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US ELECTION CHOICE OF TIM WALZ TO VP TICKET! Katie Couric: With Tim Walz on the Ticket It’s Happy Warriors Versus a “Demented and Deranged Man” PLAY YOUTUBE VIDEO Original article: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cP_83xClt2I Peter Burgess COMMENTARY Peter Burgess
With Tim Walz on the Ticket It’s Happy Warriors Versus a “Demented and Deranged Man” Katie Couric 319K subscribers ... 82,884 views Aug 7, 2024 I spoke with political commentator Charlie Sykes about the impact adding Tim Walz to the ticket will make for Kamala Harris, why Walz feeds into happy optimism, how he compares to J.D. Vance, the different vibes of the campaigns, why Harris didn't pick Josh Shapiro as her running mate and how that will impact the election, especially when it comes to Pennsylvania. Sign up here for daily email updates from me, Katie Couric, on the news that matters most to you: https://katiecouric.com/wake-up-call/... Subscribe to my channel: / katiecouric Follow me on Instagram: / katiecouric Subscribe to my podcast: ApplePodcasts.com/KatieCouric Follow me on Facebook: / katiecouric Follow me on Twitter: / katiecouric Transcript 0:00 so Charlie I guess I can say just quickly what do you think of the selection of Tim Walls the governor of Minnesota as kamla Harris's vice presidential pick well when I first heard it yesterday I admit I was very surprised I thought that Josh Shapiro was the the obvious choice but um it has been an amazing roll out he's a very very impressive guy um he's he's in my home state of Wisconsin right now up in oakair and a few hours ago I got a call from from a reporter who said hey our signal may break up because I'm I'm in traffic here I'm I'm in Block traffic trying to get to this rally and I thought okay so you're in traffic in oakair Wisconsin that's kind of a tell so the fact that and this is kind of a HomeField Advantage for him but but I think that uh what you saw in that rally in Philadelphia what you're seeing today is an indication that he's generating an awful lot of enthusiasm for now for now because there there are some caveats coming okay so I'll I'll bite what are those caveats what do you think is going 1:05 around the corner that potentially is problematic for the ticket well first of all I mean number one we all ought to remind ourselves that the number two uh pick on the ticket very seldom actually makes a difference people tend to vote for the top of the ticket it's very hard to come up with an historical story of where it was really a a game Cher that's number one number two I would argue with you Charlie that Sarah Palin was ultimately pretty damaging to John McCain's candidacy would you not agree I would agree but I would also agree that that she she uh she kind of laid the the groundwork for Maga so but I mean in terms of a game Cher for the outcome of of the election they generally don't have that much of an impact I think JD Vance um may prove to be a negative for Donald Trump uh Tim Walls may prove to be a positive I mean the other just just cautionary notes out there is that um he's untested in the National stage and a lot of Governors have a hard time scaling up uh you know it's one thing to 2:08 be the governor of a state now suddenly the spotlight is much brighter however he brings to the ticket something very very interesting um I know that there's going to be a lot of talk about how Progressive he was as Governor he was actually much more Centrist as a congressman but I do wonder if that's the way he's going to be seen by voters who are being introduced to him because and I I'm being sort of Trashed by right-wing social media about this but he reads moderate and by that he mean I mean you have the you have the personality the biography the communication skills he's he's normal he's extremely likable he's a national Guardsman a high school coach he's a hunter he he looks like you know if you're in the Upper Midwest you look at Tim Walls you say I know that guy he looks like and kind America's dad right 3:02 right and I and I think that in a race about you know you know people like us we tend to nerd out and think it's going to be about policy it's going to be about issues and there are some fundamental issues but it's also about personalities and perceptions and he's likable and he's a happy warrior and I think it feeds into this optimism as opposed to are we going to have four more years of Maga ugliness and let's talk about sort of his Progressive record as Governor because I think some of the things it's my understanding some of the policies he put in place Charlie are actually in line with a a lot of people's thinking for example he is very positive with lgbtq issues he talked about yesterday in Philadelphia when a gay student came to him in high school to start a gay straight Alliance he said I'll be your fac faculty advisor or whatever um he 4:03 did give free School breakfast and lunch uh to kids in his State you know I think most people are like that's good I don't think they read it as Ooh Progressive what are some of the things in his track record that might turn off moderate voters because so far I haven't heard a lot of them well I don't know again how voters are going to react to all this let me just tell you I mean from from the Trump uh point of view what the Republican Playbook is going to be I mean they're going to throw a lot of stuff at him uh they're going to uh you know talk about um the riots that took place in Minneapolis I wanted to talk to you about that but let's let's take put that aside for now Charlie tell me some of the other