Burgess COMMENTARY

Peter Burgess

DAILY KOS News, Community, Action The Seamy Underbelly Of Ferguson Starts To Appear(Updated)

Whenever things make absolutely no sense, I think it can be said that while it may make no sense to you, it may make sense to someone. And nine times out of ten, what has previously appeared nonsensical may be sensical, especially if someone somewhere is making money from the nonsense.

When the whole Michael Brown episode appeared out of nowhere, I am sure that I am not alone when I wondered, how is it remotely possible that a young man could end up dead for jaywalking? But perhaps part of the riddle has been solved by Newsweek, in an exemplary story displaying actual curiosity, investigation and journalism:

Driving While Black In Ferguson

Very simply, a town that bankrolls itself through racial profiling and harassment of minority citizens in penny ante driving violations which are then ratcheted up in both costs and ramifications through manipulative measures, is EXACTLY the kind of place where a jaywalking offense would spiral out of control. There really is something very systemically awful going on in that town and it is tragic that it took the death of black teenager to draw one's eyes to it.

In this exceptional article by Victoria Bekiempis she draws our attention to:

Arch City Defenders: Municipal Courts White Paper

in which we discover that

'Despite Ferguson’s relative poverty, fines and court fees comprise the second largest source of revenue for the city, a total of 2,635,400,' according to the ArchCity Defenders report. And in 2013, the Ferguson Municipal Court issued 24,532 arrest warrants and 12,018 cases, 'or about 3 warrants and 1.5 cases per household.'

Do you think that there is another city or town anywhere that averages 3 warrants per household? I have to wonder if there isn't some incentive or bonus or quota system in place to get the police to write that many tickets and arrest warrants.

Further we learn of a city which uses the oppression of it's poor minority population in a concentrated and what appears to be, conscious, effort to exploit them by issuing an alarming and disproportionate amount of tickets and warrants in the first place and then driving up the costs of these offense exponentially through such trickery as: (Again from the Newsweek article citing the ArchCity Defenders report)

Exacerbating the problem, the report says, are 'a number of operational procedures that make it even more difficult for defendants to navigate the courts.' A Ferguson court employee reported, for example, that 'the bench routinely starts hearing cases 30 minutes before the appointed time and then locks the doors to the building as early as five minutes after the official hour, a practice that could easily lead a defend net arriving even slightly late to receive an additional charge for failure to appear.'

This is beyond horrible. On the heinous scale it is right at the top along with the judges in Pennsylvania who sent juveniles off to private for profit prisons in order to earn kickbacks. It might be instructive to ask ourselves what would have happened to Michael Brown if his jaywalking offense had been handled in what appears to be the 'normal' manner in Ferguson. Based on what I just read, I would have to think that he would be issued summons for jaywalking and then might possibly have been obstructed from appearing, adding additional warrants and fines that he would not have been able to pay. And that's probably the BEST outcome he could have hoped for.

He might also have been arrested for shoplifting, assault and jaywalking, all with escalating penalties and punishments - he may have found himself to be labelled a felon, in which case his hopes for a future in heating and air conditioning would have been dashed as most companies require background checks and bonding.

So in Ferguson Missouri, it would seem that the future of Michael Brown became irremediably clouded once he jaywalked and drew police attention to himself.

I understand that the town of Ferguson has hired a PR firm. Good, they need one.

UPDATE

PART II- I feel compelled to add something that seems so obviously necessary to include in this diary that completes the circle of why Ferguson is Ferguson.

One of the things that has come out is that the power structure in Ferguson is almost exclusively Caucasian despite the fact that the 2010 census showed a 70/30 ratio of African Americans vs White population. Yet, despite this, according to The LA Times

Ferguson’s police chief and mayor are white. Of the six City Council members, one is black. The local school board has six white members and one Latino. Of the 53 commissioned officers on the police force, three are black, said Ferguson Police Chief Thomas Jackson.

How can this be? we ask ourselves. Well, one of the fruits of disparate policing and the spiraling of charges and the mass transformation of an entire population into fugitives due to outstanding bench warrants is that that same population has now been successfully disenfranchised of their vote. Felons don't vote* and fugitives don't vote.

Could that possibly provide part of the answer for the imbalance at the top in Ferguson? Is Ferguson an example of a perfect alignment of how imbalanced policing leads to imbalanced justice leads to imbalanced representation and voter suppression?

The lessons to be taken away from Ferguson and Michael Brown's death are many. I hope that his death may lead to changes in Ferguson, and in Missouri and in our country at large.

*(To be clear, the law in Missouri seems to be that felons may re-instate their right to vote and re-register once all sentences, probation, and parole have been completed)

ORIGINALLY POSTED TO PHOEBE LOOSINHOUSE ON MON AUG 18, 2014 AT 01:59 PM PDT.

ALSO REPUBLISHED BY BARRIERS AND BRIDGES AND BLACK KOS COMMUNITY.

