Date: 2025-08-21 Page is: DBtxt003.php txt00002739
Social Capital Market
Markets are important ... this one is missing
Discussion with Chris Macrae and others about a global social exchange model
COMMENTARY
Peter Burgess
Peter Burgess
my guess: 1 can it be agreed that there is exactly one bookmark to where grameen intern alumni can join which your ning would maintain; I believe this is within mrs begum and mostofa's remit to ask yunus when he returns to dhaka at end of the month; since mrs begum would need to lead this request, if there's any doubt on who you at mficonect are could you make a one page summary - eg you could mention you were at one time the association formed with vidar at grameen america but putting mficonnect on ning was simpler or whatever is the way of clarifying that if anyone is trusted by all american and other interns as being in the centre of their clubs and aliumni knowledge and relationships network it is your group after several elapsed years and presumably many months of work at www.mficonnect.com ; frankly the reason why I suggest you make a one-pager as easy for mrs begum to remind yunus with is that over the years I know of about 8 different people yunus has asked to form youth clubs around him on; however I believe your group and the value now to uniting interns under one simple entry bookmark is simplest and doable now if its ever going to be done; I assume there is no conflict with eg your wish to connect grameen interns and eg sam daley harris's youth panel; ie it would be great if grameen could set a lead example of where its intern alumni find each other; then maybe other microcredits of the sort microcreditsummit was originally formed to study might ask for their own bookmark and club entry points;
if in technology terms anyone else was going to be asked to form the gateway entrance point to grameen interns it would be naila as yunus ceo responsible for helping any projects of his become worldwide networks, so her and mostofa's support is valuable (for example at one time mostofa did have access to all known emails of people who had ever been a grameen intern) incidentally mostofa recently became the first banagldeshi vilager to my knowledge ever to have been awarded a london university degree (something that makes yunus happy)
if what I have outlined in 1 raises questions in naila or mostofa's minds I assume they will tell us
2
I believe the purest and strictest definition of yunus (100%) social business model is
a) must have a transparent sustainability model - ie one where you can see why its as likely as any business to keep generating positive cashflow; but also one where there are no social ecological or other conflicts
b) must be owned by or in trust of the poorest (or those in most desperate need of its service purpose- so eg a youth job creation agency could be owned in trust of youth needing jobs)
c) it has no dividends because all of its surplus is reinvested in accelerating its purpose-driven goal
a non-controversial example of a social business is www.aravind.org the original end unnecessary blinndness model out of India which Larry Brilliant helped connect knowledge around; as you know it was also the green children's social business replication in bangladesh
it is my understanding, and this I know is controversial , that the only microcredits that the 1997 microcreditsummit were assembled to study were those constituted as social business- perhaps sam daley harris would like to qualify that statement; I am still trying to understand if there was a 1997 definition of what models qualified originally; attached is an extract from banker for the poor which I hope the special issue of journal of social business for microcreditsummit will begin with
back in june I asked zasheem as a matter of urgency to start publishing at the back of journal of social b8siness all recognised social busienss funds and to tier them by amounts such as over $50mn, $10-50mn, under $10mn
I am unclear why that didnt get started in the sceond issue at least with yunus' full listing of such funds which presumably would have attracted others to submit their applicationhs
to date outside microredit owners, the only fund that has in my view an absolutely transparent process of reporting its investments is www.danonecommunities.com which hosts an annual meeting of 2000 people to discuss progress of its constituents- these are the constituent social businesses as reported in april 2011 http://www.danonecommunities.com/la-vie-des-projets
grameen danone bangladesh - yogurt for infants extreme nutritional needs
la laiterie du berger senegal http://www.grameen-credit-agricole.org/en/content/la-laiterie-du-berger
1001 Fontaines Cambodia http://www.1001fontaines.com/
Naandi, India www.naandi.org
El Alberto Mexico http://www.danonecommunities.com/project/el-alberto
ISOMIR France http://www.danonecommunities.com/en/project/isomir?mode=history
5 more projects were named as nearing formation
I am aware my knowledge is imperfect and also eagerly awaiting news eg a youth gathering announced a major worldiwde fund last month- so happily corrected if people see gaps etc
without infprmation to the contrary I would assume that kiva and www.babyloan.org/fr are social businesses
chris macrae
www.economicscrisisunion.com 1-301 881 1655
From: Chris Temple
Hi Chris and Sami,
We can build a social business tab out of Mfi connect for those interested. I would like a simple list and descritpion of the top examples of sb to begin with.