things that you think they'll attack well I think that you know um you know again I'm not sure that how many of these things are actually going going to stick um and and I said they're going to try to tie him to soft 5:02 on immigration soft on crime uh kind of a nanny State Governor uh things like the the the free you know lunches for kids I don't think are going to play um but there are some sound bites where he talks about you know one man's socialism is another man's you know neighborliness they're going to try to weaponize all of all all of that um I do think that uh while the you know the you know many of his social positions will play well with the Democratic base remember he's added to the ticket because of of his appeal to White rural voters and you know things like the trans issue don't play well in rural Minnesota and they don't play well in rural Wisconsin now in the end I don't know that any of that matters because I think he brings something else to it but the Republicans were happy yesterday morning when they heard it was him not Shapiro because they do think that he's out of the mainstream and he does have this 6:03 Progressive record but the question is most Americans don't know who he is and he's going to be introduced and I think you know you put your finger on it he's sort of like everybody's dad he's humorous he's likable he has a way of explaining these issues in a way that is not it's he's not scary let me put it that way he's not scared and the contrast between him and JD Vance because this doesn't take place in in in a vacuum J JD Vans is is D he's he's um I I I think kind of stiff uh he's weird walls is natural funny authentic and normal so when they get together on that stage and they debate he you know JD V say will you pass this particular mandate for clean energy and I think Tim Walls is going to say you know what's wrong with clean energy 7:00 you you have Donald Trump trying to make him out to be a communist people are going to see him on television and they're going to say is this a radical dangerous communist and I think he's going to be able to finesse that I but again we're on day two and we just don't know and I want to I you have balloons I don't know how that happened but I was gonna ask you about um the fact that he's a gun owner uh I think that might I don't think it's enough to necessarily mitigate this reputation as a progressive but that is something that kind of balances things out slightly don't you think Charlie well exactly because basically what he's saying is look I mean you know part of these ideological debates are not about what position do you take it's who are you do you relate to me do you despise me are you somewhat alien to me he is not a a coastal Elite he's guy who says what do you mean I'm coming to take away your guns I own a gun I own a dog I go 8:04 and I hunt I do these things I have serve my country I've been in the military and I think that again you know it's untested we've seen this before um and we'll have to see you know how it all plays out but um I I I I think he brings an unusual skill set to the table I I want to talk about what you brought up earlier which I was going to ask you about anyway Charlie was the riots that occurred in Minneapolis following the murder of George Floyd local officials wanted to bring in the National Guard uh Governor walls I guess I I'm not sure if he did bring in the National Guard but he was slow he ultimately did but so he's been criticized for being slow to respond I guess there were a lot of businesses that were damaged or destroyed in Minneapolis and some had suggested suggested a more immediate muscular response by the governor would 9:03 have prevented some of those things from happening um clearly that is going to be a vulnerability for governor wal talk to us about how that is going to be used by the Republicans and by Donald Trump and JD Vance and their team well now that's going to be a major theme um you're going to see the pictures of the burning cities now what what's interesting is that you have a similar issue in Wisconsin um I I see I see that the former governor Scott Walker has been tweeting out pictures of the riots in Kenosha Wisconsin and the the riots in the burning in Minneapolis and they're trying to link those together um I think it was Trump who said that walls is trying to turn Minnesota into Mogadishu so they're going to try to link that to immigration as as well these were issues um and by the way the same criticism of walls was leveled against Wisconsin governor Tony for not acting in a more 10:01 you know timely manner in in kosha although he ultimately did these were issues for both men when they ran for reelection in 2022 and both of them were reelected so they've been litigated in those States they've convinced the voters that you know whatever happened back then um they handled it in a sufficiently muscular way um walls also took a very strong position against a referendum vote that the Minneapolis city council put on the ballot to that would in effect defund the police that's not exactly what it did it abolished the police department created something else walls was one of the first prominent Democrats to say no we need to reform the criminal justice system in police but that's going too far he's going to talk about that I think the key is whether and by the way um it's it is somewhat ironic for Donald Trump to be raising this issue of of violence when in fact he incited 11:02 personally incited a violent attack on the US capital that's going to be a push back but I think the larger question is whether or not people really want to