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US POLITICS PROJECT 2025 Amanpour and Company: Kristin Du Mez: Project 2025 Will Redefine Constitution in Name of Christianity \| Amanpour and Co. Original article: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hkxH1qWZz2I Peter Burgess COMMENTARY Peter Burgess
Kristin Du Mez: Project 2025 Will Redefine Constitution in Name of Christianity \| Amanpour and Co. Amanpour and Company Jul 23, 2024 406K subscribers ... 121,753 views ... 3.2K likes #amanpourpbs The political blueprint for the next Republican president, known as Project 2025, has drawn criticism not only from Democrats but also from Donald Trump himself, who has called the 900-page document 'seriously extreme.' Yet the authors of the conservative playbook include some of his closest policy advisors, as well as organizations with Christian nationalist leanings. Historian Kristin Kobes Du Mez speaks to Michel Martin about the rise of evangelicalism in politics and the impact it could have on American democracy. Originally aired on July 23, 2024 Major support for Amanpour and Company is provided by Jim Attwood and Leslie Williams, Candace King Weir, the Sylvia A. and Simon B. Poyta Programming Endowment to Fight Antisemitism, the Leila and Mickey Straus Family Charitable Trust, Mark J. Blechner, the Filomen M. D’Agostino Foundation, Seton J. Melvin, the Peter G. Peterson and Joan Ganz Cooney Fund, Charles Rosenblum, Koo and Patricia Yuen, Barbara Hope Zuckerberg, and Jeffrey Katz and Beth Rogers. Subscribe to the Amanpour and Company. channel here: https://bit.ly/2EMIkTJ Subscribe to our daily newsletter to find out who's on each night: http://www.pbs.org/wnet/amanpour-and-... For more from Amanpour and Company, including full episodes, click here: https://to.pbs.org/2NBFpjf Like Amanpour and Company on Facebook: https://bit.ly/2HNx3EF Follow Amanpour and Company on Twitter: https://bit.ly/2HLpjTI Follow Amanpour and Company on Instagram: https://bit.ly/3SaTUhk Watch Amanpour and Company weekdays on PBS (check local listings). Amanpour and Company features wide-ranging, in-depth conversations with global thought leaders and cultural influencers on the issues and trends impacting the world each day, from politics, business and technology to arts, science and sports. Christiane Amanpour leads the conversation on global and domestic news from London with contributions by prominent journalists Walter Isaacson, Michel Martin, Alicia Menendez and Hari Sreenivasan from the Tisch WNET Studios at Lincoln Center in New York City. #amanpourpbs Transcript 0:00 we're returning now back to the us where the political blueprint for the next Republican president project 2025 has drawn criticism not only from the Democrats but also from Donald Trump himself calling the 900 page document quote seriously extreme yet the contributors of the conservative Playbook include some of his closest political advisers as well as organizations with Christian nationalist leanings historian Christen coz dumain speaks to Michelle Martin about the rise of evangelicalism in politics and the impact it could have on American democracy Kristen cobz Dum thank you so much for talking with us once again happy to be here thanks for having me so I want to focus our conversation on Project 2025 but before we get into that I did just want to get your take on the Republican convention one of the reasons we called you is that we last spoke with you about your 2020 book Jesus and John Wayne and you argued that in that book you argued that modern American 1:01 evangelicalism has kind of replaced the Jesus of the gospels with an idol of kind of rugged masculinity and Christian nationalism did you see that playing out over the course of the convention week absolutely you know that really is the vision it's not a deep theological Vision it's a vision for a Christian America um kind of need to put that in in quotes Christian America a vision of the country that says this country belongs to some people but not to all people it's a vision of America that draws a stark boundary between Real Americans those who are on God's side who are trying to restore Christian America and enemies and threats to America to this vision for Christian America and that is a an ideology that has run through conservative evangelicalism you can see it also in in 2:01 conservative Catholicism in some places in the Pentecostal charismatic tradition uh that's really been cultivated for half a century now if you look back to the rise of the Christian right you can see this a very US versus them mentality that uh depicts kind of the the Christians ought to have control