COMMENT 230 COMMENTS | PERMALINK * [new] Tip Jar (739+ / 0-) 'Human kindness has never weakened the stamina or softened the fiber of a free people. A nation does not have to be cruel to be tough.' FDR by Phoebe Loosinhouse on Mon Aug 18, 2014 at 01:59:23 PM PDT * [new] This is a very important diary (241+ / 0-) however, insofar as you portray Ferguson as somewhat unique in criminalizing poverty, sadly it is not in Today's America. here's a (much!) longer article on that topic by Roadbed Guy on Mon Aug 18, 2014 at 02:13:51 PM PDT * [new] Thank you for the link (129+ / 0-) The New Yorker has done some great stuff on this issue and others of a similar vein. Many know what is going on - but few step up to give it the attention it deserves and our politicians are running dead last in that regard. How ironic will it be if Rand Paul scoops up the social justice issue while our Dems twiddle their thumbs? 'Human kindness has never weakened the stamina or softened the fiber of a free people. A nation does not have to be cruel to be tough.' FDR by Phoebe Loosinhouse on Mon Aug 18, 2014 at 02:35:22 PM PDT [ Parent ] * [new] chuck schumer to the rescue! (26+ / 0-) oh man, i just tickled myself with that one... I love Burt Bacharach by memofromturner on Mon Aug 18, 2014 at 02:45:16 PM PDT [ Parent ] * [new] 'Irony' is not the right word (46+ / 0-) well, unless you're trying to be charitable or something. I can't get the words 'political malpractice' out of my head.... 'Counting on people having nowhere else to go is the logic of a slumlord.'--Wolf10 by lunachickie on Mon Aug 18, 2014 at 03:40:45 PM PDT [ Parent ] * [new] This is 3rd world justice here... (16+ / 0-) Might as well be in Tijuana. (at least it's fun there) 'If one would give me six lines written by the hand of the most honest man, I would find something in them to have him hanged.' - 17th-century French clergyman and statesman Cardinal Richelieu. by markthshark on Mon Aug 18, 2014 at 08:54:00 PM PDT [ Parent ] * [new] Amnesty International apparently has now (28+ / 0-) concluded sufficiently egregious to take the unprecedented action of sending in a team: An Amnesty Int US First: Team to Ferguson, MO by divineorder Move Single Payer Forward? Join 18,000 Doctors of PNHP and 185,000 member National Nurses United by divineorder on Tue Aug 19, 2014 at 12:08:11 AM PDT [ Parent ] * [new] Hope they have access to a good lawyer (11+ / 0-) or two. They are likely to be arrested. You might very well think that; I couldn't possibly comment. by MikePhoenix on Tue Aug 19, 2014 at 12:35:13 AM PDT [ Parent ] * [new] Now Furguson, Missouri has something else (2+ / 0-) of which they can be very proud. Proud DFH, emeritus by johnrhoffman on Tue Aug 19, 2014 at 12:12:39 PM PDT [ Parent ] * [new] The amazing part of this is that.... (6+ / 0-) it is not only Ferguson, MO doing this -- it is at least St. Louis City and five surrounding -- all doing this same game. St. Louis County has well over 100 small cities within it's borders and Ferguson is just one of them. But they all do this and more. The DWB (driving while black) is a reality for all people that are not white. This happens even in rural areas two counties away from St. Louis, but blacks often are afraid to even travel in those places because folks know that much worse can happen out in these small rural towns. This rioting is just a symptom of a much larger issue that must be addressed -- EVERY police official in this nation MUST realize and accept that blacks have the same rights as whites! Try moving these demonstrations from the black part of Ferguson to the white parts of Ferguson and the gloves would come off and blood would RUN in the streets. As long as they can keep the trouble in the black part of town and corral the media into areas where they cannot see the action (1/4 to1/2 mile away) then the police will only use a little bit of excessive force, but dare to go where whites live and they won't even care about the media seeing them execute the protesters and label them as rioters! by niteryder14 on Tue Aug 19, 2014 at 01:31:58 PM PDT [ Parent ] * [new] I have seen far more RW'ers actually stepping (3+ / 0-) Forward with legislation that would put TSA agency in its place and that would offer us citizens some ability to fight off the Totalitarian state that is developing. They are not people whom I would want to vote for, in terms of things like their stance on LGBT marriage, and women's right to reproductive health. But since the Democrats except for Alan Grayson don't seem interested in our civil liberties, I am assuming the D's will indeed be losing younger voters to these issues. by EliseMattu on Tue Aug 19, 2014 at 02:12:04 PM PDT [ Parent ] * [new] Agree that New Yorker article was important (109+ / 0-) I was shocked when I read it. Get Out of Jail, Inc. : Does the alternatives-to-incarceration industry profit from injustice? What is described is a positively Dickensian debtors-prison kind of scenario. Like the payday-lending industry, only involuntary. 'The extinction of the human race will come from its inability to EMOTIONALLY comprehend the exponential function.' -- Edward Teller by lgmcp on Mon Aug 18, 2014 at 03:32:59 PM PDT [ Parent ] * [new] Thanks for this. (24+ / 0-) Bookmarking it for later. 'If Gov. Wallace doesn't do something the Feds will have to come in. Oh did I say Wallace?' -- BentLiberal by Colorado is the Shiznit on Mon Aug 18, 2014 at 03:34:22 PM PDT [ Parent ] * [new] great article (26+ / 0-) and the real story behind our so called justice and economic system here in the 'Homeland'. How is any ordinary poor person white or black without the money to pay the vig to keep these law backed official wolves from the door supposed to exist? I guess it doesn't matter as long as law and order is enforced. Shades of Les Miserables where stealing a loaf of bread makes you a criminal for life. Sick man just sick and yet people defend this tyranny. It's a crime to be poor in this country and it's a capital offense if your a black man even if you aren't poor. No trial not justice just shot to kill and justify it because maybe the victim stole some cigars and or scared some fucking racist thug who is a cop. Kind of makes you wonder when our government tells us that they need to kill torture and invade or humanitarianly intervene (as they like to call it) other nation states and people that they decide are a threat to the authoritarian violent grip the US has decided is in our interest. No justice no peace by shaharazade on Mon Aug 18, 2014 at 08:15:11 PM PDT [ Parent ] * [new] What I find even sickening as to what (37+ / 0-) The police and justice systems is doing to poor people all over the country, is that there are people who say these 'animals' deserve it. I think in the not distance future, this will be played out in many more States and those who are cheering now, might find themselves on the receiving end. There is an under lining reason for the militarization of the police. Even more our taxes go toward this, costing how much money? Then congress tells us they can't (won't) find the funds to extend unemployment benefits, or they need to cut SNAP and other programs our taxes go towards. This country definitely is on the wrong track. 'I find it incredible that Keith Alexander can sell secrets and is free to make a huge profit without being slammed with Espionage Act charges and Snowden is stateless' Jesselyn Radack. by snoopydawg on Mon Aug 18, 2014 at 08:31:11 PM PDT [ Parent ] * [new] damn straight snooydawg.. (14+ / 0-) by shaharazade on Mon Aug 18, 2014 at 08:51:53 PM PDT [ Parent ] * [new] I live two counties north of St. Louis county (102+ / 0-) out in the sticks, and I can tell you for a fact that lots of towns, from big, fat city suburbs to tiny little blurs along the road, use this kind of thing as one of their major sources of revenue. No one wants to raise taxes and much of Missouri is impoverished and wouldn't generate much in taxes anyway, so your local speed trap combined with harassment of the poor and desperate will usually generate what they need or want. It's not just the local cops that do it, either, the highway patrol has its own system of speed traps and stops for minor shit that adds up and gets people in big trouble over time, people that have nothing from the start. Then before you know it they're in jail and desperate, as more fines are levied and court costs. Oh, and you have to pay for being in jail, you have to pay them as if it was just a visit to a health club and you're paying them for taking such good care of you. The cops are horrible in places like Ferguson, the racial aspects of what's happening cannot and should not be denied, but they're not exactly warm and fuzzy anywhere else you'll find poor people, either. If they perceive you as lesser, you're screwed. 'The world breaks everyone, and afterward, some are strong at the broken places.' Ernest Hemingway by Got a Grip on Mon Aug 18, 2014 at 05:08:09 PM PDT [ Parent ] * [new] Do not speed past (35+ / 0-) Lambert Airport on I-70 because there is nearly always a speed trap there! And it's not the state cops; they're from the little municipality that the interstate goes through. And they'll have four or five cars sitting at the ramps, waiting for someone (many someones) to speed past. I think it's unsafe because it clogs up the interstate and creates a hazard. You're gonna need a bigger boat. by Debby on Mon Aug 18, 2014 at 05:12:06 PM PDT [ Parent ] * [new] There's a nasty little spot on I-70 (47+ / 0-) at a little spot called Foristell, which is just west of Wentzville, one of the current destinations of white flight from St. Louis. Anyway, there's a big weigh station for tractor trailers at Foristell, big set-up on both sides of the highway there, and a couple of giant truck stops. There are about a half dozen spots that the cops like to set up there at the weigh station, plus they lurk in the truck stops and on the outer roads on the highway right there so the place is just crawling with cops all the time. The local cops catch a fair amount of speeders there, I'm sure, and there are a couple of spots there that are clearly designated as being for the local cops to pull down some change for the coffers. But it's the Highway Patrol targeting vehicles that fit their profiles for drug smuggling that really puts on a show there. Now, whatever their profile says covers a vast range of vehicles, from panel trucks to shiny foreign sports cars to ancient Cadillacs held together with Bondo and duct tape, but one of their primary targets seems to be the kinds of vans and mini vans that you see poor people with more kids than money driving. You know, the dull paint job is dusty, the tires have thin tread, bug guts all over the windshield because the wipers are shitty and they can't afford to buy washer fluid. On more than a few occasions I've seen at least a dozen cop cars there with a whole string of vans pulled over, using creative reasoning to justify pulling them over and then bullying them into letting them search their vehicles. Sometimes you'll see families standing beside their vehicle while it gets taken apart by the cops. Sweaty little kids, frail grandmas, it doesn't matter. There might be a joint in there, or someone has been foolish enough to put their Xanax in a pill box instead of the bottle it came in and now they're going to jail! I can also name you a whole string of names of small towns with their own little money makers. But it's the highway patrol that puts on a big show in places like Foristell. 'The world breaks everyone, and afterward, some are strong at the broken places.' Ernest Hemingway by Got a Grip on Mon Aug 18, 2014 at 05:47:47 PM PDT [ Parent ] * [new] You don't need to be speeding (41+ / 0-) My sister is the most careful driver on the planet, ESPECIALLY when she has a rental car. She got pulled over in Mississippi, and the cop claimed she had been speeding. She said, 'You know I haven't. If anything, I was driving slightly under the speed limit.' His reply? 'Let's see you prove that in court.' Meaning, of course, that he knew she was not from the area and would not be able to appear. That little lesson in local corruption cost her $500. He didn't even try to hide the fact that the ticket was horseshit. If you can find money to kill people, you can find money to help people. --Tony Benn by rhetoricus on Mon Aug 18, 2014 at 07:33:05 PM PDT [ Parent ] * [new] My GPS has a speed indicator function. (26+ / 0-) Wouldn't it be possible to contact the company and get a printout of time, position and speed? I don't know, I'm just asking the question. If this isn't SOP for GPS devices, it should be. And if it isn't, this is a GREAT opportunity for someone to write an app that does the same thing. 'Human kindness has never weakened the stamina or softened the fiber of a free people. A nation does not have to be cruel to be tough.' FDR by Phoebe Loosinhouse on Mon Aug 18, 2014 at 07:38:18 PM PDT [ Parent ] * [new] Good call! Also seems like the FBI.. (14+ / 0-) ..could play the same game. Set up a sting for local police corruption, sue the department. Wonder if individuals could do the same? If you can find money to kill people, you can find money to help people. --Tony Benn by rhetoricus on Mon Aug 18, 2014 at 07:47:02 PM PDT [ Parent ] * [new] Sting woud have to be for criminal corruption, (9+ / 0-) civil suits would be class actions by citizens. Which is actually easier, since the level of proof for civil matters is 'more likely than not' instead of the criminal 'beyond a reasonable doubt'. At that point I suppose it's a matter of getting a group of people together and hiring a firm to handle it. Information is abundant, wisdom is scarce. ~The Druid. ~Ideals aren't goals, they're navigation aids.~ by FarWestGirl on Tue Aug 19, 2014 at 03:31:01 AM PDT [ Parent ] (0+ / 0-)* [new] Aren't systemic and intentional filings of false police reports intended to generate revenue, oh, FRAUD? And false report filing. Seems pretty criminal to me, anyway.... by Occulus on Wed Aug 20, 2014 at 03:10:26 AM PDT [ Parent ] * [new] Wouldn't you still have to appear (14+ / 0-) in person at your court date? That's the impediment. You're gonna need a bigger boat. by Debby on Mon Aug 18, 2014 at 09:28:21 PM PDT [ Parent ] * [new] This type of thing happened to me (13+ / 0-) I was driving something like 67 mph in a 55 zone (JUST LIKE EVERYBODY ELSE!) but the cop opted to pull me over (cynically, I claim because of out-of-state) license plates And give me a $198 fine. At which point I subsequently called up the (very perky sounding and helpful) court clerk listed on the ticket, to complain how it really wasn't all that fair .. . .she helpfully suggested that I didn't actually need to appear in court in person, I could hire a proxy - and even suggested an attorney (apparently the only one in town!!) who'd perform this service for me, for only $175! So the idea was that I might be able save $23 by hiring this person, isn't that convenient? (!?!). by Roadbed Guy on Tue Aug 19, 2014 at 07:45:20 AM PDT [ Parent ] * [new] At least your money would have gone into (5+ / 0-) the local economy! I suppose your fine would, too, but consider the entry point. Yeah, I got my first ticket in Kansas, coming back from a trip to Yellowstone. There was nothing around me, flat to the horizon, except for bridges over the interstate and their related on-ramps. That's where they hide. Really, I had a dinky little car and it was crammed full of camping equipment. I was impressed that it attained such speeds! You're gonna need a bigger boat. by Debby on Tue Aug 19, 2014 at 10:28:46 AM PDT [ Parent ] * [new] Nowadays the cops are also looking for anyone (2+ / 0-) coming from Colorado that they can pull over, under the presumption that they came to my state to pick up weed. That has resulted in a lot of stops in both Kansas and Nebraska from what I understand. by ColoTim on Tue Aug 19, 2014 at 12:24:38 PM PDT [ Parent ] * [new] Garmin GPS units (5+ / 0-) allow you to connect to a PC and download the 'breadcrumbs' - the logged datapoints that show where you've been. These can then be plotted on a map, each tagged with a timestamp. It may not be exact enough to establish speed at a specific point, but will definitely allow calculation of average speed between two points. Might be useful. Not sure if OnStar, Trapster, or Waze offer a 'download your latest trip log' feature. They should. Waze keeps track of your trips, as it limits your street editing ability to within 1 mile radius of 'where you've traveled'. If your sole and entire rationale for doing something is 'It's not illegal.' then perhaps you should rethink doing it. by dcnblues on Tue Aug 19, 2014 at 08:38:54 AM PDT [ Parent ] * [new] 'Come on vacation, leave on probation' (5+ / 0-) is what they say about our rural county. LE is singing for its supper and they HAVE to since there is no other industry (Big Ag's tax contribution to the local economy and tax base is minimal, by design, of course). And, of course, the Chamber of Commerce wants to promote 'tourism' and seem to be mainly composed of the sort of folks who have a hard time connecting the dots to put together why tourism is down when the members of the sheriff's dept look at people, whether residents or travelers, the way a red-tailed hawk regards a 2 lb pullet in an open field. by R rugosa alba on Tue Aug 19, 2014 at 12:52:09 PM PDT [ Parent ] * [new] Alfred Hitchcock Presents The Crooked Road (0+ / 0-) This episode has been scrubbed from Youtube, but it is one of his best about a little town with exactly this sort of good old boy scam going on. Walter Matthau plays the crooked cop with a thick southern drawl. Cracker(krăk´ẽr ) Someone, usually but not exclusively white, whose world view is primarily formed by consensual validation as opposed to observed fact, hence 'cracker' for someone brittle, insubstantial and lacking in nutritive value. by outis2 on Thu Aug 21, 2014 at 02:42:28 PM PDT [ Parent ] * [new] Yeah, I was going to mention that the PR (23+ / 0-) firm is all white, even whiter than I am (I am oddly purple, depending on the temperature...) ...Son, those Elephants always look out for themselves. If you happen to get a crumb or two from their policies, it's a complete coincidence. -Malharden's Dad by slowbutsure on Mon Aug 18, 2014 at 06:09:01 PM PDT [ Parent ] * [new] Atrios.... (17+ / 0-) was on this story early this morning and at Talking Points Memo, a post which seems to indicate that the PR firm Ferguson hired has one eensy beensy problem. Free markets would be a great idea, if markets were actually free. by dweb8231 on Mon Aug 18, 2014 at 06:41:58 PM PDT [ Parent ] * [new] It writes itself (23+ / 0-) Ferguson: People are being all mean and getting the wrong idea because our entire power structure is white with practically no minority presence. PR Firm - OMG! Tell us about it - have you ever come to the right place! (Followed by awkward would-be fist bump that completely misses.) 