relitigate what happened four years ago in Wisconsin and in in Minnesota or whether or not as kamla Harris and walls have been doing Shifting the focus to the Future are we going we're not going back and I think this is the big question I have about this election um is this going to be a a a forward-looking election a change election because not to get too uh historically wonky but you you remember uh there's been a couple of years a couple of Elections where there was this sense that we just have to turn the page 1980 um with with Ronald Reagan Ronald Reagan was part of the right of I think this the you know most Americans yet people were willing to overlook the ideology because they just wanted a change 200 eight another uh election 12:01 where Barack Obama there were a lot of negatives that you could bring up about things he had said things he had done positions he had taken and yet people really were in the mood to change the page and I have the feeling that right now what we're seeing at least raises the possibility that we're seeing that kind of an election rather than election sort of fought out on the trenches about what did you you know what was your policy on school lunches or the Forgiveness of students debt and all of those kinds of things I also thought it was interesting that they used the word Joy I think Tim Walls talked about joy and optimism and kamla Hara said we'd like to raise people up instead of put people down so I think they're really trying to show a contrast uh between sort of the vibe which is the current word of the day of both of these campaigns um I'm curious a lot of people are asking in the in the 13:00 question section why didn't Harris pick somebody who was a little more moderate to balance out the ticket um what are your thoughts on that well that was my reaction um yesterday you know when I said that I was I was surprised I thought that Josh Shapiro chicked ticked a lot of those boxes I do think that look uh K Harris has to do two things I mean number one she has to win the electoral college which is why I thought the Pennsylvania play was kind of a no-brain but also she uh has to convince the swing voters that she's not this dangerous radical that Donald Trump is portraying her is being I think he went on Fox news this morning and said she's literally a com or maybe that was Elon Musk I get them confused um said she was literally a communist which is ludicrous so I do hope that the ticket moves to the center I do hope that they reach out to centrus um and I there was a some disappointment at least in initially yesterday among never trumpers or some of those disaffected Republicans like are you talking to us 14:05 or are you just running a base campaign are you giving the progressive wing of your party a veto power which would be disturbing but maybe it's possible that by picking walls who again I think gives off moderate Vibes I think he oozes kind of common sense right right I I I think that that does it but also maybe it gives her a little bit more cover for her to Pivot to the center um that's I read that right I I mean she has taken some pretty uh you know pretty leftwing positions back in 2019 and and and 2020 and she's backed off from many of them and and hasn't really paid a price for it um but I think this makes it easier for her to do and you know again it what really matters is what she does and what she says and what the perception of her 15:01 is because that's what people are going to vote I mean you know a lot of people have been asking me today well well you know how is walls going to play and Ral Wisconsin I said well we'll have to find out we we don't know it's going well but let's put it this way there's no one in rural Wisconsin who would say I am really uncomfortable with KLA Harris I cannot vote for her but I'm going to vote for the ticket because of Tim Walls that just it just doesn't work that way so the whole ticket has to make that move some people are asking why uh vice president Harris well before I get to that I wanted to ask you about Pennsylvania because someone asked about that without Josh Shapiro is it still possible for the Democrats to win Pennsylvania after all he gave a very rousing speech despite the fact that he was ultimately not picked as VP and he obviously is going to be an enthusiastic campaigner um I guess it's Western Pennsylvania that is the concern uh 16:02 where does Pennsylvania where does this leave Pennsylvania now that Josh Shapiro is has is not the VP candidate well first of all that's a really really really good question because there's no mathematical formula that I know of that where the Democrats can win this election without winning Pennsylvania so um but yes the the the the the the quick answer is yes of course she can still win Pennsylvania I mean Pennsylvania um is still a closely divided State the advantage that Shapiro had was that he's won three consecutive Statewide elections he's got a 61% approval rating he won it re-election by 15 points but there's no guarantee that that translates directly into uh the the presidential race now the fact is what you saw last night was the fact that he's still fully engaged and is enthusiastically backing this ticket he will now as the governor of Pennsylvania be able to spend pretty much every single day in Pennsylvania campaigning for this ticket so uh no it doesn't take 17:05 Pennsylvania off uh the the table and obviously with Tim Walls she's looking for his appeal in more States not just in Pennsylvania but you know Michigan Wisconsin Minnesota those other states that are very much in play you think that President Biden still has