of this country and anybody who threatens that control is seen as an enemy and that's the kind of theology that plays very well to Donald Trump because he has promised to protect Christianity right his words he has promised to be their Ultimate Fighting Champion and to battle ruthlessly for you know presumably their Vision which aligns with his vision which is an open question but that's who he has promised to be for them and that is really um a key to understanding Christian support in this country for Donald Trump Trump they think he will 3:01 fight for them and he will give power to 3:05 them so tell me about project 2025 I 3:08 mean if people have been following the 3:10 campaign closely they may have heard of 3:12 this what what is it and why do you 3:15 think it's so important that we talk 3:16 about 3:17 it project 2025 is a lengthy document 3:21 around 900 Pages put together by the 3:25 Heritage Foundation and and then signed 3:28 on to by over a hundred conservative 3:30 organizations which essentially provides 3:33 Trump or the next Trump Administration 3:36 with a blueprint for policy proposals uh 3:40 and pretty much a conservative political 3:43 Playbook um although more extreme than 3:45 we've often seen in recent years uh but 3:48 it also brings together a um a proposal 3:52 to essentially restructure the federal 3:55 government and that's what's key to 3:57 understanding about U project 2025 not 4:00 just a policy Playbook it's it's also a 4:03 tool to completely restructure the 4:05 government to give more power to the 4:08 executive so we've already seen the 4:10 recent Supreme Court ruling that g 4:13 grants presidential immunity and here 4:16 we're seeing a Playbook that is 4:17 essentially going to hand considerable 4:20 power across the executive branch across 4:23 federal agencies and place that power 4:26 entirely in the hands of the next 4:29 president pres why why is this a a 4:32 particular concern of yours as a scholar 4:36 of religion and and theology I mean the 4:39 Heritage Foundation isn't a religious 4:42 organization why is it that you spent so 4:44 much uh focus in attention on this first 4:47 it's worth noting that many of the 4:49 conservative organizations that have 4:51 either contributed to or signed on to 4:54 project 2025 are distinctly Christian 4:57 organizations and you've got Christian 4:59 colleges like Liberty University and 5:02 Patrick Henry college and you do have 5:04 Dobson's uh Family Institute signing 5:07 onto this document so we have to think 5:09 in terms of Partnerships here and a key 5:12 person here a key figure is Russell vote 5:15 uh Russell vote actually uh uh is a 5:18 former Trump uh Administration official 5:22 in the office of um management and 5:24 budget and he also uh was the director 5:29 of the 5:30 that um wrote the Republican Party 5:33 platform right so there's uh very deep 5:35 ties in the Trump Administration and 5:38 close connections to Trump he is also uh 5:42 um self-proclaimed Christian nationalist 5:45 with very close ties to Leading 5:48 Christian nationalist voices in various 5:51 denominations across this country and 5:54 vote wrote the chapter on executive 5:58 power so here you can see the Christian 6:01 nationalist agenda is then going to be placed in the hands of an executive with unprecedented power and this is important because if you look at survey data on uh Christian nationalism what you see is that the majority of Americans do not identify as Christian nationalists the majority of Americans do not want a Christian Nation according to this framework um so democracy is not going to get them to their end goal but this kind of executive power grab May in fact accomplish accomplish what they are setting out to do it really envisions kind of a top to bottom overhaul of of the federal government what what are some of the things that it proposes first in terms of government structure uh really important here is it uh proposes essentially re defining thousands probably tens of thousands of federal workers as 7:00 political appointees and so the goal here is to install some people suggest 20,000 some as as many as 50,000 federal workers civil servants you essentially fire those who are currently Staffing federal agencies and replacing them with Trump Loyalists and in fact part of project 2025 is what people have referred to as a kind of conservative LinkedIn and so there's a a recruitment database and online training to train ideologically and in terms of practical skills to staff a new federal government with loyalists to Trump across all uh agencies and this includes the Department of Justice and this is a