'Human kindness has never weakened the stamina or softened the fiber of a free people. A nation does not have to be cruel to be tough.' FDR by Phoebe Loosinhouse on Mon Aug 18, 2014 at 06:56:05 PM PDT [ Parent ] * [new] Sounds like a great SNL skit to me. eom (10+ / 0-) You might very well think that; I couldn't possibly comment. by MikePhoenix on Tue Aug 19, 2014 at 12:40:15 AM PDT [ Parent ] * [new] Nice one. (12+ / 0-) An important book along these lines is Alice Goffman's On The Run: Fugitive Life in an American City, which outlines just how ubiquitous warrants have become as a tool of police harrassment in low income African American communities. There is a sense of entire communities being chronically subject to the threat of search and seizure, the possibility of arrest, the unceasing sense of simply living illegally from one moment to the next. It could be on something to the effect of, you failed to pay fees on a parking ticket, and this failure has resulted in the issuing of a bench warrant in your name. What begins as penny-ante misdemeanors, of the kind that virtually any American would likely be violating at some point in their life, are ramped up into warrants on fugitive suspects, to the extent that entire groups of young men live in a constant state of anxiety and avoidance with respect to law enforcement. Don't let the academic press fool you: while the text is a thoroughgoing ethnographic treatment of its subject, it is accessible to read, written more in the sense of nonfiction journalism than of academic prose. A very important book. Nothing requires a greater effort of thought than arguments to justify the rule of non-thought. -- Milan Kundera by Dale on Tue Aug 19, 2014 at 08:47:37 AM PDT [ Parent ] * [new] Leading lives of quiet desperation (9+ / 0-) Which is fine. It's only when quiet desperation starts to exhibit voice and action as is occurring in Ferguson that the Powers That Be have cause for alarm. Just saw an amazing experiment in divorcing oneself from realty in which the subject, the white Mayor of Ferguson proclaimed to Tamron Hall on MSNBC that Ferguson is a veritable Happyville USA with 'no racial divide' and 'that is the perspective of ALL residents of our city' Watch the video for yourself. Ferguson mayor: There's No Racial Divide Here Breathtaking. 'Human kindness has never weakened the stamina or softened the fiber of a free people. A nation does not have to be cruel to be tough.' FDR by Phoebe Loosinhouse on Tue Aug 19, 2014 at 08:58:34 AM PDT [ Parent ] * [new] Dale, I don't know if (0+ / 0-) a bench warrant for a misdemeanor or infraction turns in to a felony. Oh, its a terrific pain in the ass but I doubt it is a felony that costs you your right to vote. 'The answer must be, I think, that beauty and grace are performed whether or not we will or sense them. The least we can do is try to be there.' ― Annie Dillard, Pilgrim at Tinker Creek by 6412093 on Tue Aug 19, 2014 at 06:47:42 PM PDT [ Parent ] * [new] We hear of gateway drugs. I suppose that these (0+ / 0-) sorts of things may be gate offenses. There can be no protection locally if we're content to ignore the fact that there are no controls globally. by oldpotsmuggler on Tue Aug 19, 2014 at 07:11:45 PM PDT [ Parent ] * [new] True, old pot. n/t (1+ / 0-) 'The answer must be, I think, that beauty and grace are performed whether or not we will or sense them. The least we can do is try to be there.' ― Annie Dillard, Pilgrim at Tinker Creek by 6412093 on Tue Aug 19, 2014 at 10:20:23 PM PDT [ Parent ] * [new] They don't need a PR firm. They need a soul. (151+ / 0-) Is it true? Is it kind? Is it necessary? . . . and respect the dignity of every human being. by Wee Mama on Mon Aug 18, 2014 at 02:15:12 PM PDT * [new] Last I checked you can hire a PR firm but (60+ / 0-) you can't buy a soul. Well... there's this one guy, but really, you don't want to be that guy. GOP 2014 strategy -- Hire clowns, elephants, and a ringmaster and say 'a media circus' has emerged and blame Democrats for lack of progress. Have pundits agree that 'both sides are to blame' and hope the public will stay home on election day. by ontheleftcoast on Mon Aug 18, 2014 at 02:55:05 PM PDT [ Parent ] * [new] If money is speech, and speech is human, them (18+ / 0-) it seems that corporations can buy souls. Patriotism may be the last refuge of scoundrels, but religion is assuredly the first. by StrayCat on Mon Aug 18, 2014 at 05:55:32 PM PDT [ Parent ] * [new] Impossible to buy what is priceless (13+ / 0-) The soul is love, oneness, beauty, harmlessness and compassion among other virtues. Its great quality is to sacrifice itself in selfless service to the greater good. Not exactly what is taught as the righteous path in business school. by socal altvibe on Mon Aug 18, 2014 at 07:52:37 PM PDT [ Parent ] * [new] The soul has no duty to sacrifice itself to some (0+ / 0-) non existent greater good. A sacrificed soul is a dead soul. Patriotism may be the last refuge of scoundrels, but religion is assuredly the first. by StrayCat on Tue Aug 19, 2014 at 11:13:50 AM PDT [ Parent ] * [new] Robert Johnson? (13+ / 0-) ;-). He really could play guitar. by howabout on Mon Aug 18, 2014 at 06:36:08 PM PDT [ Parent ] * [new] Down at the crossroads (6+ / 0-) you really don't want to deal with that guy. Of coarse you've got to have a soul in the first place to make any deals there. 'When I see I am nothing, that is wisdom. When I see I am everything, that is love. My life is a movement between these two.' - Nisargadatta Maharaj. by mkor7 on Mon Aug 18, 2014 at 08:31:36 PM PDT [ Parent ] * [new] I think that guy only buys (0+ / 0-) he leaves the selling to poor desperate saps... Fear doesn't just breed incomprehension. It also breeds a spiteful, resentful hate of anyone and everyone who is in any way different from you. by awesumtenor on Wed Aug 20, 2014 at 07:46:46 AM PDT [ Parent ] * [new] Haven't you heard...??? (29+ / 0-) ...PR Firms ARE the new soul Hashtag Whocouldhaveforeseen? Words can sometimes, in moments of grace, attain the quality of deeds. --Elie Wiesel by a gilas girl on Mon Aug 18, 2014 at 03:24:09 PM PDT [ Parent ] * [new] Heh. PR hacks are just the worst... (19+ / 0-) I mean, I know people have to make a living, but for every bit of scumbaggery you might find in this country, there's some PR consultant sure to defend the indefensible... by SixSixSix on Mon Aug 18, 2014 at 04:49:31 PM PDT [ Parent ] * [new] I think that Midnight Louie (1+ / 0-) would disagree with you... :) by mmcnary on Tue Aug 19, 2014 at 06:21:10 AM PDT [ Parent ] (11+ / 0-)* [new] Calling Condoleezza! by TexDem on Mon Aug 18, 2014 at 05:38:08 PM PDT [ Parent ] * [new] I think you mean (11+ / 0-) ... a gene splice... I'm thinking there may be a polymorphism in the OXTR (oxytocin receptor) gene... 'The modern conservative is engaged in one of man's oldest exercises in moral philosophy; that is, the search for a superior moral justification for selfishness.' —John Kenneth Galbraith by eyeswideopen on Mon Aug 18, 2014 at 03:34:53 PM PDT [ Parent ] * [new] As always, well said, Wam. n/t (16+ / 0-) '...[Among] which are life, liberty, the enjoyment of the fruit of their own labor, and the pursuit of happiness.' by Yasuragi on Mon Aug 18, 2014 at 04:21:43 PM PDT [ Parent ] * [new] ::waves!:: (11+ / 0-) Is it true? Is it kind? Is it necessary? . . . and respect the dignity of every human being. by Wee Mama on Mon Aug 18, 2014 at 05:42:26 PM PDT [ Parent ] * [new] Great diary. Diaries like these are why I love (71+ / 0-) this site. by Yoshimi on Mon Aug 18, 2014 at 02:22:35 PM PDT * [new] Small municipalities in north St. Louis County... (100+ / 0-) are putting speed cameras on highway overpasses. Other north St. Louis County municipalities are hiding them along their streets. All of the municipalities that are cited in the linked articles as having speed cameras are located in North St. Louis County where Ferguson is located, have predominantly AA populations, and are for the most part impoverished. The worst thing about St. Louis is Missouri. by duckhunter on Mon Aug 18, 2014 at 02:26:54 PM PDT * [new] That's the big thing here too (72+ / 0-) For instance, very poor, almost all black East Cleveland just down the hill from me has speed cameras EVERYWHERE and absurdly low speed limits of 25mph even in deserted areas. They are so desperate for money they are gouging it out of the hides of the state's poorest people (They cannot blame this on white people however; as far as I know, all city officials including the mayor are black except for one woman I know on the school board who is white). Since East Cleveland lies between me and where I often work, and I sometimes have to go through it if the weather or traffic is bad, I am VERY careful — not of the people there, but of the cameras. Ed FitzGerald for governor Of Ohio. Women's lives depend on it. http://www.edfitzgeraldforohio.com/ by anastasia p on Mon Aug 18, 2014 at 02:40:39 PM PDT [ Parent ] * [new] If the local government is African American (29+ / 0-) I wonder who the property owners and business owners are? Why aren't taxes raised on those people, rather than levying more and more fines on already impoverished populace? Obama is not a dark-skinned anti-war socialist who offers free healthcare. You're thinking of Jesus. by DMiller on Mon Aug 18, 2014 at 03:01:31 PM PDT [ Parent ] * [new] Don't you remember Bushtheidiot (1+ / 0-) telling us 'You can't raise taxes on the job creators'. So the cash-strapped municipalities go after the poor because they're easy pickin's. Edmund Burke said ' . . . the essence of tyranny is the enforcement of stupid laws,' by Karenh44 on Tue Aug 19, 2014 at 06:12:49 PM PDT [ Parent ] * [new] they are all over Washington, DC, too (15+ / 0-) but in ALL neighborhoods. Revenue generation is necessary in cities that don't have large tax bases (like Washington, DC). Words can sometimes, in moments of grace, attain the quality of deeds. --Elie Wiesel by a gilas girl on Mon Aug 18, 2014 at 03:25:35 PM PDT [ Parent ] * [new] Chicago too. (23+ / 0-) Red light cameras in the neighborhoods - not in the central business district. by Yoshimi on Mon Aug 18, 2014 at 02:56:50 PM PDT [ Parent ] * [new] Little old Dover, Delaware (1+ / 0-) has about 5-6 cameras on the main drag that have apparently been so successful that the authorities are putting them in a couple of cities to the North. $112.50 for running the red light. Many residents screech to a stop when the light turns yellow, which can be a real hazard. Reach out your hand if your cup be empty, If your cup is full may it be again by VPofKarma on Tue Aug 19, 2014 at 01:03:27 PM PDT [ Parent ] * [new] The legacy of Ronald Reagan and small government (91+ / 0-) conservatism. This is what 'trickles down'. Fees and fines for everything instead of tax collection. A millionaire paying $100 traffic fine doesn't even blink at it. OK, they'll bitch and moan that it's tyranny but really, they do that for everything. A poor person might have to decide they can't eat, or get medicine, clothing, or pay rent. GOP 2014 strategy -- Hire clowns, elephants, and a ringmaster and say 'a media circus' has emerged and blame Democrats for lack of progress. Have pundits agree that 'both sides are to blame' and hope the public will stay home on election day. by ontheleftcoast on Mon Aug 18, 2014 at 02:57:13 PM PDT [ Parent ] * [new] Yes, it a regressive tax, like sin taxes... (31+ / 0-) Progressives should always be against regressive taxation schemes. Taxation via citation and sin taxes are ways that governments can screw poor and working-class people into providing revenue instead of progressive taxes that might piss off their 1% benefactors. by SixSixSix on Mon Aug 18, 2014 at 05:09:57 PM PDT [ Parent ] * [new] There should be a system like in some (6+ / 0-) Scandanavian countries where traffic fines are based on a proportion of income, resulting in fines in the tens of thousands of dollars for minor offenses . . . by Roadbed Guy on Mon Aug 18, 2014 at 05:39:33 PM PDT [ Parent ] * [new] OK, on second thought, I doubt that they (8+ / 0-) even have dollars in Finland, so maybe that entire article was just made up. My bad, sorry about that. by Roadbed Guy on Mon Aug 18, 2014 at 05:41:12 PM PDT [ Parent ] * [new] you should be (2+ / 0-) and I sincerely doubt any one in Finland was fined 71,000$. Is your user name because you feel the roadbeds should be free and clear to speeders regardless of the consequences we as ordinary people suffer? Be it speed of cars or speed of the rich to leave the rest of us standing in their dust I find your first comment highly relieving. Sliding scales be they for traffic violations or medical care are not the devils paw but democratic and humane. by shaharazade on Mon Aug 18, 2014 at 08:47:39 PM PDT [ Parent ] * [new] Expat in Finland here: (16+ / 0-) we do have fines based on net income. Straight from the Police's English page on Speed Surveillance: Speed surveillance The aim of speed surveillance by the police is to reduce speeding. The police measure driving speeds using radar guns, laser detectors, instruments measuring average speed and automatic speed surveillance equipment. A driver caught speeding is usually stopped right away and is required to pay either a fixed fine or the appropriate number of unit fines (the system of unit fines is based on the offender's net income). If a driver is suspected of speeding, the police will conduct a simplified pre-trial investigation. The driver is first asked whether he/she denies having speeded. Even if the driver denies it, the police may still issue a summary penal order, and in such cases must attach a report to be used by the prosecutor to decide whether to pursue charges or not. Here is one of the largest fines levied so far: One of Finland's richest men has been handed a record 170,000 euros speeding ticket, thanks to the country's policy of relating the fine to your income. Jussi Salonoja, the 27-year-old heir to a family-owned sausage empire, was given the £116,000 ticket after being caught driving 80km/h in a 40km/h zone. Welcome to Finland, where you pay according to your means. Also, if you live in an area with moose, you will know that driving safely means having the ability to actually stop if you are alert enough to spot one walk towards the road. Trigger warning (?): This is what happens if you hit one. Moose are huge and they blend in very well with the natural surroundings here. And when they are 'on the move' in the Fall, when we have overcast days, plenty of rain, and the darkness is setting in... fucking drive the speed limit. Emergency personnel could be using the time spent dealing with folks who were speeding that get into accidents helping someone else. To brutalize a quote from Hillary: 'Don't do stupid shit.' A Victory Garden documents my family's lawn to edible food forest transition. 60° N Permaculture explores my life as an expat in Finland. by FinchJ on Tue Aug 19, 2014 at 12:08:09 AM PDT [ Parent ] * [new] See my reply to shaharazade. (6+ / 0-) We do have such a system and those fines are real. A Victory Garden documents my family's lawn to edible food forest transition. 60° N Permaculture explores my life as an expat in Finland. by FinchJ on Tue Aug 19, 2014 at 12:09:18 AM PDT [ Parent ] * [new] As Barbara Ehrenreich points out, with only (12+ / 0-) minimal paradox, 'It's expensive to be poor in this country.' A $3 ATM fee on the minimum $20 withdrawal is far worse than the same $3 fee on a $100 withdrawal. If you don't have enough saved up for a two-month security deposit on an apartment rental, then you may need to book a motel room by the week -- which winds up being far more expensive, particularly when you may have only a microwave to handle 'cooking.' It may be difficult to establish credit, so people become subject to payday loans and check-cashing outfits, where the interest rates are staggering. Between the government fees and those imposed by the private sector, low income people are punished by an onerous burden of fees and charges that can't help but result in precarious, hand-to-mouth living. Nothing requires a greater effort of thought than arguments to justify the rule of non-thought. -- Milan Kundera by Dale on Tue Aug 19, 2014 at 08:57:36 AM PDT [ Parent ] * [new] In our area, the speed and red light cams (18+ / 0-) trigger fines, but NOT points that can accumulate and cause you to lose your license. So they can't be abused in the same manner as the Ferguson police do, essentially extorting money to get out of losing your license and job etc. Big difference. I don't mind cameras that fine speeders or red light runners -- there's no profiling and even if you don't like the speed limit, well, at least everybody is 'taxed' equally. Plus it does slow down traffic near schools, bike lanes etc. What Ferguson does is different -- they trap people into either very large fines to buy off the points, or else the people who can't pay the fines get escalating punishments. The rich (if they even drive through Ferguson at all) get let off or pay a big fine. The poor face losing their license or jail. It's essentially a white judicial system that is wholly financed by extorting money from blacks as the price of being able to drive, which in St. Louis county is pretty essential to having a livelihood. by this is only a test on Mon Aug 18, 2014 at 03:53:42 PM PDT [ Parent ] * [new] Everyone is NOT taxed equally. (14+ / 0-) I hope that the quality of debate will improve, but I fear we will remain Democrats. Who is twigg? by twigg on Mon Aug 18, 2014 at 04:07:06 PM PDT [ Parent ] * [new] It's an old, sad scam that slams the poor. (51+ / 0-) My wife was driving out-of-state, in NY, and let her speed hit 90 on a steep downhill stretch, at the bottom of which was a state trooper with a radar gun. Because the overage was extreme, so too was the penalty...