a mistake particularly when you consider the number of American voters who want to know more about her and feel confused about who she is and what she stands for 22:03 I think a successful debate means that she's get to be any better in a one-on-one um you know sort of confrontational interview you have those particularly but but it' be interesting whether they readjust that strategy or actually now double down on it because they think that this they've got this success from the debate and they don't need to do which I actually think would be a mistake so do you think that I mean this is the thing that I was kind of wrestling with last night when I saw that quote uh from Fallon who's the kind of longstanding kind of democratic medor operative who's the comm's director for uh kamla Harris now about Bring it on Bring on another debate is he serious yes would would you do another debate because well would you you've had total success you've wiped the floor Trump will learn from it isn't there a risk so Trump has already answer this okay so he was offered on Fox News the three dates that she's suggesting I think it was one in Arizona in October another date in Georgia another date in is it Nevada you know or not North Carolina I think it is 23:03 would you do any of those and it would be with you know two commentators two two sort of moderators from Fox News not kind of fox fox Marthur and Brett and he immediately went oh no I wouldn't do it with Marth and Brett I don't like them i' do it with Jesse because he thinks I won the debate I mean you get inside his mind so quickly he only wants to be moderated in another debate with somebody who he thinks essentially can manipulate well if he's if he is doing that and just only wants to hear from people who think he's one who is the person in the campaign who says Donald that was a show last night presumably no one right presumably nobody nobody dares tell the emperor he has no it doesn't have to be in the campaign I mean as you pointed out Chris Christie who helped him prepare in 2016 for the debates went on air today I mean obviously he now hates Trump and he said himself against him on you know as a president Presidential nominee but he's basically said fire fire anyone who was you know 24:02 part of that campaign it didn't work whoever did debate prep for Donald Trump should be fired uh he was he was not good tonight at all and what Harris did was what she had to do which was to prove that she belonged on that stage she has a voice that wants to try to unite the country and Donald Trump spent more time talking about people eating pets people um at his rallies and whether he had more or less than he did about the economy yeah that was Chris Christie say in no uncertain terms that Harris had been brilliantly prepared and Trump was useless I mean that that goes to the Nugget doesn't it of something that we always ask ourselves with Trump and and we haven't yet mentioned I think one key element of this which is that he pretended that he had been ironic when he conceded last week that the election had been lost by a and I guess the question that we keep coming back to is does Trump know like 25:03 does he know things are a liive that's what I'm talking about with about disappearing down the rabbit hole that he's RAB Hol he himself has created and yet he finds himself lost it does he know he lost the election I think he probably does does he know that he lost the debate I think he probably does does he keep on polishing the you know truth to a place where he he has convinced himself that it's absolutely right hly I've been asking question for years eight years and I still don't know the answer to that I think he convinces himself that whatever he says is true he creates his own reality and he creates his own reality she was brilliant on that she said he's been fired by 81 million people and he's having trouble processing it she sounded like a very kindly sort of counselor in an old people's home you know who was saying he thinks he's Napoleon let's just give him a hat and leave him to have his supper I thought her tone on those sorts of things one of the smartest things about it because it was so subtle I mean the other thing I mean just in terms of the stuff that really matters I mean for us 26:04 on this continent I mean there again could not have been a Starker illustration of the potential two paths that NATO and Europe might experience I if you're sat in any European Capital watching that last night Trump has not moved in I mean all of these people like I mean Robert genrich who's saying he would support Trump and trust and all these you know this is something that conservative leadership candidates are being asked at the moment who you vote for I mean well yeah but and how anyone who actually professes to say that they CLA they care about European security or Ukraine could watch that debate last night and go yeah I would vote for Trump if I were an American I mean they're lying lying it becomes a question for our leaders now whether it's Boris Johnson or Liz truss or whoever leads the conservatives next are you prepared to support a man who doesn't think Ukraine should win this war he was asked Point Blank would does he want Ukraine to win the war and he refused multiple times to answer apart from saying that he would bring the war to an end as soon as possible which we know means caving into everything that Putin wants why on 27:02 Earth are any of the Tory candidates commenting on it it's a matter for America it's a matter for the American people to decide who their president is and in Britain because of our special relationship we will work with whoever is elected president that is why roon soel is getting no votes in the conservative party leadership but that but that is the position they should adopt there it's ridiculous to start saying hang on I I don't know that I agree with that actually since when do we take interfere in other people's elections oh all the time I mean frankly well in the sense that I don't we don't say whether we want macron to win the presidential election or somebody else no but we ask the question as journalists we ask the question we say could you support a man who believed that Putin had as much legitimacy in the Ukraine war as Ukraine as as zalinski we would ask that question and I think it should be a fairly easy one for any conservative leader to say this troubles us why should they say that no they should say that but were they but they they don't need to endorse they go one 28:03 step further and endorse a candidate that's ridiculous it shows the extent to which I mean in the in in the middle of a conservative party leadership election it shows how much they think their own Grassroots or at least a significant portion of it have moved to the right and to a particular bit of right as well bit of the populist right that that is even a question because you know the conservative party from 10 years ago actually when Trump first ran I mean you had Cameron who was prime minister then criticizing Trump directly the Republican party of McCain and the conservative party of Cameron were actually