@Peterbnyc: Professor Sachs ... I cannot believe you are taking the position you are on support for Ukraine. I am reminded of America pre-Pearl Harbor! I would love to debate you!

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• a Ukrainian drone attack hit one of
• Russia's biggest oil refineries as well
• as a Russian drone Factory causing 12
• injuries Russian officials said on
• Tuesday according to the Associated
• Press now while this attack represented
• Ukraine's deepest strike on Russian
• territory it did not disrupt industrial
• production according to the reports
• support for us funding for Ukraine is
• waning as the war enters its third year
• a majority of Republicans now believe us
• funding for Ukraine's defensive war
• effort is too much a divide that's
• reflected in Congress where House
• Republicans have repeatedly clashed with
• a vocal more isolationist minority over
• foreign aid the US has cided with
• Ukraine from the start and has bolstered
• NATO by supporting Sweden and finland's
• entry into the transatlantic Alliance
• and it looks like the Biden
• Administration will be able to provide a
• fresh round of Aid to Ukrainian
• President Vladimir
• zalinski meanwhile op speaker Mike
• Johnson has begun publicly laying out
• potential conditions for extending
• military aid to Ukraine his current plan
• is to authorize the US government to
• seize and sell Russian assets that have
• been frozen since the start of the war
• and use that money to finance Ukraine
• Economist and Columbia Professor Jeffrey
• saaks joins us today to help make sense
• of the status of the war and this
• funding issue welcome Professor
• Sachs thanks you can't make sense of
• this it's a zoo uh if if uh I am just
• hearing now if the plan is to illegally
• seize Russian assets uh well kiss
• goodbye to America's uh role in the
• international monetary system there are
• just limits to what you can do though I
• I don't think our members of Congress
• really understand much about this so can
• you speak to what you think should be
• happening here obviously there is some
• friction Within the Republican caucus
• the Republican house has the narrowest
• majority in American history which means
• that descenders which are in the
• minority but which are present in the
• Republican Party unlike in the
• Democratic party for the most part are
• able to exert their will threaten to
• oust uh Mike Johnson the way they did
• Kevin McCarthy over this issue of
• foreign aid specifically aid for Ukraine
• what do you make of it well first of all
• this is purely money down the drain uh
• so if they want to rip up another $61
• billion which is not chump
• change they they seem intent on doing it
• but it will mean nothing except more
• Destruction for Ukraine the fact of the
• matter is if if you uh don't listen to
• the nonsense in our mainstream media but
• listen to your show and others people
• would know that uh this war has
• destroyed Ukraine and the longer it
• continues the less there will be of
• Ukraine it's it's very simple actually
• if this goes on longer Russia will
• capture more territory uh if it goes on
• long enough Russia will capture Odessa
• uh Kiev uh if if we continue the way
• we're doing uh and this is a this a
• Biden project that goes back uh 10 years
• now will completely destroy Ukraine so
• the idea that this is siding with
• Ukraine is
• absurd uh anyone who really follows
• events knows that we're not siding with
• Ukraine we have paid for hundreds of
• thousands of ukrainians to go to the
• front lines and die for uh more and more
• territory to be lost because the most
• basic point of this war which is that we
• overthrew a government in Ukraine in
• 2014 that wanted neutrality so that we
• could p NATO enlargement was Reckless
• stupid and doomed to fail and it failed
• now Biden is just trying to hide the
• failure to get past November but the
• failure is seen on the Battleground
• every day if the Republicans play into
• this it's unbelievable shame on them
• they're basically on the right side
• although Biden bludgeons them every day
• you'll be the one to lose Ukraine well
• well the truth of the matter is Biden
• has been a disaster for Ukraine for a
• decade the disaster is there in the
• grades of hundreds of thousands of
• ukrainians and lost territory this is a
• war that never should have happened it
• was about NATO enlargement where the
• Russians said no NATO on our borders and
• Americans who were following this like
• our CIA director uh Bill Burns who was
• then the US ambassador to Russia in 2008
• said this is crazy no way the entire
• Russian political classes against this
• but Biden and Obama and Hillary Clinton
• and Victoria newand Jake Sullivan Tony
• blinkin they just barged ahead they
• wrecked everything and now they want
• another $61 billion to get them past
• November it's it's a disgrace it's
• completely a disgrace to play Devil's
• Advocate let me you know give you the
• other side and then allow you to respond
• to that you know what do you say to
• people that maybe acknowledge there were
• certainly missteps with uh with the
• expansion of NATO and the provocation
• but nevertheless Russia chose to respond
• to that with an invasion um the
• situation in Ukraine is due to that
• Invasion and so what do you say to
• people who think well but we so we are
• now responding to that Invasion by
• funding not committing American troops
• but funding a resistance in Ukraine that
• wants to continue
• fighting well yeah the War Began 10
• years ago when Victoria Nan not only
• passed out cookies uh on maidan but
• engaged in in Insurrection to violently
• overthrow a government in Ukraine pretty
• stupid pretty stupid to uh have a regime
• change operation on a country with the
• 2,000
• uh kilometer border with Russia that's
• our American foreign policy that's when
• this war started this war didn't start
• in February 2022 it started in February
• 2014 It Started With newand It Started
• With blinkin It Started With Sullivan it
• started with Biden who was a key person
• in that whole thing and then the
• fighting went on for 10 years and then
• in December
• 2021 Putin said look stop the n
• enlargement we can avoid an escalation I
• talked to the White House at that point