$600 IIRC. We paid it and thought that was the end. But months later, back home, she received notice from our home state's (NC) motor vehicles bureau that her NC license would be revoked for six months because the moving violation in NY would have generated enough points in NC to take her license (states are sharing such info nowaday). To avoid this we had to hire an NC attorney, who in turn hired a NY attorney, and pay more costs to petition the NY court to reduce the charge to '75 MPH', which reduced the points involved. Having finally handed enough perfectly legal but utterly immoral money around to enough officers of the courts (about $5,000 by the time the dust settled) the problem was solved. It left us realizing that a poor working person, much more dependent on his or her license to survive, would have been completely unable to purchase the 'justice' we frankly bought. The loss of $5K didn't p*ss me off nearly as much as that realization did. by DocDawg on Mon Aug 18, 2014 at 04:41:49 PM PDT [ Parent ] * [new] nor even that poor. (27+ / 0-) Plenty of so called middle class.people can't get their hands on 5k . by jplanner on Mon Aug 18, 2014 at 06:04:33 PM PDT [ Parent ] * [new] And then that poor person who can't afford the (36+ / 0-) $5000 loses the license, and so loses the job, as you point out, because they need a car to get to work, and also loses the ability to go for the court hearings in time, and so ends up racking more fines, which, of course they can't pay--and finally end up incarcerated in a private prison to make more money for the Prison Industrial Complex, or (a better scenario) do community service which is, more often than not, acting as janitors and washroom cleaners for big industrial complexes on the weekends. You are right, DocDawg, this system makes any normal human being feel sick to the stomach. It's *Gandhi*, not Ghandi by poco on Mon Aug 18, 2014 at 06:23:33 PM PDT [ Parent ] * [new] Or they keep their job, just drive w/o license. (21+ / 0-) Then get caught, same end result. Gotta keep feeding the industrial-prison complex somehow. by BusyinCA on Mon Aug 18, 2014 at 06:37:57 PM PDT [ Parent ] * [new] FIVE thousand dollars! (12+ / 0-) Horrible. Modern highway robbery. Support Small Business: Shop Kos Katalogue If you'd like to join the Motor City Kossacks, send me a Kosmail. by peregrine kate on Mon Aug 18, 2014 at 07:21:21 PM PDT [ Parent ] * [new] It's fund-raising people! (8+ / 0-) by Ditch Mitch KY on Mon Aug 18, 2014 at 07:42:46 PM PDT [ Parent ] * [new] City officials try to say it's not about revenue.. (25+ / 0-) They try to tell people with a straight face that the redlight and speed cameras are about public safety and not a revenue grab. I urge everyone who gets a photo enforcement ticket to contest it, and go to court, if you can. Cities are counting on you paying this like a tax without them having to expend much in the way of resources... Don't give them the satisfaction. I've heard that in some areas, these citations are frequently thrown out when challenged. They won't be thrown out if people don't contest them. Aside from the fact that photo enforcement is chickenshit, it doesn't address any of the nuance that is required in driving safely. by SixSixSix on Mon Aug 18, 2014 at 05:06:51 PM PDT [ Parent ] * [new] I was told by an ex-cop that some towns in his (25+ / 0-) state had moved the 'No right turn on red' signs further back from the corners to increase revenue. If you drive past it without noticing you will then make that turn as opposed to having the sign visible to you at the corner. It's a business. With the decriminalization of marijuana the slack will need to be made up somewhere. America has a need to create law breakers, criminals and scary boogeymen as profit generators for the law enforcement, prison and security industries and the MIC. America has a NEED for bad guys and will create them if necessary. Another way to extract wealth from the general population. by flavor411 on Mon Aug 18, 2014 at 06:00:55 PM PDT [ Parent ] * [new] Hopefully MJ legalization will increase revenues.. (10+ / 0-) I am generally against sin taxes, but just basic sales and income taxes generated by a legal MJ industry should boost revenue to benefit local coffers. The hope is that cities will rely less on citations for revenue. That said, once something has proven to be an easy revenue stream, it will be hard to get local governments to give it up. Of course I think you're dead right that America needs boogeymen and irrational fear to justify the insane industries that have developed around surveillance, law enforcement, the MIC and war on drugs. Unfortunately, when we buy into what we're being sold, we're guaranteeing the entire boondoggle that's ripping us off and imprisoning folks. by SixSixSix on Mon Aug 18, 2014 at 06:53:02 PM PDT [ Parent ] * [new] Baltimore and DC (11+ / 0-) Baltimore has one red light camera at the end of 295 near the stadium that you can see taking picture after picture after picture when a game is letting out and the police officers are directing people to move through the intersection while the light is red (at least this was the situation 10-15 years ago; they may have improved it since then). I seem to remember getting a ticket under these circumstances once, but it was just easier to simply pay the $75 than to try and contest it. DC has a few parking places that parking signs say are legal, but that are not actually legal (DC law states that pavement markings and the actual situation take precedence over any signs that may be present); it's easy to write tickets for these spaces... by lurker123 on Mon Aug 18, 2014 at 07:01:57 PM PDT [ Parent ] * [new] You can challenge these by chain of custody... (7+ / 0-) In many municipalities, there are very specific guidelines for paper trails when issuing citations to citizens. These photos are processed out of state which violates chain of custody rules. I have successfully challenged these tickets and have lots of precedent I take to court and distribute to other defendants who have read through my material and successfully challenged their citations. This practice of photo citations is nothing more than citizen harassment is often illegal. I also protested loudly about speed traps on streets leading to a local mall. I pointed out how the practice discourages folks from shopping and how I personally would never shop at that mall again because of the speed traps and I would launch a campaign against the mall identifying the speed traps. The traps were pulled a year ago and haven't returned. Energy is neither created nor destroyed; it only changes form. by SME in Seattle on Tue Aug 19, 2014 at 03:12:39 AM PDT [ Parent ] * [new] Yes! Great information. (1+ / 0-) This citation as taxation system, in addition to being regressive, is often counter-productive. Most cities are struggling with trying to encourage people to visit, shop and dine. As an example, a couple of years ago, Oakland, CA tried to expand parking hours to 8:30 PM, and charge on Sundays and Holidays. Local small business owners raised bloody hell, as well they should have. Earn revenues the right and old-fashioned way... By providing services people benefit from, and creating an environment where people want to come spend money. Treating the public like hosts for parasitic revenue grabs just encourages people to stay away. by SixSixSix on Tue Aug 19, 2014 at 03:56:05 PM PDT [ Parent ] * [new] I got a ticket, technically in the next county, (10+ / 0-) but written by a sheriff from mine. I hadn't been speeding so I contested it. We both showed up in the other county's court, stood up and waited while the judge looked at the file. He looked up at the cop and asked about some form that wasn't there. The cop got real interested in his shoes, shuffled and finally whined about it costing the county over $30 each time they filed one of the forms. Judge looked at him for a beat, looked at me, tapped his gavel and said, 'dismissed'. Incident made me wonder about a couple of things; That $30+ would have significantly cut into the profit if I hadn't challenged the ticket, (so my county was counting on people to just pay, the House wins), and the cop obviously expected the judge to overlook the defect and levy the fine anyway. He was definitely off balance having to articulate why he hadn't filed the form. He seemed to expect the judge to be in on it and overlook the problem. Made me wonder what percentage of traffic citations in my county would show up with the same defect if an audit were done, (and if that % would be consistent over the years). Information is abundant, wisdom is scarce. ~The Druid. ~Ideals aren't goals, they're navigation aids.~ by FarWestGirl on Tue Aug 19, 2014 at 03:55:12 AM PDT [ Parent ] * [new] One of the small municipalities (5+ / 0-) In St. Louis county is Wellston. I had a buddy who loved to drive fast and his normal route took him through Wellston. He accumulated a large number of tickets, all dismissed, because the city did not want to spend the $500 to have its radar gun calibrated. by mmcnary on Tue Aug 19, 2014 at 06:30:45 AM PDT [ Parent ] * [new] lol The concept of investment apparently eludes (3+ / 0-) them. So they made money on all those who just paid up and lost it on all the ones who would show up. Too funny. Information is abundant, wisdom is scarce. ~The Druid. ~Ideals aren't goals, they're navigation aids.~ by FarWestGirl on Tue Aug 19, 2014 at 07:36:43 AM PDT [ Parent ] * [new] One of the 'tricks' that is used with RLC's (8+ / 0-) is to 'adjust' the timing of the yellow signal, so that it switches to red faster than expected. Legally, the timing of the signal is set according to the speed limit of the street/highway, based on an engineering study. But the companies that install (and run) the red-light cameras will gloss over this detail to the city council, who will then approve all changes required for the 'installation'. This means that you may be able to get a red-light-camera setup completely invalidated with a little research - find another traffic light without the camera on the same street, subject to the same speed limit and general traffic pattern, and take video of BOTH lights. If you catch a timing disparity with the camera-equipped light, call the local traffic and civil engineering people and file a complaint - give them a copy of your video with the timestamps clearly showing the differences. The object of course isn't to skip out on the ticket; it is to systematically increase costs to the city in maintaining the cameras, such that the company running the camera scam can no longer make a profit. Once they're in the red, they'll bail out, leaving the city with non-monitored equipment. If your sole and entire rationale for doing something is 'It's not illegal.' then perhaps you should rethink doing it. by dcnblues on Tue Aug 19, 2014 at 08:54:49 AM PDT [ Parent ] * [new] In England it is an underground sport (15+ / 0-) They 'necklace' the speed camera control boxes with a fuel filled tire and then ignite it. And the pictures of the aftermath are posted on the internet. Particularly hated speed cameras are struck repeatedly. Just sayin' by reddog1 on Mon Aug 18, 2014 at 05:58:26 PM PDT [ Parent ] * [new] Interesting though I find the term (7+ / 0-) 'necklacing' objectionable considering the origin of the word. Necklacing is the practice of summary execution and torture carried out by forcing a rubber tire, filled with petrol, around a victim's chest and arms, and setting it on fire. The victim may take up to 20 minutes to die, suffering severe burns in the process. by NeverThere on Mon Aug 18, 2014 at 07:31:29 PM PDT [ Parent ] * [new] Obviously this isn't the same, is it? (2+ / 0-) Change 'tire' to 'tyre' and maybe you'll feel better. I've never heard your version so I like the one I have heard much better and I think I'll keep it and reject yours. by reddog1 on Mon Aug 18, 2014 at 10:39:03 PM PDT [ Parent ] * [new] You'd get sent to Guantanamo (0+ / 0-) for that sort of thing here in the Land of the Free They tell me I'm pretty amusing from time to time working with 140 characters or less. by CharlieHipHop on Tue Aug 19, 2014 at 07:18:24 PM PDT [ Parent ] * [new] Read Matt Taibi (60+ / 0-) The Divide is the latest one, all about just this type of shit all over Murika.... There is indeed a crime in being poor these days in America, but if one is rich one can do no crime, period. by lizzyh7 on Mon Aug 18, 2014 at 02:32:58 PM PDT * [new] It's no secret. (71+ / 0-) We have an apartheid society in terms of race, class and justice. If you're working or middle class you're screwed. If you're poor you're even more screwed. If you are a poor minority than you are the most screwed of all. People are happy to be oblivious as long as they are not personally touched, but as our society crumble around us, we are all touched. If we live in the midst of injustice we are touched. And if we know about it and tolerate it than we are corrupted as well. 'Human kindness has never weakened the stamina or softened the fiber of a free people. A nation does not have to be cruel to be tough.' FDR by Phoebe Loosinhouse on Mon Aug 18, 2014 at 02:40:53 PM PDT [ Parent ] * [new] Thanks for this important diary! Wish I cld Rec^3 (9+ / 0-) Looking at incentive structures -- 'cui bono' -- is always illuminating. Thank you, thank you, thank you! by BvueDem on Mon Aug 18, 2014 at 03:10:26 PM PDT [ Parent ] * [new] What you're describing sounds like an extortion (73+ / 0-) racket run by a heavily armed criminal gang. Someone should alert the authorities. by Lost and Found on Mon Aug 18, 2014 at 02:36:10 PM PDT * [new] That's pretty much what it is... There are 93... (32+ / 0-) municipalities in St. Louis County, many with populations that number in the hundreds. Some are notorious speed traps. It's about revenue. No question. The worst thing about St. Louis is Missouri. by duckhunter on Mon Aug 18, 2014 at 02:43:14 PM PDT [ Parent ] * [new] it is indeed and this town is not the only one (1+ / 0-) extorting its citizens. by dylanfan on Tue Aug 19, 2014 at 07:58:24 AM PDT [ Parent ] * [new] The issue of traffic tickets is important... (84+ / 0-) ...too. I've interviewed numerous activists on the North Side of St. Louis (economically depressed, mostly black) and nearly all of them have, at one point, told me the same thing: what good is job training or jobs if people can't legally drive to work? They can't drive to work because their licenses are suspended or revoked from the inability to pay traffic fines. One activist told me that in his view, there almost appears to be a concerted effort among cops in north StL County to issue tickets they know people won't be able to pay as a means of getting them off the streets altogether. Combined with poverty and a court system that is not user friendly.... One group up there told me that is one of their biggest issues, so much so that they devote significant resources just trying to help people be legally able to drive so they can get to the jobs they are finding for them. Or, so they can drive to the nearest supermarket and stretch their food budget further, rather than blowing it all on overpriced junk food at the convenience store... by RerumCognoscereCausas on Mon Aug 18, 2014 at 02:36:12 PM PDT * [new] I read this and think (39+ / 0-) about those perfectly godawful Big-Brother-is-watching-you traffic cams they had at intersections all over the Bay Area there for a few years. You run a red light, the camera snaps your picture from the front, with your license plate, and a few days later you get your traffic warrant in the mail. No cop involved, ever. The kicker is, these things were way more common in poor neighborhoods than in well-to-do areas. Poor people are easier to intimidate, maybe. Better source of revenue. Thanks for the diary. 'Come, come, whoever you are. Wanderer, worshiper, lover of leaving. It doesn't matter. Ours is not a caravan of despair. Come, even if you have broken your vows a thousand times. Come, yet again, come, come.' --Rumi by karmsy on Mon Aug 18, 2014 at 02:36:27 PM PDT * [new] They still have them (28+ / 0-) I regret to say, I know this from personal experience of a few months ago in SF, at a light that was so confusing and poorly marked I never even saw that there was a turn arrow until after the picture was taken. (I don't live there and was not familiar with the intersection.) The ticket was >$400! That is not chump change. by pat of butter in a sea of grits on Mon Aug 18, 2014 at 03:36:59 PM PDT [ Parent ] * [new] They still have them, but far fewer. (25+ / 0-) They put them up first in San Francisco, to trap these white men in nice cars that repeatedly ran red lights in affluent neighborhoods, apparently. They spread all over the Bay Area, as I've noted, being more concentrated in poor areas. Citizen activists, in recent years, have made headway in getting them removed. Their chief complaint is that they snap pictures if you're doing nothing whatsoever wrong, perhaps just sitting at a red light. You still get your nasty notice in the mail, and have to take up your time to go to court, blah, blah, blah. Now, I hate these things, because with the best of intentions, you can confused at an unfamiliar intersection, or one that's basically a trap. It's never happened to me, but your story is all too plausible, unfortunately. Imagine you're some little church-going grandma in East Oakland. You get one of these awful things, or your family member, and you want to do the right thing. But you can't cough up the $400 in one piece anytime soon. They have you on fees, in that case. They have you on interest. It is such a racket. 