Moreover has there been any progress in working with the grameen intern network to continue their engagement after the experience? We believe that Mfi connect could provide a great platform for this to occur. Please keep us posted as mostafa makes connections.
Best,
Chris
Sent from my phone
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> back- can we meet for a coffee - next week is good for me or early october; week after I am up in boston
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> situation around yunus changes every day depending who has last given him advice; before the mess in bangaldesh he could cope with making sense of much of the conflicting advisors; now, I am concerned he is completely exhausted but otherwise the trip was joyful
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> chris
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> dear sami
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> although I will never be an expert typoe 2 stockmarkets is probably my main agenda - 40 years ago dad in The Economist pointed out the conflict of stockmarets responsible for a nations saving becoming populated by global corporates who felt no responsibility for that place's youth development and jobs; logically without a type 2 stockmarket a place stops developing over time - and we see this colap[se of macroeconomics spinning pretty well anywhere youth is now rioting or underemployed
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> however I am mainly interested in the transparent maths these markets are certified as governing with as well as multi-win models; I am never going to chat up investors who need to come toigether or do the IT, and at the age I am well well gtravelled in asia I am never going to be in the field seeing whose end poverty projects are truly magic
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> I would be very much like to meet in DC any time after sept 14 as that will bridge my interviews with yunus in dhaka and my intervieuws with people at MIT , and we need to see if there is enough synergy or trust between our 2 life missions
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> after 4 years of searching through who wants to do what around yunus all I can really say is naila looks at how technology can help youth and women mediate multiwin models (so she visits hot centres of this like MIT when she isnt sitting next to yunus) and leslie is the soul in africa who most needs to hub the sustainable sort of stockmarket knowhow; I am sure you can each introduce yourselves if you want to
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> thanks for corresponding
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> Hello Chris,
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> As promised… please see the attached executive summary. It will give a better overview of the overall model and how it differs from the other social ‘stock’ exchanges emerging out there. There is a much more comprehensive model for a global social exchange, however for the time being, I have modified and customized it to suit a pilot project launching in one country (Saudi Arabia) as a test case.
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> Grameen Bank has some friends/companies here that it works very closely with, and they are also to be involved in the project – so its another reason they may find this interesting. In the future development of the project, assuming it is taken on by the Saudi govt, a consortium of consultants would have to come together to tackle various aspects of development. I had previously noted Grameen Foundation and Grameen Capital as two specialized entities that would be immensely helpful in taking on certain roles…
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> So please go through the summary, and then we can further discuss….
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> Best,
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> Sami Ahmad
> Director & Lead Consultant
> www.streetbank.org
> m: +966(0)500796233
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Hello All,
I’m new on this thread, and have been engaged in discussion with Chris about a global social exchange model. I’m trying to catch up with all the ideas being thrown around. I’d like to comment on three points I found in the thread:
A) Establish some kind of platform for investing in youth
Is there is business plan for this? Is it grant-based or social finance? How does it correlate to youth – in human development (training/education) or enterprise? A lot of questions here, but I think going through the pains of answering would help to focus this powerful idea.
A few years ago I advised an MF student chapter at Georgetown University – as a pilot project in setting the foundation of a social capital market that was powered by college students. Their dynamism, creativity, idealism, dedication, and energy are a powerful force if harnessed properly – and from an economic standpoint, its free labor which works towards making a market easier to operate. In a nutshell, student groups from the USA campus would collaborate with a college campus in a dev. country + an MFI. Local MFI staff would follow SOPs in making short films of clients to upload onto a portal (or even youtube). It would be packaged as an ‘IPO’. The financial product was structured as an equity share, or even convertible bond. Data to make projections would be bas don the LO interview. B-School students at the USA end would edit the video, throw in a nifty finc. Model, and package it like an IPO sale to fellow students – who would buy the shares. Over time a small market and secondary trading could begin among students across campuses based on reports of the viability of these microenterprises… long story short – we tried to emulate a capital market model + social investment bank across campuses where the students played all the roles from underwriting to selling and trading shares in real SMEs/MEs. I have attached the plan that won an award on campus for innovation. You may find something in it that could be useful for further brainstorming….
