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Original article: Burgess COMMENTARY This is from 'Quora'. It describes something of the essential logic of British policing, which is very good and probably the best in the world. British policing is done without the use of guns and other lethal force and is very effective ... far more effective than any police department that makes use of lethal weapons and other types of military equipment. If a crime is committed and there are weapons involved, the punishment in the UK is very severe. Most criminals do not want the risk associated with having a weapon, let alone actually using it. This is so very different from the United States where policing and guns and criminals are all out of control! Peter Burgess | ||
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Ben Mason ... Lived in The United Kingdom (1980–2016)Oct 28
Q If British police don't typically carry guns, what do they do if they face a criminal on a routine traffic stop who is armed and starts shooting at them because they have no gun to defend themselves with? The London Bridge 2017 terror attack is a good example of what happens in this instance. 3 men armed with a van, petrol bombs and knives launched an attack on random members of the public. From the first emergency call, it took the armed police 8 minutes to arrive. From the moment of arrival It then took them 20 seconds to kill all 3 attackers. 20 seconds. That’s how well trained they are. No one ever pulls a gun on police here. Even suicide terrorists can’t get hold of them. And the gangsters that have them are smart enough not to use them on police for something as dumb as a traffic stop. They wouldn’t even have to start shooting. The minute anyone even sees a handgun on the street here, this is what will turn up pretty quickly afterwards. 66.4K viewsView 2,050 upvotes ----------------------------------- Q What happens when someone shoots at unarmed British police? ----------------------------------- Scaz, Support Worker at Social Care, Police at Police and Law Enforcement (1995-present) and Mike Dunning, lives in The United Kingdom (1965-present) Answered Sep 29 · Upvoted by Steve Freeman All holy hell breaks loose. You aren’t just shooting at 1 unarmed cop, you are shooting at the EVERY POLICE OFFICER IN THE COUNTRY! And I’m not talking just England, I’m talking the whole UK! They are going to arrive, mob handed, armed to the teeth. Quickly. Every division will know what you look like, what you were last seen wearing and what vehicle you were driving, and they will all be looking for you.. and fast! And your nice little “time off for good behaviour.” Bollocks. That’s not gonna happen. Ever. 26.1K viewsView 460 upvotes 34 comments from Lindsay Hall and more ----------------------------------- Kat Kinns, Msc Business Economics & Law, Erasmus University Rotterdam (2014) and Marcel Vos Anne Webley, lives in The United Kingdom (1957-present) Updated Mar 22, 2018 · Upvoted by They are FUCKED. Crimes in the UK typically carry short sentences, and there is no 'three strikes and you're out' law. Suspects don't have any need for desperate action, so there really is much less reason to shoot an officer, even when a criminal is cornered. However, if you shoot a police officer, you can expect there suddenly to be literally thousands of police officers focusing only on finding you. And those guys will be armed. Greater Manchester police recently responded to a Freedom of Information request, average response times for armed units is 3:56 (3 minutes 56 seconds). The armed officers that respond will have had years of (unarmed) police experience, an exemplary record, followed by a 17 week residential firearms training course, and 30 hours a month of ongoing training. They carry the full suite of modern weapons, e.g. The same HK 416 used by delta force, modern sniper rifles, etc. What do you plan on doing in 3 mins that will defeat or evade these specialist units? 