'Come, come, whoever you are. Wanderer, worshiper, lover of leaving. It doesn't matter. Ours is not a caravan of despair. Come, even if you have broken your vows a thousand times. Come, yet again, come, come.' --Rumi by karmsy on Mon Aug 18, 2014 at 04:01:58 PM PDT [ Parent ] * [new] Here in the far east, too. n/t (7+ / 0-) '...[Among] which are life, liberty, the enjoyment of the fruit of their own labor, and the pursuit of happiness.' by Yasuragi on Mon Aug 18, 2014 at 04:24:26 PM PDT [ Parent ] * [new] San Diego eliminated the red light cameras (18+ / 0-) early last year. Actually, Bob Filner, then the mayor, got rid of them. The net income to the city was only about $200k, there was no evidence that the cameras improved safety, and the tickets really pissed off some tourists. The cameras were removed in several Southern California cities, including Los Angeles. by SoCalSal on Mon Aug 18, 2014 at 05:18:54 PM PDT [ Parent ] * [new] Yup, (0+ / 0-) I can vouch for LA. We got rid of those benighted things. Too many people getting into accidents because of them. We STILL need Everybody In, Nobody Out health care in the USA. by PanoramaCityChick on Tue Aug 19, 2014 at 10:48:18 AM PDT [ Parent ] * [new] $120 ticket for stopping in front of BART station (13+ / 0-) Everyone beware. Stop only in the passenger loading zone. by Time Waits for no Woman on Mon Aug 18, 2014 at 05:27:02 PM PDT [ Parent ] * [new] a lot of them (17+ / 0-) belong to the camera company, and the local authorities get a cut of the money. Not necessarily a majority of it, either. It's a for-profit business. (Is it time for the pitchforks and torches yet?) by PJEvans on Mon Aug 18, 2014 at 05:27:27 PM PDT [ Parent ] * [new] The City of Campbell (Bay Area) had 'em (5+ / 0-) but took them out some years back - I think there was a legal issue with enforcing the tickets. On the other hand ... San Jose has lost a few hundred police officers over the past few years due to a so-called pension reform the city enacted. So traffic enforcement is not a high priority. I think most other local cities, too, except the very affluent ones, are not putting much effort there. There's a mid-size city street where I'm working presently that is a 35 zone and it's got stop lights and lots of in out traffic from the local business, but many people are driving on it like a freeway. I wouldn't mind a traffic camera or two there, personally. by Slightly Wobbly on Mon Aug 18, 2014 at 08:36:15 PM PDT [ Parent ] * [new] Redlight camera companies may get half the fine! (6+ / 0-) see this for some interesting (but possibly a bit oldish information). Sometimes the yellow light time is shortened significantly in order to increase number of violations (and often accidents at the light!). Real plastic here; none of that new synthetic stuff made from chicken feathers. By the morning of 9/12/2001 the people of NYC had won the War on Terror. by triplepoint on Mon Aug 18, 2014 at 11:32:12 PM PDT [ Parent ] * [new] It's just like a lot of towns, I bet (9+ / 0-) I don't think I'm going too far out on a limb to say that many other towns are probably similar. Streichholzschächtelchen by otto on Mon Aug 18, 2014 at 02:37:06 PM PDT * [new] ferguson did hire a PR group (17+ / 0-) an all-white group -8.25, -7.13 'Well, on second thought, let's not go to Camelot -- it is a silly place.' 'Right' by leathersmith on Mon Aug 18, 2014 at 02:46:41 PM PDT * [new] Of course it was all white. nt (9+ / 0-) ' Armageddon could be knocking at my door. But I ain't gonna answer that's for sure.' - Kristian Bush, Jennifer Nettles, Kristen Hall by rustypatina on Mon Aug 18, 2014 at 02:54:49 PM PDT [ Parent ] * [new] Seriously? (24+ / 0-) This whole things just gets shittier by the minute. Will someone please pull St. Louis County's head out of its collective ass? The only one actually doing his job right now, appropriately and legitimately, is Capt. Ron Johnson. I wish this was farce. This would be WAY more amusing as farce. 'If Gov. Wallace doesn't do something the Feds will have to come in. Oh did I say Wallace?' -- BentLiberal by Colorado is the Shiznit on Mon Aug 18, 2014 at 03:25:03 PM PDT [ Parent ] * [new] It actually reads like a (21+ / 0-) Dave Chappelle skit at many points Words can sometimes, in moments of grace, attain the quality of deeds. --Elie Wiesel by a gilas girl on Mon Aug 18, 2014 at 03:27:53 PM PDT [ Parent ] * [new] It totally does. (12+ / 0-) Actually, the only people who could potentially make this funny are Dave Chapelle, Chris Rock, and John Oliver. 'If Gov. Wallace doesn't do something the Feds will have to come in. Oh did I say Wallace?' -- BentLiberal by Colorado is the Shiznit on Mon Aug 18, 2014 at 03:30:50 PM PDT [ Parent ] * [new] Except it stops being funny when there's a dead (16+ / 0-) kid laying in the street. Where is this worshipping the almighty dollar over everything in America eventually going to lead us? It's not a very bright future. More like Pottersvilles in 'It's a Wonderful Life' by flavor411 on Mon Aug 18, 2014 at 06:11:15 PM PDT [ Parent ] * [new] Except... (6+ / 0-) I don't think anyone ever got shot down in the street in cold blood in a Frank Capra tableau Words can sometimes, in moments of grace, attain the quality of deeds. --Elie Wiesel by a gilas girl on Mon Aug 18, 2014 at 07:22:17 PM PDT [ Parent ] * [new] Potterville cop Burt took a couple of shots at (1+ / 0-) the non-existent George Bailey. That he missed was probably more a function of getting to a Happy Ending than of Burt's targeting ability. We build on foundations we did not lay. We warm ourselves by fires we did not light. We sit in the shade of trees we did not plant... We are ever bound in community.-Peter Raible by SilentBrook on Tue Aug 19, 2014 at 12:52:05 PM PDT [ Parent ] * [new] Excellent diary -- I was wondering about (64+ / 0-) something like this. How does a tiny little poor municipality employ 50+ police officers in the first place? They're not really police officers, is how. They're really just heavily armed tax collectors stealing from the poor.l by this is only a test on Mon Aug 18, 2014 at 02:51:38 PM PDT * [new] The Ferguson PD is a parasite sucking the life... (41+ / 0-) ...out of the people. Worse than a gang. Daily Kos an oasis of truth. Truth that leads to action. UID: 9742 by Shockwave on Mon Aug 18, 2014 at 02:53:53 PM PDT * [new] Absolutely. (14+ / 0-) And as we know from cognitive dissonance theory, unacknowledged guilt causes aggression against the victims and justification of the crimes against them. We are watching it play out in graphic and agonizing detail. 'The modern conservative is engaged in one of man's oldest exercises in moral philosophy; that is, the search for a superior moral justification for selfishness.' —John Kenneth Galbraith by eyeswideopen on Mon Aug 18, 2014 at 03:42:30 PM PDT [ Parent ] * [new] The sunlight is starting (20+ / 0-) to shine on the cockroaches. The Ferguson PD is a parasite sucking the life... ...out of the people. Worse than a gang. Taking everything into account, plus all the other abuses these people have to endure...Is it any wonder they have not rioted in the streets? As a white middle age American man, I am livid at the injustice being perpetrated in and around Ferguson. So here is a question for authoritarian white America. If all this shit that is happeing to the people of Ferguson were reversed and happening exactly the same in an almost all white area...Where would the anger level be? 'We can either have democracy in this country or we can have great wealth concentrated in the hands of a few, but we can't have both.' Louis Brandeis by wxorknot on Mon Aug 18, 2014 at 05:38:02 PM PDT [ Parent ] * [new] Great question (4+ / 0-) But of course those White people think the Black people deserve it. Just read some message boards. I thought maybe SF was more liberal and at least look at the oppression many Blacks have experienced for decades. But her in Lilly White (Christian) Utah, most here hate the illegals, the poor who are taking their tax dollars for food, and I won't even mention what they are saying about the people in Ferguson. 'I find it incredible that Keith Alexander can sell secrets and is free to make a huge profit without being slammed with Espionage Act charges and Snowden is stateless' Jesselyn Radack. by snoopydawg on Mon Aug 18, 2014 at 09:18:13 PM PDT [ Parent ] * [new] Here in lily white (3+ / 0-) Utah they certainly have an opinion, and from their POV the police can do no wrong. I try and explain and...All the stereotypes come flying out of their mouths. BTW snoopy I am here in the Salt Lake Valley. You? 'We can either have democracy in this country or we can have great wealth concentrated in the hands of a few, but we can't have both.' Louis Brandeis by wxorknot on Tue Aug 19, 2014 at 03:18:03 AM PDT [ Parent ] * [new] I too have read (4+ / 0-) some of the message boards and I am sickened by the hate. Furthermore, they who hate like this are removed from reality in a way they can never be reasoned with. For the life of me, how anyone can justify his death. But it's there. That is why I mention the reversed rolls. If it was them it was happening to, the tune would be fucking different. 'We can either have democracy in this country or we can have great wealth concentrated in the hands of a few, but we can't have both.' Louis Brandeis by wxorknot on Tue Aug 19, 2014 at 03:36:13 AM PDT [ Parent ] * [new] I grew up in Jennings... (19+ / 0-) All of those municipalities are like that. They target people for minor infractions so they can build up the cities' revenues. I couldn't wait to leave that place, and I have no desire to every return. by happycozy on Mon Aug 18, 2014 at 02:58:05 PM PDT * [new] It's the ghost of noun verb nine eleven (9+ / 0-) AuthoritariansConservatives get hot and bothered thinking about giuliani's 'zero tolerance' policing policies. Fine and arrest brownpoor people for being alive and crime will go down. by Dr Colossus on Mon Aug 18, 2014 at 03:07:55 PM PDT * [new] This is very true in northeast Texas where I live (23+ / 0-) in a town of 4 wards. The poorest ward is where the police regularly patrol and write tickets. And none of these people have a ghost of chance of not being guilty no matter what. There is even rules if you get 4 tickets you can loose your license and then you can't work. The town's statistics says there are 2 burglaries every night but nothing is done to solve them. and the truth is the reason they do nothing is that burglary is black on black crime. If it was white, the dogs would be out literally. Being white, educated, and liberal is a crime also and is why I am trying to save money to leave. by yoduuuh do or do not on Mon Aug 18, 2014 at 03:08:15 PM PDT * [new] Oh My God. Dear Lord. Oh Crapomatic. (38+ / 0-) I had not even thought of this. If this is widespread and as horrifyingly awful as you say, we have a case. We have a case. Systematic abuse and economic harassment of people of color by targeting them for court fees. NOW my blood is boiling. Really. This one. And it explains the gunplay as well. Families who refuse to pay, make it a hassle to collect, or act 'insolently' while paying are targeted. Easy enough to do. They know your address.. And I thought 'In the Heat of the Night' was a historical drama. Nope. Figures don't lie, but liars do figure-Mark Twain by OregonOak on Mon Aug 18, 2014 at 03:11:43 PM PDT * [new] FEDERAL case. CIVIL RIGHTS case. The rock has (33+ / 0-) been lifted, and what's scurrying for cover ain't pretty. by nils o on Mon Aug 18, 2014 at 03:22:49 PM PDT [ Parent ] * [new] The Chief better Dance for Cover.. (15+ / 0-) and probably name names. This is a bad, bad, bad practice and if it was found, or is found here, there are people going to jail, and they are not the Usual Suspects. Figures don't lie, but liars do figure-Mark Twain by OregonOak on Mon Aug 18, 2014 at 03:27:13 PM PDT [ Parent ] * [new] I can't decide who I dislike more, (13+ / 0-) the chief of police or the mayor. It's a toss up, but right now, the chief definitely has more douchebag points. 'If Gov. Wallace doesn't do something the Feds will have to come in. Oh did I say Wallace?' -- BentLiberal by Colorado is the Shiznit on Mon Aug 18, 2014 at 03:33:02 PM PDT [ Parent ] * [new] I agree. But give it time. The Mayor will speak.. (12+ / 0-) and his douchebag point total is guaranteed to rebound. We are still in the bottom second inning, by my scorecard. Lots of hits, no runs, and TONS of errors. This is looking like pickup Tball at the church playground..if it werent tragic, it would be almost funny. Almost. But not. This is still life and death, and for more than Ferguson. Metaphors need not apply. Figures don't lie, but liars do figure-Mark Twain by OregonOak on Mon Aug 18, 2014 at 03:37:11 PM PDT [ Parent ] * [new] But Mayor Rotund gave us a highlight film moment (11+ / 0-) When he said his town doesn't have a history of racial tension, he showed us he's not giving up easily. by Cardinal Fang on Mon Aug 18, 2014 at 03:57:02 PM PDT [ Parent ] * [new] I thought it was Mayor Florid.. (3+ / 0-) All red and puffy.. really, what is that man eating? He looks like a flounder brought up from 10 fathoms all puffed up like that. Figures don't lie, but liars do figure-Mark Twain by OregonOak on Mon Aug 18, 2014 at 07:14:35 PM PDT [ Parent ] * [new] The ex-mayor of Ferguson was on PBS last week (16+ / 0-) The asshat explained why minorities are stopped more often. They are poor! (he damn near came straight out and said it on national TV). Because they are poor their vehicles aren't properly registered or insured and they are more likely to be stopped. I couldn't believe what he was saying. Ostensibly, the interview was about the disparity between the racial makeup of the Ferguson police force and the Ferguson community, but it was much more than that. If you haven't seen this, you really should watch, starting at about the 4 minute mark. http://video.pbs.org/... by reddog1 on Mon Aug 18, 2014 at 06:32:41 PM PDT [ Parent ] * [new] Watched it.. (10+ / 0-) First, are there any African American community leaders we could hear from? PBS has more of a responsibility to bring us a balanced view, and not merely the upper middle class view. I understand the point the ex mayor is making, but to me, it still sounds like racial profiling for routine stops. It is the responsibility of the State of Missouri to make access to driving a statewide concern, and if people are excluded because simply of cost, that is a version of racial and economic profiling which keeps people away from their jobs. The local police departments should use discretion there anyway. No tags is not a felony, and it should not be allowed to start a train of legal jeopardy for local residents. Secondly, it seems as if the ex mayor approved of police tactics. This raises red flags. Others, the newspaper editor for one, argued that the most harsh and military tactics need to go away in favor of a more traditional police presence. That seems reasonable and rational to me. And the ex mayor never mentioned any culpability for the police officer involved except to say the surrounding municipalities take the good officers and AA officers away because of higher salaries, but he never argued for a Unified St. Louis County/Municipality force under one administration. Seems to me the division into tiny jurisdictions is the first thing to go after this. All officers in similar jobs and locations need to be paid the same high salary, because their quality is critical. Pay, in our society, determines quality. Same as everywhere. There are solutions here, but the local power structure seems unable or unwilling to entertain or discuss them. I got the impression of a professional stonewaller speaking for offstage actors who are not identified. Time to follow the money trail. Figures don't lie, but liars do figure-Mark Twain by OregonOak on Mon Aug 18, 2014 at 07:07:10 PM PDT [ Parent ] * [new] PBS is part of the corporate elite.... (0+ / 0-) They do have great programming, but the corporate structure is part of elite corporate America. So, when they do these interviews, they are coming from the perspective of white corporate America. Ignorance is the curse of God; knowledge is the wing wherewith we fly to heaven. William Shakespeare by lutznancy on Tue Aug 19, 2014 at 09:06:30 AM PDT [ Parent ] * [new] Rec'd, Tip'd & Tweeted (52+ / 0-) and great reporting of this issue, it makes one alter the color of the lens via which we are viewing the entire #Ferguson conversation. It did me. 3 warrants per household? How in any universe that statistic could be held reasonable or supportable is beyond my comprehension. 'I like paying taxes...with them, I buy Civilization' by Angie in WA State on Mon Aug 18, 2014 at 03:17:37 PM PDT * [new] Per household! 3 per HOUSEHOLD! (30+ / 0-) Holy fucking shit! I don't think I'm ever going to come to terms with this statistic. 