some Mojo in Western Pennsylvania after he's the son of stranton um he played very well during the election do you think that he'll be used or is he going to help or hurt the ticket at this point oh I think that at this point he helps the ticket um now having said that I was one of those that thought that he should step aside and mean as a campaigner no no I understand I mean so but now that he has stepped aside you'll notice that his approval rating is is ticking up and I think people perceive him differently and so I do think he'll be able to go back to Scranton and play that working 18:04 class um you know middle class Joe kind of card again and I hope that he does because I think that he can be a significant player and I think that you're going to see um what his his campaign Mojo is very very shortly when the Democrats have the convention in Chicago because that first night he's going to be the featured speaker that's going to be quite a moment when the president of the United States comes out on stage to pass that intergenerational baton I mean I don't I can't remember exactly when you and I spoke Katie but I'm guessing that back then you know when we thought about that Chicago convention it was going to be this sort of grim funeral March right now it's going to be something you know very different but yes uh Biden can make a difference and I suspect he will two two other questions then I'll let you go one is going to take a bit of time but a lot of people are asking why kamla Harris has not sat down for any interviews you know this is frustrating for journalists 19:02 like me frustrating for other people uh I think President Biden did very few interviews it was very frustrating and I think it does the American public a real disservice um on the other hand you know president Trump you know I think she's probably thinking well is he G to do many interviews and his style he just rolls over anybody who tries to ask him a question so do you think she's well served to to Meet the Press if you will and face some tough questioning from people uh she has to do that there's there's no way around and I I think that's the real test this is the big question and you know when I've discussed the you know the honeymoon in the enthusiasm and all the things that are going on um I keep coming back to the big test is going to be when she sits down with a tough independent interviewer and she ask to answer questions when she is you know played clips of things that she said back in 2019 or 2020 how will she handle that 20:05 because I think there's been that suspicion in in the past that okay she can speak well at a rally but this is not her strong point so that's going to be a major test it's going to be a major inflection point in this campaign but having said that I also understand um how how much is on the plate right now I mean under how many days has it been since Joe Biden dropped out it's it's been about what two weeks or yeah a little over two weeks two and a half weeks during which she has had to stand up an entire presidential campaign choose a running mate seal the nomination um and master this sort of tide that she has right now so I think that she's still in the honeymoon period where she can say cut her some slack because she's doing stuff but um that won't last forever exactly that won't last forever um and uh again that's going to be a real test for her because 21:04 I think let's be honest about it one of the things that kept Joe Biden in the race for so long and so many Democrats were elected to see him step aside is kind of that lingering sense that maybe she you know maybe she's not going to do well in those interviews now having said that she has exceeded expectations in every other category but but I agree with you this is her big test and she has to do it absolutely has to do it and do you think we are ultimately going to see a debate between Donald Trump and kamla Harris he's now backed out of the ABC Arrangement which was uh you know In fairness done when Joe Biden was the candidate now he wants it on Fox a friendlier Network to his political ideology he wants an audience uh where he I think performs better with an audience and that clapping can influence viewers do you think they're going to figure it 22:03 out because she's saying she wants to debate him on ABC is this going to come to is this going to be a deadlock and there not there won't be a debate at all that certainly that is certainly possible I mean you know one of the the the factors of this campaign that we've never seen before it's it's only a 90-day campaign I mean this is like it's like massive speed dating everything is going to happen very very quickly so um look uh he does not want to debate her at the moment um because I mean he was you know planning all this time that he would be on the stage with with Joe Biden uh she is a skilled uh debator uh she is a former prosecutor I don't think he wants to to to debate her on the other hand if your entire theme is I'm the strong man they are weak how do you run away from a debate that looks cowardly it looks weak it goes right to your branding so these are the the irresistible Force the immovable object 23:00 kind of moment where he knows he can't look cowardly but he knows that it would be dangerous for him to debate her and so this back and forth um I I don't know I mean the the ABC thing didn't play well she would be I think foolish to go into the you know Fox News with the rally type thing I mean why let him dictate it and by the way can I just mention something before we we we move on it's we we always need to need to keep this split screen