594K viewsView 12,021 upvotes View shares 401 comments from Kev Buckles and more 
----------------------------------- Alec Cawley, Software Engineer, Police Officer & author of 'Unit When Free' at The United Kingdom (1997-present) Answered Apr 27, 2020 · Upvoted by Nick Murray You have started what, in other circumstances, would be called a life long vendetta. In the short term, the officers you shot at will obviously take cover, while radioing for armed support. This can be expected in ten minutes or less in town, longer in the country. In the longer term, they will spend what it takes to capture you. Hundreds of officers. Helicopters. Drones. And of course the enthusiastic support of the public, including those of a criminal disposition, in reporting anything suspicious. You will not have anything resembling a normal life ever again. You are on the run, and will be until you die or are caught. 9.1K viewsView 711 upvotes 17 comments from Andrew McGregor and more ----------------------------------- Q Have any US cops trained with British Police or vice versa? If so, what did you think of the other nations take on policing? Q If British police don't typically carry guns, what do they do if they face a criminal on a routine traffic stop who is armed and starts shooting at them because they have no gun to defend themselves with? Q Can I shoot someone that's shooting at the cops? ----------------------------------- John Mellor, Freelance Audio Editor for Film. Audio Engineer. (2004-present) Updated Apr 27, 2020 · Upvoted by Anne Webley, lives in The United Kingdom (1957-present) and Mike Dunning, lives in The United Kingdom (1965-present) There will be no corner of the Earth where they won’t be found. The British Police are one of the most resourceful and intelligence led forces in the World. The last time it happened an unarmed Police woman was shot dead in a bungled armed robbery. They were quickly rounded up bar one who went on the run. He made it all the way to SOMALIA! That lawless country with barely a working government made famous by Black Hawk Down, where he thought he was beyond reach. But he was found…by the British Police aided by Somali security forces and captured, he now rots in a British prison. Another member of the gang was found in Pakistan 14 years later and now awaiting extradition. David Bieber an American fugitive wanted for murder in Florida made the mistake of coming to the UK to hide, killing an unarmed Police officer and injuring another after he was arrested for driving a stolen car. He was the number one most wanted man in the UK and unfortunately for him had one of Britain’s best detectives on his tail (this detective found a child killer with nothing to go on but a zip tie). He was cornered in a hotel room by our ‘SWAT’ Police who absolutely would have drilled him if he came out firing which he intended on doing. We are a reserved tea drinking nation, with unarmed patrol officers, but the gloves can and do come off same as any nation. 17.1K viewsView 630 upvotes 13 comments from Tracey May and more ----------------------------------- Nick Scroogle Answered Apr 24, 2020 · Upvoted by Anne Webley, lives in The United Kingdom (1957-present) and Mike Dunning, lives in The United Kingdom (1965-present) Hoo boy did you just hump the bunk. Should you manage to leave the scene of the crime all your fellow criminals will be wielding long pointy sticks and jabbing them at you saying getawaygetawaygetaway until you go away. You see the Police in the UK have armed response units and they will do their best to not shoot innocent passers by, themselves and then you. Unless you make bangymcbangface at them with your weapon. Then the armed response team will make sure you stop being a threat either by terminally ending your criminal career at several hundred feet per second or by getting you to do the sensible thing and put down your weapons. Then you get taken into custody and then at some point you go to trial. In the UK the general public do not like it when criminals start shooting up the place. The public knows that’s how people get killed. So at your trial the jury (if you plead not guilty and ask for a jury trial) will be looking to keep you off the streets for as long as possible. If you do the sensible thing and plead guilty right off then the judge will be aware of the general public’s views and will look to give you a sentence that keeps you off the streets as long as possible. Now, should the sentence be thought to be too lenient then an appeal can be lodged, the case reviewed and your sentence increased. 52K viewsView 591 upvotes 17 comments from Terry Mummery and more ----------------------------------- Giles Holtby , lived in The United Kingdom Updated Sep 5, 2019 · Upvoted by Niclas Olovsson , M.S.; B.A Law & Informatics, Umeå University (1999) and Clive Anderson , lives in The United Kingdom (1956-present) The British police don't take kindly to being shot at, but they will usually go to great lengths to not kill you (as pointed out in the comments, they are by no means perfect). First off, the officer will call for help and try to resolve the situation safely if he or she can—either by attempting to de-escalate the situation or, as a last resort, with a baton or pepper spray. This would only be if you were that close and still trying to murder them or someone else. Meanwhile, you just got yourself a VERY loyal new friend, who is going to stick to you like a wet t-shirt on a fat fella, because you just became the priority for every security asset in the country, starting with the friendly local police helicopter. 