'If Gov. Wallace doesn't do something the Feds will have to come in. Oh did I say Wallace?' -- BentLiberal by Colorado is the Shiznit on Mon Aug 18, 2014 at 03:27:11 PM PDT [ Parent ] * [new] So much about #Ferguson is mindboggling (18+ / 0-) to those of us not living in or raised in the #SundownerSouth, I think. I've learned so many ugly truths this past week that I'm on perpetual #outrage now. I can only hope that enough of my Fellow Americans are on the same setting, and willing to do something about it - to get involved politically, which in the end, is the only path to a better future. It's not the people acting so terribly which we can change - but we CAN change the Laws which apply to their behavior, and thus allow the Law to force them to change. It's a slow and convoluted process, to be sure. But what's the alternative? Civil War? We tried that about 150 years ago, and it went rather badly for over 600,000 Americans and their families the last time. :-( 'I like paying taxes...with them, I buy Civilization' by Angie in WA State on Mon Aug 18, 2014 at 03:50:25 PM PDT [ Parent ] * [new] worse (8+ / 0-) after the last time, very little actually changed. (Is it time for the pitchforks and torches yet?) by PJEvans on Mon Aug 18, 2014 at 05:29:29 PM PDT [ Parent ] * [new] and it's 150+ years later, too (10+ / 0-) I know. Depressing De-motivating But again, what is the alternative? We must do something, because so far as I know this old bromide still holds true: Evil flourishes when (wo)men of good will do nothing. 'I like paying taxes...with them, I buy Civilization' by Angie in WA State on Mon Aug 18, 2014 at 06:35:30 PM PDT [ Parent ] * [new] Fantastic, illuminating article. (18+ / 0-) I hope everyone and their brother gets a chance to read it. This should be FPed. 'If Gov. Wallace doesn't do something the Feds will have to come in. Oh did I say Wallace?' -- BentLiberal by Colorado is the Shiznit on Mon Aug 18, 2014 at 03:18:38 PM PDT * [new] It will get more eyes (10+ / 0-) on the Rec List. It was just linked from a FP Diary. I hope that the quality of debate will improve, but I fear we will remain Democrats. Who is twigg? by twigg on Mon Aug 18, 2014 at 04:12:00 PM PDT [ Parent ] * [new] Where's the Camera's (9+ / 0-) This suburban police force seems to be loaded with all the high tech needs along with a heavily armed swat team as well as enough for the rest. Where are the camera video's from the patrol car of the shooter cop, hell everyone's been employing them if one catches the city and community news around the country. Where's the police on body cams, another police forces are loading up on, all with federal help just like all that invasion force military gear and vehicles!! Where's the footage, if none, why not! Especially in a heavy white police force in a majority minority community!! 'If military action is worth our troops' blood, it should be worth our treasure, too; not just in the abstract, but in the form of a specific ante by every American.' -Andrew Rosenthal 10 Feb. 2013 by jimstaro on Mon Aug 18, 2014 at 03:27:37 PM PDT * [new] In case you hadn't heard (17+ / 0-) They had ordered dash cams, and they have come in, but they are still in the boxes waiting to be installed. I haven't heard whether that is also the case with body cams. MRAPs are a bigger priority, I guess. La majestueuse égalité des lois, qui interdit au riche comme au pauvre de coucher sous les ponts, de mendier dans les rues, et de voler du pain. by dconrad on Mon Aug 18, 2014 at 04:19:10 PM PDT [ Parent ] * [new] SWAT team and their toys (3+ / 0-) belong to St. Louis County. Money is property, not speech. Overturn Citizens United. by Betty Pinson on Mon Aug 18, 2014 at 06:08:14 PM PDT [ Parent ] * [new] Bantustan, USA (6+ / 0-) The thing about quotes on the internet is you cannot confirm their validity. ~Abraham Lincoln by raboof on Mon Aug 18, 2014 at 03:32:12 PM PDT * [new] Thanks. Really does clear things up. (28+ / 0-) Law enforcement and the court system in Ferguson have become a hostile, parasitic colony. The residents of Ferguson are being blood sucked and soul sucked by something that calls itself the 'Ferguson Police Dept.' and the 'Ferguson Municipal Court', but actually has no concern for the general welfare of people they claim to serve. How to Serve Ferguson--It's a cookbook! As horrified as I was of what Darren Wilson did to Michael Brown, I was more disgusted and upset by the total psychotic indifference displayed by the police who milled about Brown's bleeding corpse for four fucking hours! It's inhuman, a mindless void of empathy stalking about in a meaningless uniform. -4.38, -7.64 Voyager 1: proof that what goes up never comes down. by pat bunny on Mon Aug 18, 2014 at 03:56:07 PM PDT * [new] Taxation via citation is a problem in the U.S... (26+ / 0-) Many areas with poorer tax bases look to raise revenues via fines. It's systemic issue in a lot of places, wrapped up with stagnant or declining wages, a lack of property tax revenue, and the overall culture of paying more money for fewer services. And like most things that suck in this country, poorer and minority citizens are disproportionately effected by these policies. A local example for me is Oakland and Alameda County where people often pay well-below value property taxes as a result of Prop 13 which passed in the late 70's. Because the revenue generated from property taxes is insufficient to fund all the services we want, you start seeing things like $80 parking tickets. And now we're seeing a return to throwing people in jail for not paying fines! Great! by SixSixSix on Mon Aug 18, 2014 at 04:00:54 PM PDT * [new] and the people who benefited most (8+ / 0-) from Prop13 are the same ones who scream about how high taxes are. Hell, one of the local candidate had signs up before the primary with a line about protecting Prop13. (Another one I saw was something about making smog checks every 3rd year - in L.A., that's not going to help: we like less smog.) (Is it time for the pitchforks and torches yet?) by PJEvans on Mon Aug 18, 2014 at 05:32:05 PM PDT [ Parent ] * [new] Yes, Prop 13 has been disastrous... (4+ / 0-) One of the more insidious features of laws like it is that once they're on the books, they're almost impossible to remove. My grandparents were both public employees who campaigned like hell against it, but as they point out, they've also personally benefited enormously from the law. And while they understand it should be repealed, it's really HARD to get people to vote directly against their own financial best interest. A lot of the people who benefit most from Prop 13 are older people who aren't real thrilled about paying more in taxes to fund schools and programs they don't see much benefit from. by SixSixSix on Mon Aug 18, 2014 at 06:42:29 PM PDT [ Parent ] * [new] One of the worst part about Prop. 13... (3+ / 0-) is the way commercial /rental property is dealt with. The assessed value of a property is adjusted at the time of it's sale, which in the case of single family residences averages about once every 7 yrs. Commercial/rental property is, almost exclusively, held as a Limited Liability Corp.. When the property is 'sold', the LLC which owns the property is acquired, but the property never actually changes ownership, hence no reappraisal. Prop. 13 was the beginning of the end for a lot of what made California great. by bluemoonfever on Mon Aug 18, 2014 at 09:07:06 PM PDT [ Parent ] * [new] In Oklahoma (32+ / 0-) it now takes a super-majority in the Legislature to raise taxes. Thanks Republicans. As a consequence, fines and fees on EVERYTHING are rising exponentially. Our school district is now charging a $5 'class fee' for English, in High School. Yes, we are complaining about it. I hope that the quality of debate will improve, but I fear we will remain Democrats. Who is twigg? by twigg on Mon Aug 18, 2014 at 04:14:15 PM PDT * [new] What are you going to do (11+ / 0-) when property taxes dry up? They've had white flight, the people remaining are not well-to-do, to say the least, so they try to make up the revenue through fines and fees. Can it get any more Dickensian? (Don't answer that.) La majestueuse égalité des lois, qui interdit au riche comme au pauvre de coucher sous les ponts, de mendier dans les rues, et de voler du pain. by dconrad on Mon Aug 18, 2014 at 04:14:46 PM PDT * [new] Like all things in America today (22+ / 0-) Literally everything has a profit opportunity attached to be extracted from it. Dying babies. Being born black. Court dates. Traffic lights. Speed detection cameras. Any and everything is being gamed to generate revenue. I'm really starting to detest my own country. Of the almost 1,900 dead Palestinians, the IDF said it killed '900 terrorists' in Gaza. Add that to its long list of lies. by pajoly on Mon Aug 18, 2014 at 04:21:38 PM PDT * [new] Public education, publicly funded highways (11+ / 0-) Pensions, parking meters, veterans health care - the list is endless. The lobbying industry thrives on capitalists who can't survive without privatizing more and more taxpayer funded programs and assets. Money is property, not speech. Overturn Citizens United. by Betty Pinson on Mon Aug 18, 2014 at 06:00:41 PM PDT [ Parent ] * [new] It's surreally stunning to realize (17+ / 0-) that the country that gave the world the Declaration of Independence and the US Constitution, the steamship, telegraph, telephone and light bulb, powered flight, the transistor, integrated circuit and internet, and put men on the moon and brought them back safely, is still operating according to racial norms that were considered by many to be sadistic and cruel back in the 1820's. We've move ahead in so many ways, but on this, we're still stuck in the antebellum era. 'Reagan's dead, and he was a lousy president' -- Keith Olbermann 4/22/09 by kovie on Mon Aug 18, 2014 at 04:23:39 PM PDT * [new] Why hasn't anyone invented a bigot detector? eom (0+ / 0-) If we abandon our allies and their issues, who will defend us and ours? by Bryce in Seattle on Tue Aug 19, 2014 at 02:33:17 AM PDT [ Parent ] * [new] this is actually common knowledge to the white (27+ / 0-) residents of ferguson. I have a friend who lives there (a poor, white male). He got his house on the cheap. So one weekend, we out of towners were vising this friend and I had noticed the very severe segregation in this little neighborhood. The bars, the grocery stores, the gas station, it was all very segregated and growing up in florida, this was surprising to me to see this divide so far north. Naturally i asked what happens when a black person drives through the 'white' part of of town. My friend matter of fact said, 'oh, the cops get called'. The interesting thing is that while we got gas and food in the 'black' part of town, no cops were called on us (obviously because we are all white). So the SOP even among the citizens of ferguson is to call the cops when anyone NOT white should even PASS through a white part of town. The place is fucking sick. Earth: Mostly harmless ~ The Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy (revised entry) by yawnimawke on Mon Aug 18, 2014 at 04:44:38 PM PDT * [new] LA in 2011: 42 arrests per 1000 people. (16+ / 0-) In Ferguson it's something like 500 arrests per 1000? 12,000 cases for 24,000 people? Not sure I'm comparing the same thing, but still... woof. 'Nuthatch? No wonder tablets suck!' by bubbanomics on Mon Aug 18, 2014 at 04:57:25 PM PDT * [new] I-270 at the northern border (2+ / 0-) They're probably collecting a lot of fines from speed traps on the interstate and at exit ramp intersections - not necessarily citizens of Ferguson. I-270 is a very, very busy belt loop highway around St. Louis. St. Louis Community College is also in their city limits. They probably make a lot of money ticketing students. Money is property, not speech. Overturn Citizens United. by Betty Pinson on Mon Aug 18, 2014 at 06:07:07 PM PDT [ Parent ] * [new] Ferguson isnt only city to shift more toward fines (13+ / 0-) for more of its revenue. Thousands of municipalities across the country have adopted this strategy with things like 'Red Light Cameras' (Right turn cameras). Then there's the obscene practice of local governments of charging prisoners for their incarceration. 'The Democrats and the Republicans are equally corrupt where money is concerned. It's only in the amount where the Republicans excel.' ~ Will Rogers by Lefty Coaster on Mon Aug 18, 2014 at 05:00:10 PM PDT * [new] Welcome to Plantation Noveau (9+ / 0-) We Gotta keep Da Law and Order Machinery Fed properly !!! Everyone (that doesn't have paper white skin) will have to make Sacrifices. On Giving Advice: Smart People Don't Need It and Stupid People Don't Listen by Brian76239 on Mon Aug 18, 2014 at 05:20:12 PM PDT * [new] Lots of towns on the Philadelphia Main Line (17+ / 0-) do the same fucking thing, albeit for different reasons See a car pulled over, you don't even have to look. 4 out of 5 of the drivers are black. Where the population of these suburban boroughs is literally 98% white. They're sending a message--'we don't want you here.' And they're collecting revenue. Lots of it. by Dartagnan on Mon Aug 18, 2014 at 05:24:16 PM PDT (9+ / 0-)* [new] Unfortunately this Isn't just happening in Ferguson. It is a nationwide problem That is so out of control. by Katychicago on Mon Aug 18, 2014 at 05:52:03 PM PDT * [new] Ferguson today exactly like any AL town, 1949 (14+ / 0-) They say they've got no race problems, that everybody gets along real nice; their cops are 'good cops' who never have had any complaints made against them; the whites have complete run of the town while the blacks are restricted to a few limited areas; the whites 'Love and support' their all-white police force while the blacks fear it; city hall and all positions of power are 100% white make-up even though blacks constitute the majority of the population .... Investigate the town further and you'll find so many similarities between it and a Deep South town of the early '50s you'd think you entered a time warp. The greatest illusion the whites of Ferguson have is that they run a fine, decent, neighborly town, when it is exactly the opposite. Perception is reality. Only radical change can alter mass false perception. Who or what is going to radically change the perception of the whites of Ferguson? 'Yes, I'm alone, but I'm alone and free' - Queen Elsa by fourthcornerman on Mon Aug 18, 2014 at 06:00:39 PM PDT * [new] It is time for America to wake up and smell the (18+ / 0-) rot. It is disgusting, the more you learn about these practices which are so much worse than I'd thought. Thank you for the diary on this!! 'Let me be clear here: Pointing a gun at an innocent person is an act of violence and provocation.' ~ Charles Blow by Gorette on Mon Aug 18, 2014 at 06:02:44 PM PDT * [new] Not just Ferguson (23+ / 0-) My son got in trouble at school his freshman year in Colorado. As a result he had to go into a diversion program. He paid a fine and went to a class and it all went away. Handy to have supportive parents who can afford the fine and get you to class. It didnt hurt that I showed up for the court appointment in full military uniform with enough ribbons to be an acceptable banana republic despot. Knowing the system well we arrived almost an hour early. First there was security screening. No issues for me, I got passed through. I checked my son before getting even close. My wife happened to have a pair of scissors in her purse. Luckily they offered to 'just' confiscated them, otherwise it would have been back to the car. And since my son was under age he would have had to go with her had they been alone. Another trip to security after a round trip to the car - almost 20 minutes because there is no parking anywhere close to the court house. Still no problem because we were early. You had to get checked in at least 15 minutes prior to your 'call time.' Again, no problem, we were early. At call time we went into a room and watched a video tape of the judge tell us about our legal rights and responsibilities. As we sat there I saw one person come in after the just 15 minute prior deadline. They let him slide with a scolding. Right at 15 minutes they had called a bunch of names - people who were on the docket. They did the roll call one more time to send us into the room where the video tape was. One person missed their name being called. They were there but not paying attention and missed the tape. Too bad, bench warrant. Keep in mind it was a TAPE. Another 30 minutes (we did not get called in Alpha order and we 'happened' to be the 3rd call of your group even though that was not the docket order called earlier) and we saw the assistant-assistant-assistant to the Assistant District Attorney. He was incredibly polite and respectful to my chest full of ribbons and metallic devices and in about 5 minutes the whole thing was complete. By that time the person who missed - Im guessing an 18-20 year old black male - had been sent down to a live judge to talk about his bench warrant. So here is how you have a successful interaction wight he court system: 1 - Have a really great job with flexible hours and an understanding boss. All told I missed about 4 hours of work that day. And my 3 hours presence on the day of the incident resulted in my son being released to me, not arrested an booked into jail. Of course because of my job it didnt impact my income at all. 2 - Arrive early. Really early. When I was last in a court room for a ticket I learned to be REALLY early. Maryland courts pull the same lock the doors crap. On the other hand when I was in that Maryland court one officer was part of the first two cases. He didnt show. The judge got mad and skipped to all of his cases immediately. If you were in the room at that moment, case dismissed. If not, bench warrant. Six people who would have had their cases dismissed IF THEY HAD JUST SHOWN UP got bench warrants instead. Back to my sons situation - lets say you are a single mother and work hourly. You probably leave work with just enough time to get there. But you don't count on security screening taking so long and you happen to have something in your purse. Now you are late. Oh and lets say you put the minimum in the meter (because the garage cost 3x as much). If you leave your under age child has to go with you. But if you are gone when they call your name, bench warrant or missed chance for diversion. 