really key point to understand in terms of the repercussions here Trump himself has made very plain that he wants to weaponize the Department of Justice and seize control over operations and then use that to seek retribution against his 8:01 political enemies project 2025 gives him 8:05 the game plan to achieve that goal and 8:08 so that's what we have in terms of 8:09 government restructuring there's much 8:11 more on that front but then in terms of 8:13 policies we have things about uh 8:16 restricting the anti-abortion pill U 8:19 muff press stone for example withdrawing 8:22 FDA approval for that uh reinvoke the 8:25 The Comstock act going deep into 8:28 American history there which will 8:30 prohibit the mailing of uh abortion 8:33 pills possibly also depending how far 8:36 they take it U to 8:37 contraceptives uh those sorts of things 8:40 uh 8:41 anti-lgbtq legislation anti- Dei 8:45 proposals to prohibit the their use of 8:49 language of words in federal laws and 8:52 regulations things like abortion 8:55 reproductive Health gender identity 8:58 gender equity these sorts of of terms 9:01 are going to be cancelled and not 9:04 allowed in any federal laws or 9:06 regulations so it really is expansive in 9:09 scope in some of these um proposals 9:11 there really is an 9:13 explicitly Christian tone or Christian 9:16 nationalist tone in their mandate for 9:19 leadership for example in the in plans 9:21 for the Department of Health and Human 9:22 Services it emphasizes maintaining a 9:24 quote biblically based definition of 9:27 marriage and family as it states for the 9:29 sake of child well-being programs should 9:31 affirm that children require and deserve 9:34 both the love and nurturing of a mother 9:36 and the play and protection of a of a 9:39 father okay that is a point of view but 9:42 we have a very long established 9:45 principle here 9:49 of of avoiding the establishment of kind 9:51 of a state religion how would this pass 9:54 muster in the courts I mean the courts 9:56 have still 9:57 upheld these long held principles that 10:00 suggest that you cannot Advantage One religious view over others H how did how do they get around that yeah I'm really glad you pointed to that particular passage which could have some real implications obviously for same sex marriage for adoption uh even potentially for uh divorce and and so that's that's really key and it's rooting that proposal in uh what they claim to be biblical marriage a Biblical uh prescription for what marriage is and is not and there's another passage that is really important to understand the framework here the idea that the constitution guarantees the freedom or Liberty to do what one ought to do not what one wants to do and that really is foundation of Christian nationalism yes you are free to obey God's laws and we are going to structure this country around God's laws 11:02 and and then they redefine rather than uh the the right uh and to the pursuit of happiness they say it's actually the pursuit of blessedness and you are blessed when you obey these laws what are those laws well this is where you can look at the whole conservative agenda here it's going to be anti-abortion it's going to be uh anti-lgbtq uh and and so these rights do not exist Within their framework and so they are redefining our nation's Constitution reinterpreting it through this lens that the only rights that are guaranteed are those that align with their understanding of God's law I I think you still identify as a Christian would that be accurate yes I do I I'm just curious like why is this the version of Christianity that that is ascendant now when so many other people have a different interpretation of it so there are many people who have said are 12:00 saying um you know wait a minute this 12:02 does not align with how I understand 12:05 jesus' words in the gospels this is not 12:07 under uh align with how I I think we are 12:10 called to be faithful in this world but 12:13 when you uh offer voices of 12:16 opposition uh your uh chances are you're 12:19 you're going to uh run up against some 12:21 real opposition and many conservative 12:25 organizations uh are funded by powerful 12:28 conservative donors 12:30 and uh this is true in higher education 12:32 and this is also true in term in the in 12:35 the Christian nonprofit World there are 12:37 all kinds of pressures the Christian 12:39 Media world uh Christian music uh right 12:43 uh it's it's very hard to find a 12:45 Christian recording artist who will 12:47 publicly call out some of these things 12:49 because if they do their career is done 12:53 uh at least they're not going to get any 12:54 air time