If you have made them really upset—maybe by taking hostages or looking like a terrorist—then these chaps might be asked to take an interest in you: 
All the above types of police officers will go to extraordinary lengths to resolve the situation safely and without loss of life or injury to anyone (including you, the perpetrator). HOWEVER, make no mistake; if it’s a choice between you getting hurt and a police officer or member of the public getting hurt, they will choose you. There is another option available to the commander if he or she feels a more robust approach is required. In situations where slow and safe are not appropriate, and the priority shifts to just needing the threat neutralised quickly and violently, CO19 are capable, but the real masters are these gentlemen: 
43.4K viewsView 1,828 upvotesView shares 65 comments from Timothy Soh and more ----------------------------------- Bradley Betts, Son of a Police Officer Answered Sep 2, 2019 · Upvoted by Anne Webley, lives in The United Kingdom (1957-present) Q What happens when someone shoots at unarmed British police? SCO19* will promptly turn up and shoot them back. And they won’t miss, either. If by some miracle the suspect survives this encounter (probably because they were sensible enough to put the gun down before SCO19 arrived), they are then going to get charged with possessing an illegal handgun, which is a minimum of five years for an adult or three years for a minor. More likely they will be found guilty of possessing a handgun with an intent to endanger life, which can get you life in prison. They will definitely be charged with assaulting an officer in the pursuit of his duty and/or with committing assault in an attempt to evade arrest. And this is of course on top of whatever crimes they had committed in order to arouse the interest of Her Majesty’s Finest in the first place. Don’t think they’ll be getting away before the men with guns show up, either. Gun crime is of the highest priority, and the police in Britain take the death or injury, or even attempted injury, of one of their own about as well as any other police force. That shooter now has the undivided attention of every single police force and all their various support staff, technology, and gadgets in the country. They’re either going to get shot, or they’re going to prison for a very long time. Criminals know this, as well. It is incredibly rare that British criminals will be thick enough to attack cops. It is incredibly rare for them to have a gun. So it is very, very rare that one of our officers will be shot at. *Or their local equivalent; every major force has their own firearms unit. 27.1K viewsView 730 upvotes 29 comments from Huw Pritchard and more ----------------------------------- Mark Harrison, Lived here since 1970 Answered Sep 6, 2019 I’m writing in 2019. The last time someone shot and killed a police officer in the UK was in 2012. Two Police Constables - PC Nicola Hughes and PC Fiona Bone were killed by a man called Dale Cregan in a gun and grenade ambush. A little one hour later, Dale walked into a police station and turned himself in. 5 months later, he pled “guilty”, and also confessed to two other murders. He was sentenced to life in prison without the possibility of parole. He has spent some of that time in a psychiatric hospital, but most of it in prison. 15.4K viewsView 468 upvotes 21 comments from Alan Mellor and more ----------------------------------- Ralph King , Just retired police Officer at East Anglia (1990-present) Answered Apr 7, 2017 · Upvoted by Clive Anderson, lives in The United Kingdom (1956-present) and Niclas Olovsson, M.S.; B.A Law & Informatics, Umeå University (1999) What happens when someone shoots at unarmed British police? We duck. Then that person will become number one target across the entire country for ever or until they are found and then charged with attempted murder of a police officer (if they failed) or murder (if they didn’t). It is an ironic thing, but part of the protection for unarmed police officers is that it is not possible to claim any form of self-defence as a defence against murder if you do that. If we were all armed then depending on the circumstances, a defence case could be made that they were defending their own lives against illegal threat from an armed person. To defend your or another’s life, possibly with deadly force, is a common law right for anyone. That is why armed police will try to negotiate the armed criminal down. They will only use deadly force themselves when faced with no other alternative to prevent their own deaths or deaths of others. With an unarmed officer no one can claim that they needed a firearm to protect themselves from a police officer (or anyone else for that matter) and with normal patrolling officers everybody knows we don’t carry guns, so they can’t claim they thought we “might have had one”. Police murderers get whole life sentences, or at least a huge great chunk of their lives anyway, and everybody knows it. So, that isn’t a gun they are holding in their hand, that is potentially the rest of their lives in gaol. It can be a sobering thought. 13.2K viewsView 499 upvotesView sharesAns
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