3 - Dress well. Being in the military helps. A LOT. Still I am always shocked how many people screw this up. Why arn't you wearing a suit and tie? Or a knee length skirt and a nice blouse with a light coverup? (thats a snark in case you couldn't tell) 4 - Have financial resources. It cost about $250 total (plus the cost of lost wages had I lost any) to get my son's stupidity taken care of. Not something I want to pay daily but manageable…now. At one point that would have meant not eating for the month. At one point that was more than half a months rent. At one point that was 85% of a months pay. But here is the rub - not going into diversion was still going to be about $120 and since it included a long probationary period there was lost of time to screw that up and have to pay more. And of course that is the point. No numbers but I would guess that over time the non-diversion route cost more, just not all up front. 5 - Try really hard not to be black, hispanic, middle eastern or too tan with dark hair. Oh and no screwy names. Best to be named John Johnson because Jamal is going to jail. I have been involved with the courts system as a defendant, witness, observer, character witness, and jury member. A badly dressed white guy is going to get treated better than a well dressed black guy. Unless you have a Charles Manson forehead or arrive in full Hells Angles leathers, being white is a huge advantage. Not having an 'ethnic' name is a big plus unless you can change it to something German or Irish before your court date. Augustus O'Brian would really help. Show up early, bring a bunch of money, be white. Simple stuff. Cant understand why its an issue…………. It is well that war is so terrible -- lest we should grow too fond of it. Robert E. Lee by ksuwildkat on Mon Aug 18, 2014 at 06:18:27 PM PDT * [new] This is so true (4+ / 0-) Also have a kid who did a very stupid (DUI) after a date gone sour. Thankfully no crash, no one was hurt, and the arresting officer who pulled him over on the interstate and took him to jail was professional and decent to him. However, once in the judicial system things got weird really fast. First, you have to get a lawyer who's on good terms with the judge. Probation was a clusterbleep. Appointments canceled or changed or messed up and how are you supposed to take time off work to get there when it's away from public transit and you don't have a license? Had to pay all sorts of fines and fees, which couldn't be paid online, but had to be paid in person. If you miss a payment, and your probation is therefore violated, there's a huge bail, like $10,000, to stay out of jail. He had to take a drug education class, which was a total sham. Meets for something like 20 straight weeks at a location far away from decent public transit ($30 a class). So he and all the other DUIs with suspended licenses had to get off work, take 3 buses etc. to try to get there in time to sign in for a a 10 minute 'class'. If they missed a class because they had to work or for any reason, bus was late etc., they had to start the whole program again and pay the start paying the fees all over. Total judicial racket, and the lawyers and vendors of the drug education classes etc. are totally in on it. His lawyer said he'd have been better off just taking a weekend in jail, but he didn't want to do that. He's lucky he had parents who could pay the huge fees and help him get to all his appointments and classes, because if you miss a payment or class, you're back in the system forever, paying more and more fees to support the messed up system. by this is only a test on Tue Aug 19, 2014 at 09:14:10 AM PDT [ Parent ] * [new] Mind Boggling (6+ / 0-) And Gawd awful. Watch out for the UnderToad ~ The World According To Garp by donaurora on Mon Aug 18, 2014 at 06:18:59 PM PDT * [new] A lot of small towns raise revenue that way (4+ / 0-) 'Despite Ferguson’s relative poverty, fines and court fees comprise the second largest source of revenue for the city, a total of 2,635,400,' according to the ArchCity Defenders report. A lot of small towns use traffic offenses to pay the bills. Even here in a so-called 'blue state'. It sucks because if the cops don't see any violation, I think they make ones up. Don't kid yourselves that it doesn't happen-cops are pressured to write tickets. They don't make sergeant for letting things slide. Where are all the jobs, Boehner? by Dirtandiron on Mon Aug 18, 2014 at 06:21:02 PM PDT * [new] What this diary is describing is a criminal (20+ / 0-) enterprise. The cops barely even realize they are just the goons hired to collect the interest. The line between cops and criminals has always been thin, but I think we can now see that it is entirely been crossed. At this point I would take the criminals, at least with them I have no illusions of what I'm getting into. This isn't an honorable profession anymore. It's a extortion racket and terrorist group. America... just a nation of two hundred million used car salesmen with all the money we need to buy guns and no qualms about killing anybody else in the world who tries to make us uncomfortable. by jjstraka34 on Mon Aug 18, 2014 at 06:24:45 PM PDT * [new] Seamy Underbelly Of Ferguson (5+ / 0-) C'mon people if this story is even remotely true, why in hell hasn't the stae AG or the US AG stepped in and investigated these corrupt assholes? I can't believe that this wasn't known outside Ferguson. by fotobob on Mon Aug 18, 2014 at 06:25:19 PM PDT * [new] This is happening all over the country, (14+ / 0-) not just in Ferguson. And every higher up at the Stet level is complicit in it. It's *Gandhi*, not Ghandi by poco on Mon Aug 18, 2014 at 06:51:06 PM PDT [ Parent ] * [new] This type of abuse (11+ / 0-) No just of minorities but of poor people in general has been quite reported but to no avail because the only solution is to finance the Justice system and not ask it to find the money to work by it self. The NPR story is reason enough to see riots in every city around the country http://www.npr.org/... http://www.scoop.it/... by Iberian on Mon Aug 18, 2014 at 07:11:53 PM PDT [ Parent ] * [new] 21,000 residents? (12+ / 0-) 53 policemen? Can you say 'over policed'? Try Arguing Harder by Illinois IRV on Mon Aug 18, 2014 at 06:33:02 PM PDT * [new] Better number? (0+ / 0-) What's a more appropriate number of police per resident? It's like watching an unknown winning a boxing match vs. the world champ and asking him halfway why he didn't knock his opponent out in the first round. by bsmcneil on Mon Aug 18, 2014 at 08:53:36 PM PDT [ Parent ] * [new] US average is about 24 per 10K. So... (1+ / 0-) Ferguson is a little high. Per 2012 numbers, Washington D.C. is tops in the US at 66 per 10K. Number two is Newark at 47. Chicago is 44, NYC 41, St. Louis 38, Kansas City 29, Los Angles 26, Houston 24, El Paso 17, Anaheim 12. by travelerxxx on Tue Aug 19, 2014 at 02:37:56 AM PDT [ Parent ] * [new] Thank you (0+ / 0-) I was over reacting. Try Arguing Harder by Illinois IRV on Tue Aug 19, 2014 at 07:25:51 PM PDT [ Parent ] * [new] Cops get away with a lot in towns like that (9+ / 0-) 'Despite Ferguson’s relative poverty, fines and court fees comprise the second largest source of revenue for the city, a total of 2,635,400,' according to the ArchCity Defenders report. When they are pushed to write lots of tickets like that, they can very easily get away with harassing people. Because ticketing pays the bills. Where are all the jobs, Boehner? by Dirtandiron on Mon Aug 18, 2014 at 06:33:28 PM PDT * [new] Good catch, their gov treats them like serfs in th (2+ / 0-) e simplest of things. With this attitude, it was only a matter of time until they executed one of the serfs. by chrismorgan on Mon Aug 18, 2014 at 07:04:00 PM PDT * [new] When you apply (8+ / 0-) 'The free market' system to public services you get corruption and self-perpetuating abuse. The Justice system in the USA has seen all kinds of cuts and told by Republicans and market friendly Democrats that it has to sustain it self. And it does, on the backs of the poor, the minorities, the uneducated ... Its fucking predatory in many cases by Iberian on Mon Aug 18, 2014 at 07:07:41 PM PDT * [new] Holy crap. We need this to stop. (10+ / 0-) Protest that works comment by nomandates Registration Table Change the culture 100% registration. by 88kathy on Mon Aug 18, 2014 at 07:22:39 PM PDT * [new] God forbid... (2+ / 0-) That we raise taxes (and close corporate loopholes) in order to assist local governments all over so they wouldn't be so hard pressed for revenue. America truly sucks. It's official. by PivotalGuy on Mon Aug 18, 2014 at 07:58:14 PM PDT * [new] Industrial Feudalism. The king's bullies collect (3+ / 0-) taxes and rents. .. however much they want to on any given day. Happy little moron, Lucky little man. I wish I was a moron, MY GOD, Perhaps I am! —Spike Milligan by polecat on Mon Aug 18, 2014 at 09:26:22 PM PDT * [new] Look at you, writing such (1+ / 0-) a huge diary. This is big. by doc2 on Mon Aug 18, 2014 at 09:30:51 PM PDT * [new] So just saying (1+ / 0-) in the last municipal election almost no one voted, a mere 1500, 6% of black voters and 17% of white voters. And I've tried twice now - a recall election petitionwould put the fear of god in the people making decisions. A lot more than demonstrations will. by NewDealer on Mon Aug 18, 2014 at 09:50:22 PM PDT * [new] How many voters have been disenfranchised (8+ / 0-) due to being felons? Michael Brown had he lived would most likely be a newly minted felon with no right to vote. Then think about one of the favorite voter suppression schemes around the country - those fake flyers that miraculously show up around election time telling people that anyone with outstanding warrants discovered at a polling place will be arrested. Then apply that knowlege to Ferguson, or anywhere else with similar policing and court practices. Suddenly the lack of voter turnout doesn't seem as mysterious. Lots of cogs in this machine. 'Human kindness has never weakened the stamina or softened the fiber of a free people. A nation does not have to be cruel to be tough.' FDR by Phoebe Loosinhouse on Tue Aug 19, 2014 at 04:28:08 AM PDT [ Parent ] * [new] Bells going off. (6+ / 0-) I had not thought of this. Of course the black community is not going to vote. When damn near everyone has a warrant issued against them, why would they take that risk of going to the polls. The authorities know this and they work it and run their own little fiefdom. The rot and stench coming from these criminals reaches a level that even I didn't think was possible. Here at D kos we could run a diary on something different every day and not repeat a one in entire freakin' month. 'We can either have democracy in this country or we can have great wealth concentrated in the hands of a few, but we can't have both.' Louis Brandeis by wxorknot on Tue Aug 19, 2014 at 05:11:12 AM PDT [ Parent ] * [new] How could a place with a 70/30 population (5+ / 0-) of African American/White according to the 2010 census have the following power structure according to the LA TIMES? Ferguson’s police chief and mayor are white. Of the six City Council members, one is black. The local school board has six white members and one Latino. Of the 53 commissioned officers on the police force, three are black, said Ferguson Police Chief Thomas Jackson. Blacks in Ferguson are twice as likely to be stopped by police as whites, according to an annual report on racial profiling by the Missouri attorney general. Last year, 93% of arrests following car stops in Ferguson were of blacks. Ninety-two percent of searches and 80% of car stops involved blacks, the report said. How that happens is starting to become clear. 'Human kindness has never weakened the stamina or softened the fiber of a free people. A nation does not have to be cruel to be tough.' FDR by Phoebe Loosinhouse on Tue Aug 19, 2014 at 05:27:26 AM PDT [ Parent ] * [new] This merits a diary (1+ / 0-) on its own. Would you consider writing about this? It certainly needs more eyes. Your writing is superb and I could never give it the justice it deserves. My deepest thanks for this current diary. Excellent. 'We can either have democracy in this country or we can have great wealth concentrated in the hands of a few, but we can't have both.' Louis Brandeis by wxorknot on Tue Aug 19, 2014 at 05:53:32 AM PDT [ Parent ] * [new] I just attempted to make this an update (1+ / 0-) to the main diary and it vaporized. I will try again. 'Human kindness has never weakened the stamina or softened the fiber of a free people. A nation does not have to be cruel to be tough.' FDR by Phoebe Loosinhouse on Tue Aug 19, 2014 at 06:16:51 AM PDT [ Parent ] * [new] The other reason (2+ / 0-) is that Ferguson went from being mostly white to mostly black over a period of about 20 years. It is rare for entrenched political interests to be overturned exactly simultaneously with changing demographics, and even rarer for those entrenched interests to surrender their power without a struggle. The horrifying abuse you describe is the toxic stew of racism and corruption that could be expected from such a situation. But I have a feeling that, at long last, their day of surrender may be fast approaching. 'The only thing we have to fear is fear itself.'........ 'The test of our progress is not whether we add more to the abundance of those who have much; it is whether we provide enough for those who have too little.' (yeah, same guy.) by sidnora on Wed Aug 20, 2014 at 04:31:37 AM PDT [ Parent ] * [new] PS (1+ / 0-) Great diary. 'The only thing we have to fear is fear itself.'........ 'The test of our progress is not whether we add more to the abundance of those who have much; it is whether we provide enough for those who have too little.' (yeah, same guy.) by sidnora on Wed Aug 20, 2014 at 04:32:11 AM PDT [ Parent ] * [new] The Problem of Govt Fuding by Fines (5+ / 0-) I've been thinking about this problem for a while because it is part of a larger problem where fines imposed for punitive reasons become a perverse incentive to the party the money is awarded to. For example, punitive damages in a civil suit shouldn't be given to the plaintiff because it turns the trial into a lottery. Punitive damages have their use, they're essentially a fine, and they shouldn't go to the government, either, because then there's the potential for political pressure on a judge to put his/her thumb on the scales. I've finally found a solution: punitive fines collected by the government must be redistributed to all citizens. It's the only way I can think of to dilute the money enough that the political pressures ease off. The system would work something like this: fined by your own city -> the money is split equally by all residents of the city, fined by your own county (or another city in your county) -> the money is split by everyone in the county, fined by your own state or a political subdivision of the state you aren't a member of -> the money is split by the whole sate, and fined by any out of state political entity (including federal) -> the money is split by the whole nation. This is, of course, for punitive fines only. For restitutional fines the money would go to the party being made whole. This system would immediately get rid of excessive small town speed traps, red light cameras with too short of a yellow, overly aggressive parking enforcement, etc. It would also make it possible to make punitive fines proportional to income to ensure that they are always painful, but not devastating, no matter how rich or poor the offender. As for how to handle disbursement of the funds, I'm a fan of mailing it to voters after it has been recorded that they voted, or some other way of encouraging civic participation. Worst case it could be sent to registered voters regardless of whether they voted. Uncollected funds would simply be added to the pot to be re-divvied the following cycle. Granted, this would encourage the type of fraud that would require increased verification of who is an eligible voter. by BlackGriffen on Tue Aug 19, 2014 at 12:31:50 AM PDT * [new] Thanks Phoebe (1+ / 0-) I voted Tuesday, May 6, 2014 because it is my right, my responsibility and because my parents moved from Alabama to Ohio to vote. Unfortunately, the republicons want to turn Ohio into Alabama. by a2nite on Tue Aug 19, 2014 at 02:21:17 AM PDT (1+ / 0-)* [new] Thank you for bringing this to light, it really explains alot by Mirthandirxiii on Tue Aug 19, 2014 at 06:32:15 AM PDT * [new] great perspective (1+ / 0-) This is a list of 76 universities for Rush Limbaugh that endorse global warming denial, racism, sexism, and GOP lies by broadcasting sports on over 170 Limbaugh radio stations. by certainot on Tue Aug 19, 2014 at 07:08:32 AM PDT * [new] This place is the American nightmare (2+ / 0-) Just a mindboggling diary. Thank you. Almost everything you do will seem insignificant, but it is most important that you do it. by The Termite on Tue Aug 19, 2014 at 08:15:50 AM PDT (2+ / 0-)* [new] Why are we surprised? America is a kleptocracy, from local government to congress. It's all the same model. Money is the reason for everything in what the Soviets used to call this 'decadent whorehouse amusement park.' Or maybe that was dialog from Red Dawn, no matter, it's still true. ; ) by kennrich2 on Tue Aug 19, 2014 at 10:01:55 AM PDT * [new] what are tallies of white jwalker killings by cop? (0+ / 0-) * Nationwide * across Missouri * in the County containing Ferguson * in Ferguson itself since there are something like 8 whites for every black in this country there ought to be eight times as many white jwalker killings by cop per year. If there isn't then there has to some tangible explanation like white people don't have legs so they can't get shot jwalking. by barleystraw on Tue Aug 19, 2014 at 10:06:40 AM PDT * [new] Think about it... (4+ / 0-) If Ferguson officials will go to these lengths to stop citizens from appearing in court at the appointed times, imagine what they must do to keep them away from the ballot box! Be pretty if you can, be witty if you must, but be gracious if it kills you...Elsie de Wolfe by Hilltop Mama on Tue Aug 19, 2014 at 10:07:02 AM PDT * [new] Given the racial makeup of the power structure, .. (3+ / 0-) ... it looks like they may have already cooked up an effective voter suppression paradigm. 