in mind I know we we we say it but all the focus on walls and and KLA Harris meanwhile while all of this is going on Donald Trump continues on a daily basis putting out this gibbering nonsense well that was gonna be my next question I'm sorry okay I should have anticipated that no that's okay that was gonna be my next question because earlier this morning you were speaking on Morning Show about former president Trump and you said quote can we just say it this man is not well so while we're talking about the Pol 24:05 policies of the democratic ticket take a deep breath and recognize that the former president of the United States is having a cognitive mental breakdown in real time in plain view um oh yes those are pretty strong words Charlie tell me why you said that well in part it was because of this bleet that he put out yesterday where he's uh he's engaging in this bizarre conspiracy theory that somehow that Joe Biden is going to crash the Democratic Convention and want to take back the nomination that he was the victim of a unconstitutional coup I mean this is the kind of thing that if somebody was shouting this on the street corner you would probably call 911 if it was a relative you would ask for an intervention of some kind not to mention this comes just a few days after his bizarre birtherism 25:00 2.0 racial attack on her and the fact that he's said at the National Association of black journalist just for our viewers that kamla Harris was not black or be has become black recently I mean what the hell and and and I actually and this is a sincere question I put this out on whatever Twitter is called these days could somebody explain to me why he has decided in post after post after post to give the nickname of K kambla and at first it looks like it's a typo but apparently it's intentional and we know that Donald Trump always likes to give these nicknames I I want someone to explain why he thinks that's clever what is it supposed to remind people of Obama is it some sort I just honestly the part of of the weirdness of our year of of our political world is this asymmetry where the Democrats go on and they they 26:01 act like quasi normal politicians and if they slip up they're called on it where meanwhile over in the corner you have the former president of the United States with these just lunatic Rants and he has spent years now saying we can't have an old guy with signs of cognitive decay in the White House well Joe Biden's gone now so who's the old guy in the race who's the guy with the cognitive decline in real time and I think that part of what's happened is we've become we've become numb to this so we've normalized this this stream of Consciousness gibberish in these conspiracy theories as well that's just Trump being Trump well no this is this is a man who wants to be president of the United States again but Charlie I guess the question is then I'll let you go is this does not you know you can talk about it you can say it's a cognitive mental breakdown that he's unhinged I was watching what 27:00 he was saying on Truth social during the rally in Philadelphia and yet do you think it alienates any of his supporters and I mean it doesn't really matter what he does yeah well it it should and and and again we need to break down uh the electorate into the hardcore meab Bas supporters where it doesn't matter what he does I mean look he's a convicted felon he has been found he said I can shoot somebody on Fifth Avenue that 201 well you could rape someone in the middle of Fifth Avenue and it apparently will not make any difference but those are not the voters who will decide the outcome of the 2024 election there is this group of I think either soft Republicans um you know moderates whatever who are watching all of this and again the split screen um you you talked about the happy Warriors before uh if if if we get to November and it's the choice between happy Warriors normal people versus this DED and deranged man 28:05 who tried to overthrow the government um I think there you know there are millions of Voters who are going to say either I'm I'm going to vote for her or I am just not GNA vote for four more exhausting years of Donald Trump so yes I do think but I also think that it's important for us not to exactly and and do you think obviously JD JD bance has not had a particularly successful few weeks do you think there's a chance that Donald Trump will panic and get rid of him well this look Anything could happen in 2024 right I mean right any Anything Can Happen um I think that's extremely unlikely but it was a uh it was a terrible choice and for all of the sort of hand ringing about Tim Walls and I've engaged in some of that myself uh there's no question about it they're not 29:03 even remotely comparable JD van Springs very little to the ticket and by the way just since we're talking about what's going on today so kamla Harris and Tim Walls have drawn these massive crowds in oair for some reason they've decided to have JD Vance Shadow the campaign and so he is in oair Wisconsin as well and quite quite frankly it looks like his the crowd that he drew looks like a tailgate party in Wisconsin standard by Wisconsin standard there are more reporters than people it's what the Trump campaign wanted it is embarrassing the last thing on Earth that they should be doing is setting up a contrast between JD Vance and Tim Walls right now and we know how deeply Donald Trump cares about Optics and crowd size I mean that's a continuing theme can I ask you one more quick question Charlie before you go only because I know that this has been discussed and you have strong feelings