MFIconnect certainly seems like an ideal venue to evolve this idea further…
B) Catalog of social funds / stocks
Currently, there are a lot of divergent ideas and thoughts on what the ideal model should be. Rather than play out Grameen vs SKS or Compartamos model, why not build a screening tool which if popularized, can become a go-to reference point online for all interested parties to list their enterprises, and others to study their project briefs (detailing their business models among other things). In being objective about this, you do not have to eliminate 50% of the players in this field because they do not fit the mold of Dr. Yunus’ social business definition. Over time… as measurement systems become more prevalent (GIIRS, IRIS, ESG, etc.), and listed entities are required to report – then you have the data to show which model is actually more 1) financially sustainable and 2) impactful. It would be like a grand experiment, as well as putting Grameen folks at the hosting end of the portal.
C) After the tremendous global success of Grameen’s microcredit model, then social business ideals… it seems the natural progression for the ‘movement’ is the evolution of a social stock exchange. As you all know, Prof. Yunus has championed this idea for a few years now… my question is how come, with all its considerable resources, the Grameen network has not pursued actually establishing one?
Best,
Sami
From: christopher macrae [mailto:chris.macrae@yahoo.co.uk]
Sent: Monday, September 19, 2011 11:22 PM
To: Chris Temple
Cc: dkuts@irgltd.com; naila@teleconsultgroup.com; Sami; alexmsimon@gmail.com; mostofa12@yahoo.com; samdharris@microcreditsummit.org; zasheem zasheem; nazrulgb@yahoo.com; lesley.williams@the-hub.net; peter.ryan@microloanfoundation.org.uk; jeff.devlin@btinternet.com; estelle.eonnet@micious.org; Peter Burgess
Subject: actions deadlined by microcreditsummit RE: SOCIAL EXCHANGE
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STREETBANK_GUSEC_BusinessPlan.pdf
878K
Peter Burgess
Dear Sami
I have not been keeping up very well with the many threads of conversation that are curated by Chris Macrae, but I picked up on your message yesterday because bits of it are very compatible with some of the work I am doing. Rather than making this a very long e-mail message, could we have a telephone conversation at your convenience. My number in PA is 570 431 4043
Peter Burgess
@truevaluemetric
www.truevaluemetrics.org
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Peter Burgess
Meaningful Metrics for a Smart Society
twitter: @peterbnyc @truevaluemetric
www.truevaluemetrics.org www.truevaluemetrics.com
blog: http://truevaluemetrics.blogspot.com
blog: http://communityanalyticsca.blogspot.com
www.tr-ac-net.org (being phased out!)
mobile: 212 744 6469
landline in PA 570 431 4043
email: peterbnyc@gmail.com
skype: peterburgessnyc
Books: Search Peter Burgess at www.lulu.com
Hi Peter. Thanks for reaching out. Surely.. lets connect and explore possibilities. I am based in the Middle East for the upcoming months, before coming back to the US. Give me a few days to get back from travelling, and I’ll give you a shout. I saw your website…. Neat stuff.
Sami
Dear Sami
'I saw your website…. Neat stuff'
Thanks ... it is encouraging! But I feel the website shows my age ... I know what is possible these days, but no longer am anywhere near the cutting of edge of what technology can do ... and it seems technology is still accelerating in power and possibilities.
You may gave seen some of my Tweet flow in which I refer to a reform of the #capitalist_market_economy into a #value_market_economy or as I sometimes use #NuVME
I am trying to get the various issues associated with TrueValueMetrics accessible via the website, and reasonably well organized. It is taking time but there is some progress. It would be faster if the ideas were set in concrete, but they are evolving all the time ... as I think they must.