'Get 'em disgusted' just might be the starting point. by Dfetzer926 on Tue Aug 19, 2014 at 12:05:27 PM PDT [ Parent ] * [new] They already have. (2+ / 0-) Considering the average number of bench warrants per household issued for unpaid tickets/failure to appear, there's a LOT of people who won't set foot in a polling place, either because they are felons or because they are fugitives. If your sole and entire rationale for doing something is 'It's not illegal.' then perhaps you should rethink doing it. by dcnblues on Tue Aug 19, 2014 at 01:20:46 PM PDT [ Parent ] (2+ / 0-)* [new] Great diary! Tipped and Recced! by kefauver on Tue Aug 19, 2014 at 10:58:13 AM PDT * [new] Here's hoping that (1+ / 0-) all whites who proclaim that things like this just don't happen any more, choke on these facts, especially the so-called liberal ones who try to make the argument that blacks are solely responsible for their lack of voice in America. by Lainie Rullo on Tue Aug 19, 2014 at 11:52:05 AM PDT * [new] What are the odds ... (1+ / 0-) ... that the procedural morass described in the Newsweek article is the tip of a larger RW conspiracy to introduce low-key but insidious discriminatory practices like this in many locations? It occurs to me to be easy to accomplish on an administrative (I.e., non-legislative) basis in places where the populace might be poorly equipped to 'fight the power.' Ferguson seems to fit that description. So do a lot of other places across the country. by Dfetzer926 on Tue Aug 19, 2014 at 11:58:06 AM PDT * [new] That's one more state (1+ / 0-) in which I'll never live, and do what I can to avoid visiting. That's pretty much everywhere south and east of Illinois for now. Proud DFH, emeritus by johnrhoffman on Tue Aug 19, 2014 at 12:10:53 PM PDT * [new] yet another reason to not trust fucking cops (1+ / 0-) cops know when what they're doing is about generating revenue rather than enforcing the law. Cops use the law as an excuse to bully people who can't fight back all the time. 'Stories about bacon should be uplifting' - Oberon by bnasley on Tue Aug 19, 2014 at 12:46:31 PM PDT * [new] I've heard Ferguson residents interviewed (3+ / 0-) say that people with traffic violations on their records can't even apply for work with the Ferguson Police Dep't. I don't know how serious the violations have to be to prevent application but, considering how lopsided the numbers are for black/white traffic stops there, that pretty much guarantees a segregated police force. One reporter said that a friend of his had been ticketed driving through Ferguson and when he went to traffic court the place was packed and his was the only white face in the room. If you can't be a good example, then you'll just have to be a horrible warning. - Catherine Aird by steveannie on Tue Aug 19, 2014 at 01:03:57 PM PDT * [new] People in prison on parole probation cannot vote (1+ / 0-) In Missouri, people in prison, on parole and on probation cannot vote. People with felony convictions can vote upon completion of sentence. by jqjacobs on Tue Aug 19, 2014 at 02:31:48 PM PDT * [new] The New Jim Crow (2+ / 0-) Jim Crow never died. Michelle Alexander documented this in her book on this issue. PBS did a terrific documentary on this about 3? yrs ago and it is on their website. I think it was titles Slavery by Another Name. This article/diary is a little vignette that begins to detail how racism and slavery still exist. Yes, Slavery. People kept poor, disenfranchised and useful only so long as they can be used for profit as in the prison industry and war. Except now that war has been getting increasingly mechanized, foot soldiers are not so needed. When this began to happen about 20 yrs ago, it was people of color who were eliminated, again just proving the point. If any benefits were to accrue, they would be reserved for white folk. This process has become a standard formula for the oppression of people. We can watch this happen to the Palestinians by Israel. I listen to those reports and I hear the same defensive propaganda that blames the victim over and over and makes laws that can only be seen as discriminatory and unequally punitive. by tamarque on Tue Aug 19, 2014 at 02:44:48 PM PDT * [new] I've seen (0+ / 0-) areas back that way that do the same and color made no difference. Maybe a little harsher on blacks, browns, but low income whites are walked on too. Standard procedure. Check out some red states and see if it isn't true in those also. by Rdr on Tue Aug 19, 2014 at 02:45:23 PM PDT * [new] So... lemme get this straight here??? (1+ / 0-) It seems that what we have here is a township of St. Louis county whos power structure is almost completely white and staffed by mostly whites and whos revenue source is greatly enhanced by court fees and fines which may possibly be even greater than the property tax revenues collected but the majority of citizens are black. That is slavery and abuse of law on every level. wow. Now that is fucked up. by Sojourns on Tue Aug 19, 2014 at 04:04:05 PM PDT * [new] Shoplifting (0+ / 0-) 'He might also have been arrested for shoplifting, assault and jaywalking' If it's him on the video, he SHOULD have been arrested for shoplifting - did you see how he pushed, intimidated and ultimately hit the guy? Not pretty. by dianeinca on Tue Aug 19, 2014 at 05:09:16 PM PDT * [new] As a native of St. Louis (3+ / 0-) I can tell you with confidence that structural racism is a part of the entire culture of the border south -- which includes Tennessee, Arkansas, Kentucky, Southern Illinois and Southern Indiana. I lived my childhood in both North St. Louis and later across the river in Granite City and Alton Illinois. Look at videos, many of them posted on youtube about East St. Louis or North St. Louis, Memphis or any other of the border south former cities. They are wastelands. Like Detroit wastelands filled with people who escaped the terror of the south to find better lives in the factories and plants in the midwest. What they got in return was abandonment. First abandonment by big business, then structural indifference and abandonment by the very civic governments that were supposed in theory, support and defend the economic structures that would help their communities thrive. Jim Crow didn't die, it just went through a 20th century transformation. Systemic racism is the issue.. Indiana has historically held the proud distinction of having the highest number of KKK members of anywhere in the union. Blackkjack Missouri was so proud of their mayor who was the Grand Dragon of the Missouri KKK that they elected to at least two terms in the 70's. Blackjack is a suburb of St. Louis. I can remember stories of people of color being harrassed and roughed up for being in a certain town after dark. In the 1970's. One kid was killed in a small Ozark town in the 70's. His crime? Riding a bike in the wrong neiighborhood after dark. I can well remember my grandmother poking her head through the curtains in her small town of Kennett as dusk fell, 'THere's a darkie out on the sidewalk, what is this town coming to!' she exclaimed. The Sons of the Confederacy, a hate group watched by the SPLC has a HQ office in St. Louis. Go to any website that talks about E. St. Louis or any 'ghetto' in the midwest and look at the comments. Not pretty. This isn't isolated to Ferguson, it isn't even isolated to Missouri. The state of Illinois' absolute neglect of East St. Louis is near criminal. This ugly side people on the outside see is called 'seedy' 'awful' or whatever. No, its home to people, people who deserve respect, people who deserve the basic infrastructure of a justice system that works, law enforcement that protects them and not imprisons them, public funding that comes to them; to their community for their benefit. No, its not seedy, its criminal and the offenders are the ones running the joint. It needs to stop. I can't begin to say how glad I am that there's a light shining on this, but I'm afraid that once the Ferguson incidents die down people turn away and forget it all, again. by BlueinNH on Tue Aug 19, 2014 at 08:03:39 PM PDT (1+ / 0-)* [new] Too bad the national media doesn't hear this story. Unfortunately the kind of bigotry and stupidity that feeds groups like the Tea Party is alive and well. Your comment does exemplary job of ripping the cover off this fetid, rotting culture of racism that still exists in 2014. by kennrich2 on Tue Aug 19, 2014 at 09:53:50 PM PDT [ Parent ] * [new] When you get convicted you lose your vote! (1+ / 0-) Hardly anyone can vote there!!! They arrest them to get them police records for felonies and 'Welllaa'!!! by 61849jim on Tue Aug 19, 2014 at 08:06:26 PM PDT * [new] Limited to Missouri? (2+ / 0-) I don't think so. Citizens must demand that this means of 'funding' cease. After reading this what shocks me is that it took this long for the residents to say 'enough is enough'. It should have happened long ago and needs to continue until the disparity of treatment ceases. by Devolved on Tue Aug 19, 2014 at 09:16:10 PM PDT * [new] Such a brilliant diary and research here (3+ / 0-) Totally revelatory and eye-opening. Tip & Rec. And I will think about this at length. 'That nice, but how do we keep it from going back to business as USUAL?' - Elon James White on Ferguson, MO by mahakali overdrive on Tue Aug 19, 2014 at 10:36:00 PM PDT (0+ / 0-)* [new] If Michael Brown was such a 'thug', where's his rap sheet? by Swatmacher on Tue Aug 19, 2014 at 11:33:34 PM PDT * [new] The police are not your friends (0+ / 0-) Their primary job objective is making arrests and issuing citations. The ones with the least concience and morality will run up the best numbers even if theyhave to invent a crime to charge. Is it any wonder we have police departments like Ferguson? by flatmotor on Tue Aug 19, 2014 at 11:39:14 PM PDT * [new] 2 arrest warrants per adult per year (1+ / 0-) 24,532 arrest warrants in a town with a population of 21,203 in 2010... (shrank by 6% since 2000) that comes to 1.15 arrests Per person per year (or 1.19 if you presume that population shrinkage continued). So more than one arrest per person per year... If you only count those 18-65, then it goes up to almost 2 arrest warrants per person per year. With numbers like that, the right to vote is going to almost evaporate. The next thing to investigate is the percentage of arrest warrants that are for blacks vs whites vs other races. by darkonc on Tue Aug 19, 2014 at 11:53:00 PM PDT * [new] 'Well, one of the fruits of disparate policing' (1+ / 0-) Strange Fruit, as Billie Holiday might have sung. The last part, about disenfranchising voters, was what stood out in this diary for me. by Whamadoodle on Wed Aug 20, 2014 at 12:12:27 AM PDT * [new] Chris Hayes sort of broke this story (1+ / 0-) On the first day of his stay in Ferguson, a couple of Chris Hayes guests actually joked about this practice, like they were so resigned to it joking was all they could do. One of them had been stopped at random and ticketed for not having his driver's license on his person. They also noted that people can end up losing a job over having to make court appearances, and could end up having to chose between losing their job or driving to work with a suspended license. Tactics of this sort were very consciously used in the past to keep a minority community economically suppressed, so there is no real reason to think this isn't part of a pattern of oppression, not just exploitation or profiling. The guy in the news who was charged with bleeding on an officer was picked up for an unpaid ticket that had been issued to someone else who happened to have his name. Much of the seemingly stupid things the police are doing now to stir up trouble are obviously being done to cover this scam. Regardless of what happens to the cop who shot Michael Brown, if this practice remains in place, the powers that be in Ferguson will have won. Cracker(krăk´ẽr ) Someone, usually but not exclusively white, whose world view is primarily formed by consensual validation as opposed to observed fact, hence 'cracker' for someone brittle, insubstantial and lacking in nutritive value. by outis2 on Thu Aug 21, 2014 at 02:35:49 PM PDT * [new] This is nothing new... (0+ / 0-) Blacks and the poor (I increasingly see it as classism not just racism), have been getting disenfranchised in this manner forever. I see a lot more people walking or riding bicycles in the last few years. All sorts of factors make it harder for poor in the South. Businesses are spread over a larger land area than up north. Public transportation is marginal at best. So called 'right to work' laws make it easy to get fired if your name shows up in the newspaper in the arrest reports. Doesn't matter if you're guilty or not, unless you have the means to initiate a civil suit, which is unlikely to go anywhere, you're just out of a job. If you're unable to pay your auto insurance premium, all of a sudden your drivers license is suspended. You might have had multiple vehicles and dropped the insurance on all but one. Again, your drivers license is suspended if any of the insured vehicles were registered. Of course if they were insured, they were most likely registered. You get no notice of this. The first indication is when you get stopped and the police run a check on your license. So more fines and you have no way to look for work other than on foot or bicycle. If you go to court and get probation, normally one of the requirements is having a job and often community service. W/o having transportation the chances of violating probation increase astronomically. Especially if the probation period is a year or longer. Probation violation turns you into a felon. If you're sick you can be fired w/o recourse. Remember, this is a 'right to work' state. I could go on and on but my head is starting to hurt. Anyone notice how many new dollar stores, cash for gold, payroll loan, and pawn shops there seem to be? The last time I looked WalMarts sales were down for the third quarter in a row. Of course their profits still continued to increase. http://www.huffingtonpost.com/... http://www.creators.com/... http://www.alternet.org/... This is just immoral and inhuman IMO. Just makes me sick to my stomach. Another thing that has interested me, is why is Ferguson getting so much attention? Why have the protests lasted so long? This is nothing new. I've been talking to a friend at work and she had the same question. Apparently we're not the only ones. http://www.thenation.com/... by hankY on Fri Aug 22, 2014 at 02:21:40 PM PDT * [new] What is a minority (0+ / 0-) To be clear, the 'minority' population of Ferguson has a huge majority of the votes. They need to look in the mirror and accept responsibility for what exists in Ferguson. No excuses. Period. White liberals offering paternalistic advice or creative excuses don't help. Accountability - it is more than just a word. by NavyPatriot on Sat Aug 23, 2014 at 03:38:24 AM PDT PERMALINK Subscribe or Donate to support Daily Kos. DIARY RECOMMENDED BY RECOMMENDED BY PHOEBE LOOSINHOUSE In 2013, Ferguson gave out 10,000 more arrest warrants than people in Ferguson by weinenkel 106/106 New 209 Recs Krystal Ball justifiably slams Democrats as they cede values to Rand Paul by Egberto Willies 512/512 New 217 Recs Secret recording shows McConnell making big promises to big donors if GOP takes Senate by Laura Clawson 118/118 New 127 Recs Cops who lie, the erosion of trust, and despair by RationalThoughtProcess 223/223 New 324 Recs Bernie Sanders 'Gearing Up' for White House Bid by Mikesco 678/678 New 454 Recs California Governor Jerry Brown Wants to Steal My Home by ammasdarling 357/357 New 122 Recs Bárðarbunga: 'It Depends On Whether The Conduit Breaks Into Askja's Caldera' (updated 2x) by Rei 122/122 New 549 Recs 'When you fit the description' by Jen Hayden 200/200 New 507 Recs My Book is Finished! by RepackRider 15/15 New 14 Recs Top U.N. Human Rights Chief: 'There are many parts of the U.S. where apartheid's flourishing' by bobswern 49/49 New 138 Recs Next PHOEBE LOOSINHOUSE'S TAGS No current results. PHOEBE LOOSINHOUSE'S BLOGROLL No current results. MOST SHARED Greg Abbott chickens out of debating Wendy Davis, lies about it by Laura Clawson 1205 128 Sam Brownback names Koch Employee to Kansas Supreme Court Bench by tmservo433 483 2 GOP swears it's a coincidence Benghazi 'investigation' will keep going until the 2016 campaign by Laura Clawson 1465 76 Kentucky press examines just how cozy McConnell is with the Kochs by Joan McCarter 2155 105 Ferguson Update: Missouri police officer resigns after pointing rifle at Ferguson protesters by Seattle Socialist 1310 20 Browse Tags CIVIL RIGHTS COMMUNITY CONGRESS CULTURE ECONOMY EDUCATION ELECTIONS ENERGY ENVIRONMENT HEALTH CARE INTERNATIONAL LABOR LAW MEDIA META NATIONAL SECURITY SCIENCE TRANSPORTATION WHITE HOUSE © Kos Media, LLC Site content may be used for any purpose without explicit permission unless otherwise specified 'Kos' and 'Daily Kos' are registered trademarks of Kos Media, LLC Privacy Policy Daily Kos Network Daily Kos Comics Elections DKTV RSS Mother Talkers Street Prophets Congress Matters About Masthead History Writers Frequently Asked Questions Endorsements Advertise Advertising Overview Visits and Other Stats for Advertisers Store Shirts Contact Media Inquiries General Inquiries Jobs