• n we don't stop anything they just
• thought they had all the cards we're
• going to cut them out of the Swift
• banking system we're going to bring the
• economy to the knees bunch of nonsense
• by ignorant people and so Putin
• escalated he didn't start the war he
• escalated the war and
• within basically a week zalinsky said
• okay okay okay we can be neutral and the
• Turks mediated
• negotiations and then though the US
• government wants to hide all of these
• facts which are sitting out there for
• those who know where to find them the us
• intervened and told the ukrainians you
• keep fighting and we have we have our
• Senators who say this the best the best
• the money the money can buy because it's
• ukrainians dying not Americans they're
• weakening Russia well not weakening
• Russia but they are killing ukrainians
• so this is not responding to Putin's
• Invasion the war started 10 years ago
• and we kept refusing every offramp till
• this day Robbie you know you hear Putin
• say and if you listen every day we're
• open to negotiations and then these
• fools in the US government say there's
• no one to negotiate they don't want to
• negotiate and then President Putin says
• oh we we we we're open to negotiation oh
• there's no one to negotiate is what we
• hear from the US side this is just
• narrative it's destroyed Ukraine and
• they just rip up money like there's no
• tomorrow so another 61 billion and now I
• hear from from you that the the latest
• plan is to take the illegally
• confiscated assets of Russia because
• there's no legal basis to do this and
• use that that'll be really great for the
• International Financial system I'll tell
• you because these are people who don't
• think ahead one day they just improvise
• day by day and then they'll find out oh
• things don't work out so well for the US
• dollar for the US's Reserve currency for
• uh the US place in the world because
• these people are acting like clowns
• frankly day by day not thinking ahead
• doubling down on Lost gambles and every
• to tell a story so that they can get to
• the elections in in the way they see fit
• Professor I want to ask you about how
• the United States gets out of this now
• because I'm reminded of conversations
• that surrounded the war on Afghanistan
• for years which was that we shouldn't
• have gotten into it this is a mistake
• but now we' destabilized the country we
• are in Neck Deep we can't just stop
• funding and abandon this project and
• that's a hamster wheel of sorts right so
• there are some people that I think are
• going to listen to this and say well I I
• agree with with everything you're saying
• but what do you do at this point it's a
• you know is it just a sunk cost or is
• there some obligation to unwind this in
• a way that's responsible and doesn't
• leave ukrainians high and
• dry ukrainians are high and dry no
• matter what we do we've killed nearly
• half a million of them through this
• stupid project and the ones that that
• throw good money after bad are the ones
• themselves that are person personally
• culpable for this this is Biden's
• project so this is the first starting
• point you don't throw live good lives
• after those already dead and good money
• after bad when you have an absolute
• failure and disaster on your hands by
• the way this is like every American
• effort I'm old enough to remember
• Vietnam the same words said about
• Vietnam we do this over and over and
• over again in the US because our
• so-called leaders have no sense and they
• don't think ahead so yes we have to stop
• this but the one thing that we don't do
• and it's really a bit of a mystery to me
• it's the worst I've seen in my whole
• lifetime we don't
• negotiate does Biden call Putin say we
• need to talk no that would be weakness
• that would be appeasement they don't
• even have the idea that you negotiate
• anything and you know if you try
• everything by a military approach and a
• failed one and you do it in these proxy
• wars where it's the people themselves in
• these countries that are dying on the
• front lines and you don't know anything
• about diplomacy well you make a complete
• mess of the world and so the answer is
• the first thing
• is the US and Russia should talk to each
• other because there's a cause of this
• war and that's NATO enlargement and by
• the way that's no secret and that's not
• propaganda even the Secretary General of
• NATO Yen stoltenberg said that
• absolutely explicitly as did the top
• negotiator for zalinski David aramia
• this a war about NATO enlargement so why
• doesn't Biden call up Putin say you know
• what we got to stop the war and that
• whole NATO enlargement that I was party
• to going back to the 1990s and uh to
• 2014 coup and all that was a bad idea
• let's figure out how to stop the war
• recognize Mutual Security and stop the
• Bloodshed and massacres in Ukraine if
• Biden were really a acting like a
• president that's what he would
• do um it's been about a year since a
• group of uh economists um wrote an open
• letter about you um accusing you of
• denying the agency of Ukraine pedling
• Putin talking points all of those kinds
• of things um it's a year later how do
• you respond to them well I don't respond
• I tell them I told you so I told them so
• from the beginning that this would be a
• complete disaster for Ukraine people
• don't want to hear this they don't
• understand they don't know enough about
• American history I told them Ukraine is
• going to be like Afghanistan and boy is
• it like Afghanistan right now so they
• didn't want to hear that's not right
• that's not fair Professor sex I was
• telling them facts I was giving them
• some good advice they didn't want to
• hear that they wanted to hear about
• Victory Glory how Ukraine's going to
• succeed uh that great counter offensive
• all the rest all the
• baloney but I said from the beginning
• that this would be a disaster I said
• this is just the latest neocon debacle
• and I said explicitly it was going to
• leave Ukraine like Afghanistan and it
• was completely avoidable so that's what
• I tell them I'm sorry listen pay
• attention learn something that's what I
• say to them Professor Jeffrey Sachs
• thank you so much for joining us sun
• rising today we really appreciate it
• great to be with you thank
• you