on Christian radio right in 12:56 terms of Christian publishing a a 12:59 multi-billion dollar industry we're 13:01 talking and I think people outside of 13:02 Christian spaces or conservative spaces 13:05 uh are not aware of this massive 13:08 industry and so much money is is U 13:12 Changing Hands here and within that 13:15 industry there are political orthodoxies 13:18 that you have to hold to and if you 13:20 cross any of those right you're not 13:21 going to get the book contract you're 13:23 not going to get the record deal and so 13:25 what we have is a kind of uh I mean IND 13:28 doctr ation may not be too strong of a 13:30 word but certainly the the cultivation 13:33 of one particular way to be a Christian 13:36 and and closing off many of these other 13:40 um understandings of what it means to be 13:42 a Christian in this country and in the 13:44 world today before I let you go there is 13:47 just one thing that that I'm sort of 13:49 just I still remain puzzled by and that 13:51 is former vice president Mike Pence 13:53 there is no denying that he was a man of 13:56 deep and sincere Faith Okay so I'm just 13:59 curious like why the treatment of 14:01 him isn't more resonant among other evangelicals I mean he's made it clear he was very badly treated I mean there are people calling for him to be killed Mike Pence is the perfect example I think of how um a lot of conservative Christians and a a large swath of conservative evangelicals have embraced a Christian nationalist agenda and within that Christian National ISM personal piety is not uh what what makes somebody a great leader not at all in fact that might actually work against the person in terms of their leadership capacity what they want is a fighter they want somebody who will fight their battles for them they want somebody who will take on the left the feminists the you know woke ideology and who will fight for them who will protect them and who will advance their aims and that is who Trump is and and that's who Trump promised to be for them quite explicitly 15:02 now back in 2016 uh it was kind of unproven territory at that time it wasn't quite clear if conservative Christians would Embrace a man like Trump who so clearly did not live up to any of their moral standards that they claimed to hold so dear this is the moral majority after all these were Family Values voters right and so Mike Pence was maybe a bit of an insurance policier wasn't quite clear that he didn't actually that Trump didn't need Mike Pence because they were after the fighter and um and Pence did not stand up and fight when it mattered for Trump when it mattered to overturn the election right and so uh Pence very much fell out of favor a lot of conservative Christians I know say oh he's a he's a good guy you know those who aren't rolling their eyes at him for being too weak might say he's a good guy but he's just not what this country 16:01 needs right now right we need a strong man we need somebody who will do whatever it takes uh to preserve this nation and to restore their understanding of Christian America is this a moment in time or is this something that is just has become such a feature of American Christianity that it is going to be a force for some time to come yeah it's it's both it's a culmination is what it feels like to me that uh these this agenda is not new these aspirations we can we can trace back to the the Heritage Foundation was founded in the 1970s and uh the Christian right has been advancing this kind of mission for Generations now um but this is very much a moment because they are now um poised to essentially take control of the country 17:02 and the Very mechanisms of our democracy and that is what is new here that is what is different and so we uh you know in the past sometimes you had Ronald Reagan uh winning the White House and the Christian right is celebrating and the the Heritage Foundation offers him a mandate for leadership and we've had that in the past but what we haven't had is this plan and a likelihood of them achieving this goal if they if they uh uh win the White House of completely restructuring our democracy completely restructuring our federal government and it's not clear what is on the other side of that it's not clear if we will have another election where we can just reverse things or if that puts us on an entirely new trajectory in this country and I think that's the real question when we look at project 2025 and when we look at the November election Professor 18:00 Christen Kus D thanks so much for talking with us thanks so much for having me [Music] [Music]

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