about it and one of my viewers asked was Josh zapiro not picked because 30:04 he's Jewish and I have heard people theorize that perhaps the the Harris team doesn't want to put Israel and Gaza front and center in this conversation uh a friend of mine Brian Goldsmith who I know you know said that Tim Walls has actually more pro-israel views than Josh Shapiro but can you kind of unpack that for us well um I am I'm actually trying to unpack that for myself um because that was one of my concerns um you know yes yesterday morning what happened why did they not piss pick Josh Shapiro there was a vicious um and in many uh cases malicious attack on Josh Shapiro for his position on the Middle East and his position on the student protest it was interesting because um all of the candidates were Pro Israel Tim Walls has a very very solid record Being pro-israel Josh Shapiro had been very 31:03 very critical of Benjamin n yahu and yet it was only Shapiro who was tagged as genocide Josh and so the concern was you know um did did the Harris campaign blink did they give into what appeared to many observers to be at least you know tinged with anti-Semitism the more I hear about it the less I think that happened um but you're going to hear discussion about it um I don't think that Tim Walls represents a dramatic change in the party's support for Israel um and simply because there are some bad actors out there I don't think that that was a factor and of course KLA her can point to the fact that she's married to a Jew so you know how can you really tag her with being hostile to uh to to Jews but that was one of the concerns out there and I have to say I'm feeling better about that um I'm hearing more 32:01 reporting you know from Politico and the New York Times that would suggest that there were other factors that were far more important which were what sorry I got well the Rapport oh excuse me God God bless you thank you I I I I think that that she was looking for somebody she had more rapport with uh somebody who is very very well-liked one of the things in politics is a lot of times you can be a successful Pol politician and people don't like you um it's pretty obvious now that people like Tim Walls that people on on both sides of the aisle his former colleagues in the house like him Nancy Pelosi um was uh endorsing him because they they wanted one of one of their own um I think that she saw somebody who was an effective campaigner also very on social media and you know he coined the whole uh Donald Trump is weird thing yeah and and I think that was very very has been 33:01 very effective I don't know if people are going to get tired of it but he seems to um he just has this Everyman quality I think you know and I think that's where where where I was thinking of like balancing the ticket like you need a Centrist um maybe the calculation was that the balance needed to be that you needed somebody from the beer track as they say there's the wine wine track and then there's the beer track there's the Highly Educated Coastal you know folks and then there's the guy that looks like you just met him at the hardware store and by the way I I said this yesterday and somebody said well it's very condescending to say this about the beard track look I am in Milwaukee right now I am in Wisconsin we say beard track that is not condescending that means you eat he curds Charlie you curds for crying out loud but I was thinking that well and even when he took a shot at JD Vance going to Yale you did feel this sort of middle of the country State School Vibe right at ju deposed 34:02 against sort of a more ivy league or sort of coal Elite Vibe well also the big divide in American PO is urban versus Rural right so she balances out she's Urban he's rural so that is a different kind of of balance and again no one knows how this is going to play out we are in day two um he hasn't been fully fully tested I've seen lots of Governors look good for a while you know as Rick Perry or Scott Walker or Ronda santz but he um he has an appeal that is um that is quite distinctive in American Poli he has an authenticity but also I think the short campaign Works in their favor because they have momentum and with this truncated period of time it doesn't lend itself to infighting to Big mistakes because there's frankly just not enough time right Charlie and they haven't peaked yet because they still 35:03 haven't had the Democratic National Convention I mean normally that's when you have a bump and you know you know think back to the you know the Milwaukee convention Donald Trump came off that very dramatic assassination attempt he had a more or less successful convention except for his his his his speech he was in this dominant position and yet he didn't get a bump he didn't get a post-convention bump well that's still ahead for the Democrats this uh democratic convention is going to I think embody a lot of the things that you've seen over the last two weeks that you're seeing on the road so what would have been I think kind of a grim event is going to be you're going to have all of this happy warrior energy on full display and I would not be surprised if she got a bump and we live in an era right now where you don't need to have an8 to 10 point bump to to change the game three four points particularly or one or two points in the swing States can be decisive and that's still to come for them well to be continue Charlie thanks so much for your time I always love talking to you I appreciate it and thanks to everyone for watching thank you any see you soon okay bye Charlie bye

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