There are two key ideas (1) the idea of state, progress and performance which are similar to the balance sheet, profit and the profit and loss account in money accounting; and (2) the use of a standard value rather like standard costs are used in the corporate setting. By having multiple value standards it is possible to use the same system within different cultural settings.
I am fascinated by how much my set of ideas seem to be compatible with the ideas incorporated into the streetbank initiative.
I look forward to hearing from you
Peter
--- On Mon, 19/9/11, Chris Temple
On Sep 18, 2011 2:11 PM, 'christopher macrae'
> --- On Sat, 17/9/11, Sami
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> From: christopher macrae [mailto:chris.macrae@yahoo.co.uk]
> Sent: Saturday, September 17, 2011 4:41 PM
> To: Sami
> Cc: naila@teleconsultgroup.com; mostofa12@yahoo.com; dkuts@irgltd.com; lesley.williams@the-hub.net
> Subject: RE: SOCIAL EXCHANGE
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> --- On Sat, 17/9/11, Sami
> From: christopher macrae [mailto:chris.macrae@yahoo.co.uk]
> Sent: Friday, September 09, 2011 8:40 AM
> To: Sami
> Cc: naila@teleconsultgroup.com; zasheem zasheem; alexmsimon@gmail.com; christemple8@gmail.com; 'Halima Aquino' MIT Entrepreneur Alumni Club; estelle.eonnet@micious.org; mostofa12@yahoo.com; Eric Meade; samdharris@microcreditsummit.org
> Subject: RE: SOCIAL EXCHANGE
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> a lot of my stuff on type 2 stockmarkets is on paper or in the archives of the economiost; probably easiest if i guide you round tese at a meeting
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> ultimately literally every valuation, governance, bus model., professional monoply to rule (mba syllabus etc) measure invests or disinvests in the future of a place's productivity especially its youths productivity- this is pure maths!
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> accidentally yunus (or 16 decision culture of mrs begum) created the opposite way round investment bank investing in next generations future not just income generation of the vilage mothers
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> if any country only has capital markets that take peoples long term savings and give them to corporations believing they have zero responsibility for that places future development then you have a system that can only cause local and global finanicial collapse
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> my dad forecast that compound risk in the economist in 1972 and foresaw 2010s as last decade to change economics to include type 2 stockmarkets
> --- On Thu, 8/9/11, Sami
> From: Sami
> From: christopher macrae [mailto:chris.macrae@yahoo.co.uk]
> Sent: Tuesday, September 06, 2011 5:11 PM
> To: 'Naila Chowdhury'; Sami
> Cc: lesley.williams@the-hub.net; 'Naila Chowdhury'
> Subject: RE: SOCIAL EXCHANGE
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> sami - thanks
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> I need spme brain time - fortunately I have 2 days of flying so I will take your notes with me
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> after trying several projects with yunus, things hapened in dhaka that messed up the loans my family made - I cant afford another disrupted project etam
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> REGROUP
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> I am thinking of a simpler idea - identifying 100 people who invest most knowledge or money in youth through 2010s - I will start by inviting those yunus partners I believe in if he lets me do this- this will aslo help regenerate the journal of social bsuienss intended to be the journal of youth economoic sbut currently without leadership content
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> the idea is then to make this a club that debates how to change ecomocs. media etc - top topic on my mind is type 2 stickmarket investing in places youth as that is wgere my dads mindeset at The Economist over 40 eyars and yunus' in bangla vilages have 99.9% overlap
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> so hope all of this makes it more relevant we meet in DC when you have time - back sept 14 on
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> --- On Mon, 5/9/11, Sami
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> --- On Fri, 2/9/11, Sami
bankpoor.pdf
830K
Sami
Sami
From: Peter Burgess [mailto:peterbnyc@gmail.com]
Sent: Tuesday, September 20, 2011 5:58 PM
To: Sami
Subject: Re: actions deadlined by microcreditsummit RE: SOCIAL EXCHANGE
Peter Burgess