on a very similar foot very similar and and now they're very Divergent it just shows how far things have moved meanwhile closer to home from our home correspondent from our home correspondent this is London labor Rebellion not many dead is that sort of fair reading of it yes there was actually only one uh breaking of the whip one MP formally broke the whip as in voted against the government and this is obviously about we were talking earlier in the week about the winter fuel vote and the government got it through the majority of 120 was a conservative bro motion there were over 50 labor 29:04 extensions labor whips and labor sources briefing that most of these people had what they call a slip I.E they had permission not to be there but in the end just John tricket who's an old Jeremy Corbin Ally voted against the Whip and we wait to see whether he will lose the whip all the half dozen or so MPS who lost it over the child benefit limit yeah and new figures out today on the economy show that GDP has Flatline for a second month in a row stagnated which is obviously terrible for the country but in a weird way it is a kind of useful reminder right now for labor that things are not looking bright enough for them to Grant any concessions on any bit of the policies that they have started and so if there's one message that keeps coming through from Kiss Dharma it's you know this is the bingo card how many times can he mention that 22 billion pound black hole and today we've heard that this is is you know part of the whole sort of scenario of the economy which is still not 30:02 growing properly and I guess the question is how long will they be in this period where they can just say this is the problem we're trying to overturn 14 years of stagnation 14 years of disaster 14 years of Tory mismanagement before it starts becoming a labor problem so I bumped into a senior labor Pier on the tube uh this morning coming in who was saying it's all very well what Kama is doing but there is no narrative being told about what the next three or four years look like it's all very well to say we've got to have pain now we've got to go through this suffering but he needs to be sketching out what the sunny up PLS look like give us a political Narrative of where we're going as a country and what this is leading to and this person said this was a a failure of starma so far he's doing well this person said looking Prime ministerial which kind of thought was a sort of damning with fake praise to say he he looks Prime ministerial um but the 31:03 feeling was that you know a Blair figure would have sort of or a Cameron would have said this is where we're going and the feeling I think that apparently a lot of people feel is that isn't being done I think I think that's um exactly right in one in the sense that he will need both that sense of narrative as to where we're going both to the country but crucially to the Parliamentary labor party which relates to what's just happened so I mean in answer the question of how long they can keep blaming the Tories I mean the truth is like forever I mean in the sense least 13 years yeah exactly so you know John Major in 1997 was still talking about the winter of discontent in 1979 labor MPS will still be talking about Liz truss in like the 2030s like that will that will just happen but I think the reason this vote this week kind of matters is it reminds us of two things one it's like we need to reinvent what parliamentary Jeopardy is or get used to what parliamentary Jeopardy is right over the last 10 years we've got very excited how the blood rush the Sugar Rush of you know votes in Parliament potentially being kind of existential 32:02 for a government right that that could bring them down now got major government with majority of 170 like you know they they will probably not lose a single vote in this Parliament if they do it's because starm has done something really Sho and it is a remarkable thing actually that there was only one MP who actually rebelled you know however many the exension was in the end to have one person who's put themselves on the outside is extraordinary but that that's the point is that what has definitely happened despite the fact that no one actually really put heads above the parit it is absolutely true from talking to labor MPS there are a lot of really pissed off labor MPS about it they feel hurt by it I was told yesterday there were some MPS in the lobbies voting for it crying about it and they have number 10 and number 11 have burnt up quite a bit of Goodwill in that regard and what it what it shows is right is that these labor mpes particularly the new ones they do not have a lot of capacity or a lot of appetite for potentially quite a lot of the stuff that is coming down the line if R Reeves is to be believed which is to say there are more tough measures to come right labor MPS don't go into politics to do this stuff so in order 33:06 for the government to keep persuading them to do it and of course they have a lot of capital still in the bank to do it but in order to kind of soften that for labor MPS and not to burn up more Capital they need to do what you said John which is give them a sense of okay this is now but where are we going in years three four and five when things are tough and we need to give a sense to you lots of new labor MPS who by the way have tiny majorities of what we're going to do to help you save your seats I mean it it does presumably put more pressure on her in this October budget to actually think about borrowing to invest right I mean that's a big subject for another day we'll come back to it I'm sure but you would have thought that despite all this talk about you know we have to stick within our fiscal rules fiscal rules fiscal rules which is something they've imposed on themselves any brown I at this point and anyone who's kind of joined the party thinking we are here to affect change through you know big spending of of stuff that the country needs they will 34:04 be putting the pressure on her now to say oh for God's sake borrow a bit more spend a bit more show people where it's going and you will come out of this you will merge from this with a much healthier labor party and Country I I don't think that's going to happen I think it's going to be hair shirt hair shirt hair shirt we've got to be tough we've got to be you know clamped down on this stuff Sunny up lands to come but that's the bit that they haven't sketched out and the lack of a story to tell the MPS to tell the British people about why all this is happening is pretty vague at the moment we'll be back tomorrow will we the three of us again was it been fun we are we all going to be back tomorrow I don't think so no I think this was a oneoff you know rather fed up that we're all three together good old no no I'm thrilled about it I'm sad that we're not going to be together tomorrow and we are like not in McBeth we three shall meet again we'll see you tomorrow bye-bye bye tomorrow and tomorrow and tomorrow not my breath the news agents this is a global player original podcast [Music]

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